<p>My child received a full ride to U Pitt (Chancellor's scholarship) but is stuck between deciding there or William & Mary (affordable). Her problem with Pitt is the size and that it is not a "walled" campus. She really likes W&M but wonders if she would be turning down great opportunities at Pitt. She is into biology/psychology and is a top student. She wonders if Pitt is a "party hard, study little" school where she would not be challenged. Any advice?</p>
<p>Wow - congratulations on the Chancellor’s scholarship, which is HUGE! You don’t mention whether she’s in the Honors College, but I assume she is. I remember from when my kids applied to Pitt that there were several academic advantages to the Honors College, and that the Chancellor’s Scholarship honorees had even more of those. I imagine your d would soon find a mentor who would help assure that her education there was challenging and first-rate. I also believe that she’d find many students of her caliber in the Honors College and amongst her fellow Chancellor’s honorees. </p>
<p>I’ve had two kids attend W & M and we love the place. I think that the same student can be happy at either school. But she has to be that “bloom where she’s planted” type. Pitt is bigger and urban; W & M is mid-sized and contained. There’s partying at W & M, without a doubt - but if there are any “study little” kids there, they usually don’t last. (Oldest d had a friend whose nickname was “Two-Thirds” after one semester, because that was his GPA - he was gone after the second semester.)</p>
<p>The Chancellor’s Scholarship is a great opportunity, to be sure. But if your d could earn it, she’s the kind of student who would also find great opportunities at W & M. I’d say she can’t go wrong. Also noting that if she’s looking at grad school, Pitt probably makes more sense financially.</p>
<p>By affordable, do you mean affordable with or without loans? Can you pay out of pocket for William and Mary, or will you have to take on debt? And if so, how much? I think that a little bit of debt is sometimes worth turning down a full-ride second-choice school for an affordable “dream school,” but it really depends on your family resources. And also, although it’s impossible to know for sure at this point in time, is your daughter planning going to graduate school? If she’s planning a PhD it shouldn’t matter (PhDs, especially in biological and psychological fields, usually give admitted students full funding for 5 years including health insurance and a living stipend), but if she’s thinking about law school, medical school, or funding a professional master’s degree then those things get expensive.</p>
<p>William and Mary hands down!</p>
<p>There is another Chancellor’s winner making the same decision in another thread. DD is at Pitt–she turned down Chicago and Georgetown (followed the money) and is very challenged taking physics, calc and Japanese. If your daughter is looking for a more traditional campus, Pitt is not the place.</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/915557-william-mary-upitt.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-pittsburgh/915557-william-mary-upitt.html</a></p>
<p>Sounds like people are favoring W&M. W&M is affordable without loans, at least on first glance but that would leave little to no money for grad/med school. She is a person who usually is told she “will do fine wherever she goes”. She also likes a challenge academically; she may not be the smartest but she works very hard. Going to Pitt would mean probably more research opportunities/hospital experience and having money toward further education and being a BIG FISH (as a Chancellor’s Scholar). Having a lot of friends currently at W&M, she is aware of the party scene there as well as academics.</p>
<p>Oh well, we have contacted numerous teachers and others whom we think might be able to shed some light on this decision making process. Hopefully with their input and yours, she will make her decision without regrets. </p>
<p>Thanks for your help.</p>
<p>I don’t know much about W&M, but Pitt is exceptionally strong in biology, has a huge medical center with number of research institutes next door, and is next to CMU where Pitt students can take classes as well.</p>
<p>It is a very urban campus, but it is right next to a huge park, and the whole area is very nice.</p>
<p>W&M without question.</p>
<p>To me the urban location of a Pitt is a huge advantage. There’s plenty of green space on and off campus and it’s a pretty decent neighborhood with residential areas immediately adjacent to the campus.</p>
<p>swish14, what is the reason behind your strong favoritism for W&M?</p>
<p>Congrats to your D! The bad news is that this is going to be a very tough decision. The good news is that the reason the bad news is bad is because both options are great ones. I can see my son in a similar dilemma next year. He visited Pitt and unexpectedly (because he was sure he wanted a suburban enclosed campus) loved it. It is now on the top of his list, along with schools that are the opposite of Pitt in terms of campus. He would really have a tough choice to make on that.</p>
<p>Are you PA or VA state residents? How much more would it cost to go to W&M over Pitt? If both are equally acceptable, go to the less expensive one unless the cost is an issue. I can tell you that cost was a big issue when I was choosing colleges for myself. I didn’t pick the least expensive option, but I did take cost into account when weighing the decision.</p>
<p>We are Va residents which is why we can afford W&M without taking out loans. However Pitt would be virtually free for her and thus she would have funds to pay/start grad school/med school. </p>
<p>Her heart is leaning towards W&M because she is so familiar with it but she wonders if she would be giving up on great possibilities at Pitt that might not be available at W&M. As she says, she would be a whale at Pitt but just a goldfish at W&M.</p>
<p>Juste-</p>
<p>I would recommend your child go where she will be challenged and happy. Bigger isnt always better. In fact, for education it may be just the opposite. A large percentage of the Pitt students are from the local county and the avg test scores are way below W&M. It is the George Mason of PA. If you want to be prepared for life, W&M is a wonderful place for these formative years. Best of luck.</p>
<p>Disclaimer - I am a PA resident but spent large chunks of my life in Williamsburg. I have a fondness for W&M…</p>
<p>I vote for Pitt.</p>
<p>Reading this, it is my understanding that W&M isn’t offering any grants/schol. It is affordable due to your residence, correct?</p>
<p>The Pitt Scholarship is not something a transfer student can get, but a transfer student who is a VA resident can always get the in-state tuition. So, to me absolute worst case scenario is she hates Pitt after a year and re-applies to W & M. Best case scenario, she enjoys Pitt and is debt free. </p>
<p>Whatever your family decides, congrats because either school is wonderful !</p>
<p>in response to doctorb – The “normal” Pitt student has a much different academic experience than a Chancellor winner.</p>
<p>My daughter is not a Chancellor scholar, but there are only about 10 each year. I think that if students assume that falling into that group puts them into a “big fish” category, they may be disappointed. I think about 400 kids are invited to apply for the Chancellor’s, any of whom would be competitive, and about 100 are invited to interview. Of those, I don’t know how many actually matriculate. When my daughter toured Pitt, all of the kids she talked with said they came to Pitt because of scholarships.</p>
<p>From this thread, it sounds almost like the ten Chancellor scholars are the only bright kids who go to Pitt. That is simply not true. The most important factor in anyone’s education is what he/she puts in to it.</p>
<p>I never thought I would be saying this but I vote for WM for excellent academics and comfortable surroundings, plus proximity as described. Having sent two to college, both much too far as I now see it, one to a very urban, very depressed area, and one to WM, it’s good to remember that it’s not all about academics. Our kids have to LIVE there, find a social life there, walk the streets there, make friends there and will get sick there, etc. Don’t know much about Pittsburgh but WM seems like a little bit of paradise compared to the other son’s environment… and experiences so far…</p>
<p>Transferring is a terrible option. “I could marry the rich girl, but if that doesnt work out, I can always divorce her and marry my true love”. You only have one freshman year experience. You cant try to recapture that magic as a second year student at a new school.</p>
<p>An important factor here is whether she thinks it is more likely that she would want to go to medical school or whether it is more likely that she would want to go to graduate school for a Ph.D.</p>
<p>You pay for medical school. So students who think they’re going in that direction often choose the least expensive college in order to avoid undergraduate debt. In some instances, if they make this choice, parents agree to help them with their medical school costs, too, using the money that wasn’t spent on undergrad.</p>
<p>You don’t pay for graduate school. Ph.D. candidates almost always are research or teaching assistants, which pays their tuition and gives them a small stipend to live on. A frugal graduate student can break even. So if your daughter is more likely to go for a Ph.D., it is not necessarily essential for her to select the less expensive college (although it’s still nice to graduate without debt).</p>
<p>It seems to me that your daughter clearly prefers William and Mary, and finances would not be a problem. She should go to William and Mary, then, as she will be better equipped to deal with the frustrations and disappointments inevitable during the freshman year if that is where her heart has led her.</p>
<p>I do have to agree with MD, though, that if she expects that she would be a “whale” at Pitt, she is likely to be disappointed. (Some students are “whales” no matter where they go, though.)</p>
<p>Pitt seems to attract large numbers of exceptionally talented students besides the small numbers of Chancellor’s Scholars. Many Honors College students turn down far more prestigious schools (including T20 schools) to attend. The money is a big factor, but so are the city of Pittsburgh, Honors College options for most of the large introductory courses, and the outstanding research opportunities, even for undergrads. Many bright students enjoy the lack of pretentiousness among Pitt students.</p>
<p>"Many bright students enjoy the lack of pretentiousness among Pitt students. " Thank you frazzled; I couldn’t have said it better.</p>
<p>Pittsburgh isn’t the rundown old steel town of our youth. It is a fun, exciting city.</p>