<p>So do you care, swish14, to explain how W&M will better prepare a student for medical school or graduate study in the biological sciences, because, not to sugar coat it as you say, but in my experience, which includes time at upper echelon schools in the field such as Penn and UCSF, and having some experience with former W&M students, it generally doesn’t do any better of a job.</p>
<p>And as far as “buying students”, you do realize that Pitt’s endowment is 4X larger than W&M’s and also is larger per student.</p>
<p>From everything I’ve heard, prestige is overrated (especially for premed). Not that it isn’t important for certain fields(like business), but GPA and test scores are what get you into med school not the “prestige” of the school. All the doctors I know say that saving money in undergrad is HUGE, one even told me that I would “have to be ■■■■■■■■” to pass up a scholarship at Pitt. But if it’s nothing for your family to pay then I guess that doesnt really matter.</p>
<p>Thanks for the truthiness, but I feel like it’s a bit presumptuous of you as a non-Pitt student to gauge the extent of this supposed chasm of which you speak. I turned down an acceptance at W&M to come to Pitt (<em>not</em> for financial reasons, might I add), and I do not perceive myself to be significantly more intelligent than the “avg” Pitt student. My fellow classmates <em>are</em> my peers. Sure, there are some slackers, but I’d venture to guess that W&M has its fair share of slackers as well, as is the case with pretty much any institution. Regardless, I’d never qualify my classmates as anything but my equals.</p>
<p>I don’t even think swish is completely basing his opinion on prestige because it looks like yesterday he urged the OP of another thread to take W&M over Princeton. That would actually be contradicting his statements in this thread and others on college being all about being in your “peer group”. As a CS, the OP would be stronger academically than the average Pitt or W&M student, but if someone walks around here acting like there is “an enormous chasm” between them and everyone else they’re not going to win any friends. Anyway, if you want to actively champion your school, at least back up your statements with facts, personal experiences, and statistics like wgmcp does so it sounds less like fanatical rambling.</p>
<p>I’d certainly hope that type of sanctimonious attitude would not win such an individual friends anywhere. The reality is that a “W&M caliber” student is not going to be a veritable Stephen Hawking in comparison to the average Pitt student.</p>
<p>My daughter is one of 20 or so freshmen NMS at Pitt. Never have I heard her say how brilliant she is compared to other students. She did not apply to W&M because the student panel they set up for a gifted students day was such a turn off (and possibly because her cousins and aunt and uncle are all grads).</p>
<p>I am also amazed at how many people base their opinions on no real experience, but just what they think or have heard fourth hand. Any bright kid will find plenty of peers at Pitt.</p>
<p>My D had W&M high on her list - right size, (almost) perfect location, strong academics etc. The campus is lovely - one of the nicest I’ve ever seen and the kids all seemed really happy. </p>
<p>But then our tour guide did admit that most classes freshman & sophmore year would be quite large - there would be a freshman seminar but other than that, pretty large lectures w/ 50, 75 or 100 kids. Not what she was looking for & something you may want to consider – at both schools for that matter.</p>
<p>doctorb said “W&M is closer to Princeton than Pitt is to W&M. Look at any college guide book/test scores/admit ratio/US News undergrad teaching ranking.”</p>
<p>So, I did that. I took the 2009-10 Common Data Sets for all three and compared the % difference between Princeton and W&M and then W&M and Pitt to see who W&M was closer to in SAT scores and admit ratios. Here are the results:</p>
<p>The difference in % applicants admitted were essentially the same difference between Princeton/W&M as W&M/Pitt (23.4 vs 25 points respectively). However, as a percentage difference, W&M admissions rate was 231% higher than Princeton’s, but only 75% lower than Pitt’s.</p>
<p>As far as SAT scores, going by the middle 50 percentile numbers for combined Math, Writing and Critical Reading the raw point differences between Princeton/W&M were 240-200 (or 11.5% to 8.5% difference). Between Pitt and W&M the differences was 130-140 (or 7.0% to 6.5% difference). For middle 50 ACT Composite differences, the scores are 4 and 3 for Princeton vs W&M (12.9% to 8.6% respectively) and 2 and 2 for W&M vs Pitt (7.4% to 6.3% respectively).</p>
<p>So the answer is that, at least by standardized test scores (both SAT and ACT), W&M is in fact closer to Pitt than Princeton. </p>
<p>It is also worth noting that accepted freshman to Pitt’s Honors College would be in approximately the top quarter of all W&M students judging by standardized test scores.</p>
<p>I was also considering other schools in addition to Pitt and W&M, but I ultimately selected Pitt because of its location. I’m originally from a small town in PA, and I wanted to live in a more urban environment while still remaining somewhat close to my hometown. Pitt is certainly more urban than W&M, but it’s not actually in the downtown area of Pittsburgh or smack-dab in the middle of the city. Instead, it’s kind of in its own little corner of the city, though the rest of the city is easily accessible by bus (free for Pitt students!). Another major consideration was the accessibility of clinical experiences and research opportunities. UPMC is a huge presence on campus, and I liked that I would be able to take my pick from a number of hospitals (UPMC Presby, UPMC Shadyside, Magee-Womens, Hillman Cancer Center, Western Psych, Children’s-recently re-located from Oakland, but still easily accessible…probably forgetting a few…) for volunteering. In addition to volunteer positions, there are paid positions (Nursing Assistant/Patient Care Technician, phlebotomist, EMT, etc.) that students can seek out at the hospitals. There’s also the Veterans Affairs hospital, at which students volunteer/work, too.</p>
<p>Honestly… the “prestige” gap between Pitt and W&M is insignificant. If you really wanted a great school you should’ve looked at the University of Virginia not the College of William & Mary. Anyways, you’ll find everything you need and more at Pitt… all for $0 and the city of Pittsburgh and UPMC right at your fingertips for your preparation for medical school. good luck.</p>