<p>@OP: I actually know someone personally whose older child went on to BU after PA, and yet they sent their two other kids to PA as well. Were they sold on the value and potential of a PA education and/or brand name effect, or were they determined to learn the lessons of their old child and “make things better” for their other children for college admissions purpose? Perhaps a little of both? Realistically, many parents would understandably hesitate if they knew <em>for sure</em> their otherwise Ivy bound child would end up in a college “2 tiers lower”, but here’s the thing - I believe the top BS do a tremendous job in “placing” their graduates in top colleges, if you can see beyond HYPMS or Ivies and define top colleges as say top 25 universities and top 15 LACs (as defined in matriculationstats.org). Really, it’s a “crap shoot” for those few tipsy top colleges anywhere. Why would you bet on it and sacrifice the chance for four years of great education in one of the best high schools in the world? As someone earlier pointed out, A&E, unlike magnate schools, have a much more diverse student body. Students have different strengths and different goals, which shows in their matriculation list as well. If your kid is serious about academics and generally have the goal of attending a best college, he should be fine in the end. Now, I am not going to lie to you. As others have pointed out, if you define college success as getting in the few with an admit rate of single digit, the chances of you being disappointed are high. But, if you truely see the value of the education/experience/life long impact you are getting from A&E, you’d agree the possible disadvantage, if any, you get in being admitted to the few “crapshoot” colleges would be a worthy cost.</p>
<p>@Rose2014 - BU refers to Boston University; I believe the OP chose it since it’s a private college in the same region as the Ivy schools. BCs appears to be a typo; the poster probably meant BSs (boarding schools).</p>
<p>Exie,</p>
<p>Honestly? </p>
<p>I understand that we all tend to generalize from our experiences. But there is a difference between doing that and assuming that our experiences are somehow the gospel truth that represents a new standard by which all other parents should be judged. </p>
<p>Not every kid will get into an Ivy League school. But that doesn’t mean that children should not aspire to get into a top college or that some parents should not properly take college matriculation into account when determining whether to send their child to prep school. </p>
<p>Let’s not lose sight of the fact that the OP is a parent with a child who is a top student at a day school with a 25 percent matriculation rate to elite colleges. Being concerned about college matriculation makes the OP a prudent parent, not an “Ivy wannabe.” </p>
<p>For the OP, the issue is not using prep school as a “stepping stone” to the Ivy League. It is whether attending a top prep school will hurt what may be their child’s otherwise promising chance to attend an elite college by lowering their child’s class rank. Again, elite colleges do not only include the Ivy League. </p>
<p>No one should presume to suggest that any child should “stay home” because the campus would be more fun if it were filled with children from families who “see the process more holistically.” We should welcome diversity of thought, not discourage it. </p>
<p>The great irony is that those who preach the importance of fit are sometimes the most dogmatic in their definition of fit. There can be no single definition of fit because each family has different needs that arise from distinct circumstances. Hence, less rigidity and fewer for “Oh goodness sakes” would be helpful.</p>
<p>JMilton - </p>
<p>I reiterate - Good grief. And my comments stand. You don’t get to see the “retention rate” of those 25% who sprouted wings and went to IVY heaven. Not good press for schools if those students don’t “stay” at the school. OR if some graduate and go straight to jobs as Starbucks Barristas.</p>
<p>You also won’t always get that those stats might not be 25% of the school, but several students with multiple offers. Just as schools like to brag about combined scholarships without revealing that a large chunk was achieved by a handful. Or only reveal their “middle 50%” in college entrance exams. Stats are meant to make people salivate. Common sense was created to help people choose based on best fit given available options. That might be an IVY - it might not.</p>
<p>I also said, quite clearly, that college choice is a personal matter for a family. But don’t for one minute think that colleges can’t see or smell the families who are looking at prestige as a primary motivator and not looking at whether there is a genuine reason for why the student belongs there. And for many - there is a sense that somehow going to an IVY will endow their child with magical powers that they somehow didn’t have before. And often end up empty handed - or arrive on campus and find themselves odd person out because they so focused on what they feel entitled to “get” that they forget part of the process is what they can contribute.</p>
<p>Certainly I get enough inquiries from parents whose students scored perfectly on SAT and have straight A’s and want to know how long before I send them a golden ticket to MIT. Because that’s all that’s involved right? Stats?</p>
<p>Only that’s not true. Which is why these precious poohs get turned down and someone with flaws gets in. Because schools have so many applicants they can choose their own class based on fit, contribution, and just generally nice people without compromising academic quality. So they don’t have to “put up” with people who want them just to have another feather in their cap. Or who - I repeat - don’t understand that walking onto campus doesn’t mean they will benefit from the perks and status.</p>
<p>I’ve talked to students through tears, had to tell parents to stand down, and coached kids who transferred from one school to another. I don’t think my view is the final say on any process, but I’ve been around the block enough to know this isn’t a black and white issue. That there are too many gray areas to talk about “chances.” </p>
<p>But I’ve also seen too many people start from the wrong place. Not what does their child envision for a future - but instead they think “If we get him/her into an IVY all other things will fall in place.”</p>
<p>Good luck with that.</p>
<p>I talk a lot about fit because I see too many student fulfilling parent dreams and not their own. I talk about fit because frankly - I know how those families are viewed even after they are admitted - and it’s often not favorable because no amount of counseling will get them to change their trajectory and they’re often a pain in the assets to work with because of the rigidity. </p>
<p>So back to the original point - the OP wants to know if their child’s chances are lowered by going to a boarding school. I want to know why the OP thinks their child has any chance of going in the first place given that 75% of the school doesn’t matriculate to an IVY? And I want to know why - with better college counseling not tied to impressing some donor (which is common at local private schools) - the OP doesn’t understand his/her child might actually end up at a college that is a better fit for their future success by looking more broadly than name and prestige?</p>
<p>But to each his/her own. The OP wants to know if boarding school is a good investment and if IVY is the end goal then no - it isn’t. The child should stay home and chase the family’s IVY dream so that another family that would benefit from boarding school and - frankly - contribute more to the campus culture - can have the spot they deserve.</p>
<p>GO BIG? Sure. Why not. To each his/her own Just have a back-up plan in case the alternative is “stay home”. Because those parents who look at the matriculation stats never seem to conceive of the fact that it might not include their own child despite how “talented” they are. </p>
<p>Long odds are better left for Vegas, IMHO.</p>
<p>Wow. So much negativity. So much bitterness. I don’t know you and you don’t know me. All I can say is you are pretty off target on this one.</p>
<p>ExieMITAlum, are you even a parent?</p>
<p>If you ask such a question, it usually comes back right at you.</p>
<p>Use Search function to find other posts by members.
I didn’t read any negativity from exie’s post perhaps because being used to exie’s tone after having read hundreds of valuable posts by exie.</p>
<p>Same question here - who is this person? Who gave her the rights to talk to others in that manner? So I did a little digging into the older posts. Well, it turns out this person seems to be an “all in one”. She attended Exeter decades ago then went on to MIT from there. The Exeter experience apparently was a “mixed bag”, and it left a bad smell in her mouth even after so many years. Oddly however, she claims to be acting as an Exeter alumni interviewer. She’s also an MIT alumni interview, one with superpower like a hunting dog who would always see beyond stats and hunt down those who puruse prestige instead of “fit”. And yes, she’s a parent of a boarding school student, who was turned down by Exeter despite the double hooks (she’s also URM I think). Many of this person’s posts are condescening and irritating, unnecessarily aggresive, yet there seems to be a good following on this forum. (So be careful - if you are not on her side, you may be on the wrong side of this forum) </p>
<p>A new feature about CC I have just figured out is the “ignore” function. You can ignore a certain poster and all her posts will be suppressed to you. Try it out.</p>
<p>Thanks a lot, Alden0611.</p>
<p>Exie,</p>
<p>You criticize people looking to Ivies for “just another feather in their cap”. But look at your handle! I find it ironic how you conspicuously wear your “feathers” for the world to see. </p>
<p>Also, your comment: I get enough inquiries from parents whose students scored perfectly on SAT and have straight A’s and want to know how long before I send them a golden ticket to MIT</p>
<p>Aren’t you <em>just</em> an alumni interviewer for your school? If so, you certainly have an inflated sense of your contribution to the admission decision. Even for alumni interviewers the admissions process at MIT is kept very opaque (and rightly so). You arent even close to an admissions gatekeeper for MIT, so I am always amused when you portray yourself as such on CC. (BTW, I interview for MIT too)</p>
<p>Also, I will admit it. One of the biggest reasons I sent my DC to an acronym boarding school is that I am trying to increase DCs odds of getting into a HYPSM. I never viewed it as a guarantee, but theres no question DC has a better chance of it happening at the acronym school than at the local school. Oh, and even though DC is chasing the IVY dream DC is THRIVING on campus academically, socially, and EC-wise and contributing immensely to the campus culture.</p>
<p>Reading the original post again, 'what happens to the kids who fail… ’
I don’t know if anyone can answer that question before all is said and done, i.e. in 40 years. </p>
<p>The same question can be asked to CCers in HYPMS. What happens to those who graduate <2.5 GPA who wanted to go to medical school before HYPMS?
Is all lost?</p>
<p>One specific reason I’m considering BS is because I want my DC to experience ‘failure’ and develop resilience from it. Having been to a university with class full of valedictorians and taught by valedictorian professors, I feel that humbling experience may be better at age 14 than at age 18. I don’t know actually.
If we get no package on M10, it will be a failure but would still be a valuable lesson. </p>
<p>The question of 'would it have been better professionally and personally thriving at a lower-tier univ. than surviving at bottom half at a HYPMS?
Was it worth it? Although I feel generally successful and happy where I am, I still do ask that question 25 years later and don’t have an answer.</p>
<p>It’s all what you make of it, not where you are.</p>
<p>For the record - the moderators and a number of frequent flyer parents know who I am and - for the record I’m still actively work with the Admissions councils at both schools.</p>
<p>Having said that - a modicum of research would have revealed I’m a parent who has said I would repeat the experience in a heart beat. And that my love of Exeter doesn’t preclude me from commenting about the flaws the school is now actively addressing or that I’m enamored with my daughter’s current school for attributes I asked Exeter to adopt. But that’s not the issue. Fit and realistic expectations for incoming families is what we are addressing. I know of students who matriculated to E and then dropped out. Went in qualified but underestimated the work, or didn’t take “fit” into account because they chased prestige and some magic potion that would turn them into a silk purse instead of considering whether they would enjoy the culture. For instance, the cultural and academic atmosphere at Andover is not like Exeter. Nor are either like Deerfield or Taft or Hotchkiss or Groton or (fill in the blanks). Which is why so many took great pains to talk about “hidden” gems.</p>
<p>I do remember facing “tirades” when I revealed our daughter chose a different school than mine. I listened as newbie parents spoke of “second tier” and Go Big or Go Home and then asked for advice when their heartbroken students failed to matriculate to any school at all. Or asked about transfers when I suggested our daughter chose a school that was nurturing and they attended a school that was more “sink or swim”</p>
<p>Having said that my comments mirror similar posts from other “experienced” boarding school grads and parents who don’t have to speculate about Exeter and Andover (and many other schools) because we’ve lived it. And I remember the snobby looks I got during my daughter’s interview that suggested we were both beneath the other “Wall Street” types sitting in the room. Wouldn’t even respond to a simple hello. That is until the interviewer came to get my daughter, hugged her, inquired about my sibling (also an alum) and asked if I was coming back on committee after my daughter got through the cycle. Suddenly those same parents who remind me of OP wanted to get me coffee and pick my brain. So I’ve seen it on both sides. And it’s not attractive. So why not get OP on the right foot now before she shoots herself in it?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>This person’s comments - for an Adcom - is a red flag. I’ve been honest on the boards that when I hear these things from parents during college and boarding school interviews I (and many others) flag their files. Because the goals aren’t realistic in a time when college counselors and Admissions officers are trying to mediate expectations BEFORE the student applies and long afterward. There is a naked desperation and need for status that is considered unattractive. It’s like the old saying “If you have to ask the price you can’t afford it.” If you insist you only want IVY you likely won’t get it. Because the effort to obtain it tends to center around only publicly known activities (grades, scores) leaving the student lacking in the attributes the schools are really looking for. </p>
<p>The “drama” of these families is often not limited to applications but continues to haunt the staff once the child is on campus. Demanding, entitled, snobbish. Sometimes, but not always, the attitude also shows up in the student. Although, more often than not, it can also be the opposite - unable to function, immature, inexperienced, unable to deal with failure after so many years of being “the best” at their local school. With so many students to choose from who are equally qualified - why admit those students even if they can pay full tuition? (Although if you can donate a building or two I rescind my comments - some top flight schools will take your kid even if they’re a brat.)</p>
<p>Parents come with unrealistic expectations - about college enhancement, and their own child’s chances. This person clearly believes that her child has a guaranteed spot at an IVY if he stays at his current school. That doesn’t jive with the idea that 75% of his peers DO NOT go to an Ivy. The OP doesn’t explain if the IVY track is commensurate with their child’s interests or abilities. They also then cite schools such as Boston University as an examples of a failure. I doubt the alum would agree with the assessment. And UNLESS the student plans to start a business, he may end up working for one of those successful “failed” alum who did just that.</p>
<p>Parents like the OP often sabotage their children during application time and are left with nothing. A cautionary tale if the child stays at the current school and applies to college. They’re not any more tolerant and have equally large piles of qualified students. They’re looking for a reason to say “no” if only to weed down the pile.</p>
<p>So take it for what you will. Many lurk and look for a balanced approach. I have said if you ONLY want IVY that’s a personal family choice. But be prepared to be left holding a bag filled with nothing. Too many other people want the same thing and have better attitudes at admissions time. </p>
<p>To those who suddenly popped up with a few posts and claim to have read my body of work (much of which is not available since older ones are deleted over time) – You don’t have to like my opinions but they are grounded in more than just speculation. You might try the same. Don’t ask for an opinion if you only want to hear erroneous facts that reinforce an existing belief.</p>
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<p>@Payn4ward
That is such a healthy attitude. I suspect your child will do well going forward and those are the attributes boarding schools covet in terms of approach to BS applications and college. I wish I could show you the admissions “curve” at my college. It would surprise people on who is selected. Sometimes being the “underdog” at a hard school is a plus in admissions. Those kids work harder and “do” understand failure is not a setback but a stepping stone on the journey.</p>
<p>Good luck. I do hope you get the “package” on M10. You’d be an asset as a parent on any campus.</p>
<p>From what I’ve observed on this forum, Exie has one of the most balanced views of this whole process, and she speaks from experience. Our cultural obsession with status and brand names has translated into education, and our kids are paying the price. The perception that someone is smarter because they went to a school with “prestige” is a very narrow one. When I was in graduate school, I was required to teach two classes: one required submissions for admission, and the other was a lottery. In the first instance, it was a challenge to find students who were interesting/qualified enough to fill the seminar; in the second, some of the kids who sat in the front row and did all the work were so boring, it was hard to teach them. The kids who stood out were the ones that weren’t afraid to be themselves, they made mistakes and learned from them, and ultimately emerged having discovered strengths they never knew they had. They were risk takers, and resilient, they dug deep and they achieved results that built their confidence, which changed their understanding of who they were, and what they might become. I’m still in touch with two of these kids, one of whom (caught cheating, and suspended from this (IVY) for a year) is now, a philanthropist in a third world country, a TED fellow, etc. The other, after stumbling some, has become a highly sought- after advocate and champion for creative people, and makes his living encouraging them to use their talents to their fullest – he both believes and is an example of a successful life, lived outside the box. </p>
<p>Boarding school – I went for six years – made me a stronger and more independent person, and expanded my view of the world; I also made lifelong friends who have enriched my life and continue to do so – that’s why I spent this fall driving my kid around looking at schools – to offer him options and opportunities he won’t get at home. A big name school may change how other people perceive him, but a smaller, quieter environment might offer more guidance and specialized attention – there’s no right answer. Also, the child who goes away in ninth grade may have different needs in eleventh – another argument for a larger school. More importantly, we must nurture and support our children and embrace them for who they are – there’s too much anxiety in a culture focused on “results.” too much energy invested in trying to control them, not enough respect or value for the process, the journey, the sorrows, the joys and triumphs, the steps and the lessons learned along the way, these too can be celebrated and acknowledged, regardless of the outcome.</p>
<p>OP - Brooks is such a wonderful school: top facility, caring community, beautiful campus in a convenient and charming New England town. Its the best fit for my DC.
Reply #1 - Amen to that!
Reply #2 - Isnt Brooks amazing? You are such a wonderful parent with your DCs best interests at heart!</p>
<p>OP - Andover is such a wonderful school: top facility, caring community, beautiful campus in a convenient and charming New England town. Its the best fit for my DC.
Reply #1 - What a snob!
Reply #2 - Why are you so obsessed with brand and prestige?</p>
<p>^ lol :). </p>
<p>Also Exie, was your daughter accepted to Exeter?</p>
<p>Folks, my bet is the useless posts aimed at attacking Exie don’t bother her one bit, but I for one appreciate Exie’s posts and I do not appreciate attacks against her or anyone for that matter. We’re all in this together, whether a first time applicant to bs, current bs student/parent, or simply one who has gone through the process and wants to give back. Regardless of what you think of one’s post, before you hit enter, ask yourself if what you type is hateful, condescends, or attacks another human being. If it is specifically about a “person” or addressing a “person” as opposed to a bs topic, there is a pretty good chance that the post is simply an attack or written to harm another. If it is, why type it? </p>
<p>Everyone here has their own views on the way things are, should be, etc. Many come here for information. Some information is better than other information. It’s fair to throw in your input on a subject, provide your feedback, ask questions, and provide answers. However, when did it become ok to simply write a post attacking someone? When did it become ok to start writing hateful stuff toward an individual or one’s family? If you don’t like or agree with someone’s assessment, then find a “polite” way to disagree and move on, or simply refrain from posting if you can’t do it with decency and respect. You can still be respectful and decent, even without agreeing with someone. Some of the posts I am reading are disturbing. All I ask is that folks think about what they are writing and determine whether they have attacked someone or are writing something hateful or not, before they hit the send button.</p>
<p>@bshopeful Amen. Thank you.</p>
<p>It almost seems as if your questions is: If I knew that when my child finished BS, they would [only] get into a Tier 2 school- would I still have them go to the expensive top BS? Im not saying BU is Tier 2, but that seems to be the inference.</p>
<p>The unwritten assumption seems to be that if you go to a Tier 1 college, you will be more successful than if you went to a Tier 2 college. The key is not the school- but how well your child fits at the school, how much they grow and learn at that school, are they challenged, do they accept and thrive under that challenge? The question could easily be framed as: If I knew my child would go from a top BS to Harvard and would feel uncomfortable, not fit in and be miserable- would I want that. Absolutely NOT. Would I prefer my child to stay at home in our public HS school, go to our state college, and be happy, challenged, and thrive?- without hesitation. </p>
<p>Life does not end at the acceptance to or graduation from the university. That is just the beginning- and what kids will learn and experience at a top BS will undoubtedly pay dividends long after they have graduated from their college- regardless if it was BU or Harvard. Getting into the college should not be the goal. Getting out and becoming successful (how ever that is measured) should be. </p>
<p>Going to a top tier college is not a prerequisite for happiness or success. Many, many people go to “tier 2” schools and are extremely happy and content in their professions and thus successful in their lives and their own eyes. In my opinion, this is the key.</p>
<p>Oh, I don’t know. Maybe there’s not much different between the “ivy” and the “fit” camps, and maybe “fit” just sounds like a loftier goal. Might some people who honestly and frankly identify ivy as a goal for their kids do so because they think that would be the best fit? Maybe they’re right. They know their kids. And when we identify “fit” as the goal for high school or college, aren’t we really saying we want to send the kid where he will be happy and inspired, enthusiastically following/discovering his passions, and making the best use he can of the wonderful opportunities at whatever school he attends? And isn’t that the best road to ivy admissions and future success anyway? So are we “fit” types really being honest? Despite my own tendency to think in terms of “fit” for my kid’s high school education, I don’t know that I can claim any more purity than those who think in terms “ivy”. Can you?</p>