Will suspension affect merit aid offers?

Parents Forum
101

<p>The question on the Common App is unambiguous. Colleges are asking for information directly from students, unmediated by their high schools. The question doesn’t ask if the school records have been changed; it asks if something happened. If it did, the student should say so, and it probably won’t be regarded as a big deal at all. Or the student can lie and say nothing happened, but they shouldn’t fool themselves into believing that they don’t understand the question - it’s plenty clear.</p>

<p>This situation seems similar to the score choice issue with the College Board. It would be trivially easy for the College Board to mark a score report as complete or incomplete. The College Board has chosen not to do that. So any student can choose not to send scores to an institution that requires all scores, and the College Board won’t rat them out. In this situation, the school is saying it won’t rat the student out if she chooses to lie. But the student still has a choice.</p>

102

<p>I guess detention is considered a lower level of “trouble” than probation?</p>

103

<p>^^^of course it is! This is not rocket science! HS students, unless they are 21, cannot legally consume alcohol and buy pot-laced brownies, and if they do, and get caught, there are consequences.</p>

104

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<p>Detentions are not reported, Suspensions, removal dismissals and expulsions are reported. In our school system the disciplinary system is separate from the grading system (the suspensions, dismissals, expulsions will never show up on the transcript. However, we also give students/parents copies of the disciplinary report along with their transcript.</p>

<p>By the same token, we could never suspend a student with out a paper trail (the infraction would have to be listed in OARS. Serious infractions (like the example by the OP) would be recommended for a superintendent suspension , which could be anywhere from 10 days to a year, safety transfer, involuntary transfer, voluntary transfer, expulsion (student and parent must attend a hearing and every thing is documented).</p>

<p>Keep in mind that even though prom is usually off school grounds, it is a school function. When something happens at prom, the student is best served having it handled by the school and DOE code of conduct vs. contacting the police. This is the main reason that high schools are strongly advised not to allow non-NYC DOE students (even graduates) to attend prom, because if something happens involving a non-student, you must contact the police.</p>

<p>THe school report on the common app states the following</p>

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<p>IMO yes, because probation or suspension would generally not be considered for the type of infraction that would bring detention. It IS an interesting question though.</p>

106

<p>sorry, snorkelmom, I really did not know. Our school did not use detention as far as I am aware for anything other than academic help. I know other schools give detentions out for late library books.</p>

<p>Edit:
Thanks for the clarifications re: detentions everyone!</p>

107

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<p>No disrespect intended. I was just trying to inject a little humor, and well you ARE being judgmental. </p>

<p>Actually, being respectful is part of the College Confidential Terms of Service</p>

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<p>I’m just saying. Cheers. :-)</p>

108

<p>There are schools that might consider this but, honestly, given that this wasn’t reported to the police, I’m going to recommend taking a deep breath, forgiving your daughter who I’m sure is terribly anxious, and moving forward. </p>

<p>Things happen on the way to college admissions. A class comes up that leaves a great student with a less than stellar grade. An interview goes awry. A standardized test score doesn’t match their potential. They get mono and miss a lot of classes. Too many kids at their high school apply to the same college. Too many kids from across the nation with a similar set of interests apply to the school she wants. They get drunk at their prom. Just look ahead. Focus on how wonderful she is – and what she can offer colleges.</p>

<p>I think the advice given above to explain the incident on the common app is good. Keep it simple. A healthy, balanced, thoughtful perspective will make her seem mature. This incident should not define her – and, unless she would find this helpful personally/emotionally, I don’t think she needs to start speaking out against alcohol. Perspective is important.</p>

<p>More concretely, I’d do the following:</p>

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<li><p>Perhaps you need to apply to more schools than you planned to in order to cast a broader net. This may mean that she works hard over the summer to get essays written early. Many of us have to do this for other reasons.</p></li>
<li><p>Consider whether she should mention this in interviews or in exchanges with her admissions reps, especially if she has a good relationship with any of them. Have a strategy in advance. Again, this shouldn’t be the focus of an interview but if you note it on the common app, your daughter (not you), could say something like: “I made a mistake my junior year. I drank for the first time while attending my prom and was suspended for a few days because of it. I’m terribly embarrassed this happened and understand this was wrong; it doesn’t reflect who I am or how I usually behave at all. I just wanted you to know that.” Ask others for guidance on this, though. </p></li>
<li><p>Have your daughter build good relationships with her counselor and/or a couple of teachers. When they write their recommendations, ask them if in addition to focusing on her academic potential, could they also speak to her character in general.</p></li>
<li><p>But, most importantly, focus on what an amazing set of accomplishments she’s racked up – and what terrific schools she’s likely to attend.</p></li>
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<p>If your daughter is healthy and does not have an alcohol problem, then relax. This process is exhausting and awfully stressful. There are bumps along the way, as there are in all aspects of life. Just keep moving forward.</p>

<p>Caveat: If your daughter is dealing with ongoing issues with alcohol or peer pressure, then those are clearly the bigger concerns here. And, I wouldn’t even be thinking about the rest at the moment.</p>

109

<p>The common app is NOT talking about detentions. I’d put money on that wager.
These actions could include, but are not limited to: probation, suspension, removal, dismissal, or expulsion from the institution</p>

<p>Mini the response to what you don’t need to report (because it is expunged etc.) references CRIMINAL charges. If they are expunged, sealed, etc. the common app says you do not need to report which is legally correct. This is why it is important to call a lawyer if a young person is criminally charged. The OPs D was NOT criminally charged so only the first question regarding the suspension is the hot-point of discussion.</p>

110

<p>The Common Ap question that I quote (the first question) doesn’t ask at ALL about criminal charges (that’s another question entirely.) The first question clearly states they are looking actions taken by the SCHOOL - “Has the applicant ever been found responsible for a disciplinary violation at your school from the 9th grade (or the international equivalent) forward, whether related to academic misconduct or behavioral misconduct, that resulted in a disciplinary action?” It offers no exceptions for “expunging”, “wiping clean”, “in confidence”, “not on the transcript”, “won’t say anything”, yadda yadda yadda.</p>

<p>The second question is about the criminal justice system and has no relation to the first. And they say if the offense in the criminal justice system is expunged, you don’t need to report the criminal justice offense..</p>

<p>I don’t understand what’s so difficult to get.</p>

111

<p>OP- your daughter will go to college and be successful. It may not be the college with the most generous merit scholarship, but she will go to college. I suggest that she broaden the range of schools that she applies to with this incident in mind and maybe a few more than she would have planned. Your state colleges & universities and privates that offer guaranteed merit for her stats if that is important to you. The common app can be customized depending on the schools she applies to and she can write a very compelling explanation for the suspension. Or you can follow the advice here and pretend it didn’t happen and worry every day that someone slips up and the word gets out. Be grateful that the police weren’t involved and you have to deal with a misdemeanor charge, etc. Yes, I do believe that the school is trying to make it easier for your daughter to move on and put this behind her, but sometimes the public schools are just making it easier on themselves. It’s a lot of red tape and unfortunately this is a very common infraction.</p>

112

<p>My friend’s son has a situation that they are really grappling with. The kid got caught writing a note to another kid about getting their hands on some alcohol. The note was intercepted and a parent conference was held. No suspension, no detention. The parents met with GC last week in preparation for the college process. Student is finishing junior year. The GC told the parents that he believes the son should be barred from college trips with the high school because he is involved in the partying lifestyle and that she will have to speak to his character in her recommendations because she felt he was trying to corrupt another student. </p>

<p>In my son’s school, detention is given for uniform violations. So I wonder if a kid who gets detention for wearing the wrong tie should report it on the common app.</p>

113

<p>sybbie, if I am reading that correctly, the school is not requred to answer yes “if the CRIMINAL adjudication or conviction has been expunged, sealed,
annulled, pardoned, destroyed, erased, impounded, or otherwise ordered to be kept confidential by a court”. </p>

<p>It did not offer that same opportunity to the academic or behavioral misconduct question. Did I read that correctly?</p>

114

<p>z,</p>

<p>Detentions are not reported and are not part of the disciplinary history on ATS. In order to transfer to some schools, they request disciplinary reports. My school reviews disciplinary reports as part of the 9th grade admissions process (yes, I have recommended that we not admit a student due to their disciplinary record -a lot of other schools do the same thing).</p>

<p>Vlines,</p>

<p>NO, we do not have to report. We do however have to document visits from probation parole officers just like we document ACS visits. </p>

<p>However, should one attend law school, they must report (expunged, youthful offender records) in the law school application and for admission to the bar.</p>

<p>m3b,</p>

<p>the question is asked on both the student application and the school report.</p>

115

<p>I was referring to sybbies post # 104 that gave the examples of the questions that the school is required to answer, not the questions that the student has to answer on the common ap. Sorry if I was not clear.</p>

<p>Sybbie- you do not have to report criminal. But you still have to report academic and behavioral, correct? Or do you have the option not to report that too? I did not see that on post #104.</p>

116

<p>vlines, that is how I read it. There isn’t an explicit “out” for school discipline. But again, no one gives a “rip” about school uniforms, bad parking jobs etc. etc. some of which strict schools use a pre or post short detention to “punish.” </p>

<p>Zooser, your friend’s son’s GC sounds like a very malicious person.</p>

<p>Sybbie, how would the school know the outcome of a plea? How could anyone in a school system check yes or no without clear knowledge of what the court ordered decision would be? They might possibly get a copy of the original police report if the school has a cozy relationship but after that the school would not be party to anything the prosecutor or court system would do…at least around my neck of the woods.</p>

117

<p>Yes, we report academic behavior (which you can get suspended for). Case in point, the kids were reported for the Stuyvesant cheating from last spring</p>

<p>We do not have to report criminal behavior that we do not know about. However, if we know about it we can report it (unless it has been expunged, sealed, etc).</p>

118

<p>So, if we’re really going to parse language here couldn’t we use the phrase" at your school" for some wiggle room? She was at the prom. Don’t yell at me. Clearly it’s best for the op’s daughter if this does not have to get reported. Also, if she had been detained by policy and gotten an alcohol violation it could be sealed and it never would have to be reported. So, doesn’t this mean that the more serious offenses are often swept under the rug?</p>

119

<p>It’s still a suspension from school though, no?</p>

120

<p>Momofthree, the kid in question is very unlikeable, which sometimes has consequences. I don’t think he was trying to corrupt anyone and they were talking about getting drunk without having actually done it at the time, but the kid is a big, giant brat. I don’t know what the parents will do.</p>