We are in process of shortlisting colleges for our 11th grader, and have shortlisted William & Mary, UNC Chapel Hill , and Wake Forest. We live in NC and I work for WF, hence will receive significant fee waiver for him. We are Asian Americans and my son want to pursue premed.
We are looking for an institution meeting following criteria:
Diverse, safe and liberal campus.
Strong premed program with higher med school acceptance.
Better research opportunities.
Small class size, better interaction with professor.
Value for money and reputation.
Greek life and partying is not a priority.
Sports are not important
Given all these criteria, how would you rank these there colleges/universities?
Thank you in advance for your valuable insights and help.
We know a student very well for whom these were 3 of their top 4 choices. They attended one and transferred to another.
You are obviously very familiar with Wake. All three are terrific for pre-med, though Wake does have a pretty strong “weed out” vibe. Wake probably takes the gold for small class size, though students can be in seminar classes with under 20 students at the other two as well. All are strong for research. I know current students at all of them who were doing research in labs freshman and sophomore years. William and Mary probably takes the gold for “Greek life and partying is not a priority” and “Sports are not important.” There is Greek life. I view it as big enough to be something if a student is interested in it, but something a student can easily ignore if not. It is more chill than at Wake Forest and UNC. It’s really very big at Wake. Agree? UNC and Wake are ACC schools and have major football and basketball programs . . . and Wake is obviously tip-top for soccer. W&M basketball is pretty good right now, and the football stadium is a nice place to watch a game, but it is not as big time as at the other two. Also fun and a real thing if a student wants to go but also easy to ignore if so inclined. UNC and W&M are definitely more diverse than Wake, especially if one is considering socioeconomic diversity. I know W&M has a current initiative to enhance diversity by making a big commitment to meeting full financial need, especially for in-state students. Good luck, all great schools!
UNC is best regarding diversity (They just won the Jack Kent Cook equity award, for example.)
UNC is best regarding value
Wake Forest is best for small class size
UNC and Wake Forest are best for research
W&M and UNC are best for not needing to be part of Greek life
W&M is best around not having sports culture
All have strong reputation, but I’d say UNC because of its size and also getting ranked so high among publics is the slight leader here.
All are going to be very good for pre-med. I have no idea which has best pre-med acceptances – I suggest you do that research.
Those are my assessments along the criteria you mentioned, but I can’t rank them for you because I don’t know which of the factors are most important to you.
S was interested in all 3 as well. Currently a sophomore at Wake. Was admitted to W&M as OOS (declined at UNC as OOS). Although he had other choices, his final selection was between Wake and W&M. Saw them as academic equals. Chose Wake for the “vibe”. Is interested in sports, tailgates and that type of thing. Not in a frat and has many good friends also not in a frat. They kind of formed their own tight group (pretty large). I mention that because many on this site think Greek life is so dominant at Wake, one would be left out of social life without it. Not so, at least in my kids experience.
Bottom line, he liked W&M but he loved Wake. The difference was the enthusiasm most of the campus feels towards ACC sports and overall school spirit (although the Tribe is pretty connected) of a tight knit community.
AlmostThere2018: Appreciate your inputs. I completely agree with your assessment.
rickle1: Thanks for your sharing your experience. It’s interesting to know how your son was able develop his social circle without involving into greek life. That is reassuring.
Overall, looks like UNC is winner here, balanced in every aspect. Though class size could be large.
W&M is a close choice, with least possible involvement in sports and Greek life. Diverse but away from our home.
Wake best for smallest size and but least diverse. Though it’s home town.
When we looked at Wake my daughter was most impressed with having 14 students in a class… sitting around a table. She loved that. UNC … the intro classes can be large ( 100-150) but after that… the classes are generally small… but not as small as WF.
Regarding diversity, it comes in all flavors (pun intended). There is significant geographic diversity at Wake (compared to the others) by nature of it not being a state school with large in state quotas. Likely more well to do kids at Wake, so less economic diversity.
S has friends from all over the country (literally). No geographic hub, but rather, scattered from everywhere - CA, TX, IL, MA, NJ, NY, VA, FL, GA, TN, OH, WI, MN, NC, etc. Many countries represented as well.
Economic diversity - would agree the average kid comes from greater than average affluence with some being quite affluent. That said, many are on work study (which means they qualified for need based aid so not affluent). S is full pay but took out Stafford loan and has a job for spending money. Lots of kids like that too.
WF… being a private school… will have greater geographic diversity than the others. That being said… my daughter has friends from all over the country… Texas, Florida, Maryland, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Georgia etc. It did… however… take her some time to adjust to being an “outsider,” as most students do come from instate. Other OOS students had no problems adjusting… it depends on the individual.
In my opinion all 3 schools will be strong in the sciences… with good premed advising.
Won’t matter for pre-med. Visit and choose based on fit and instinct. UNC and WF have associated medical centers/schools, which may mean more research opportunities for undergrads.
The thing to look for in pre-med is a place you feel comfortable will do well (and doesn’t feel cutthroat if that matters to you). A medical center is not needed for research opportunities undergraduates need for medical school. What you are looking for is the probability of getting to do directed research with a science faculty member. W&M is quite strong at that and doesn’t have a medical school (although there are nearby hospitals).
Looking back at your original criteria, I would say:
Diverse, safe and liberal campus – Wake will probably be more on the conservative side.
Strong premed program with higher med school acceptance – not sure good data exists on acceptance. It seems many schools claim high rates (I recall seeing this from W&M).
Better research opportunities. – They can all probably fulfill what is needed.
Small class size, better interaction with professor – Will probably be better at Wake and W&M. Look at Niche and Princeton review ratings.
Value for money and reputation. - If you are in-state, I would say UNC for value for money. They are all known schools.
Greek life and partying is not a priority – Probably the biggest factor at Wake
Sports are not important – you don’t have to get caught up in sports. W&M is lower key on sports.
twogirls/WildestDream: Thank you for your inputs and time. Much appreciated.
rickle1: Thanks for sharing your experiences and insight about Wake.
We are going to visit Wake soon and W&M next month. Already went UNC. Will update this thread after our visit. Hope we find the most suitable place for him.
Would your son get TE at Richmond? If so, you might consider there too. S18 wanted a smaller school, so didn’t consider those you’ve listed, and is now in his 1st year at Richmond. I believe I read they have about 88% med school acceptance. His biggest class has 17 kids. He’s in a biology “endeavor” (new living/learning communities this year with close faculty involvement), great research opportunities (in fact, part of this endeavor will be research this spring) and the school provides every student with 4K to do unpaid research or internship. School even runs a free MCAT review program for students. There is a Greek scene but the parties are all open and there are other things to do. (1/3 of males join). 10% international students, need blind admissions. Just s thought.
Richmond is a GREAT school in a cool place. S was also interested / admitted there. I would say it’s most like Wake (vs the others), just a little smaller. Although it’s in to Greek and sports, it seems less than Wake because it has a smaller student body. It definitely has the LAC feel as there are only 3k undergrads but has a large endowment (for its size) . You can’t go wrong with any of these.
I’d echo the above praise for U of Richmond. My child was also admitted to several of the colleges you are considering and decided on UR. So far…it has exceeded expectations!
Thank you havenoidea, rickle1 and CCJJE. I quickly saw their stats, and this option appears encouraging. I will surely explore more. Thank you once again.
One more suggestion would be to reach out to the pre-med coordinator at the schools for info. You may be able to find them listed online with contacts. Search for something like pre-med advisor.
Colleges can be pretty cagey about providing information about their pre-med programs and success in placing because it can be taken out of context. Some universities have recommendation committees that effectively screen out applicants with lower stats. This may raise the acceptance rate, but it distorts it if you are comparing to a school that does not do that. They may also only report acceptance rate of top students with GPAs above a certain level The pre-med advisor may be pretty forthcoming about this and can detail what model the school uses. Ideally, you’d like to get an apples to apples compare.
All three (four if you include Richmond) place quite well for med school. Some will say that’s because of weed out classes, (so only the top kids actually make it that far). That argument always makes me laugh (whether it be med school, law school, top MBA / Accounting, engineering, etc. If you can’t handle the weed out process (rigor, competition), how on earth will you handle the next level at med school? There’s a reason they make it difficult.
Really easy for someone to say they want to be a Vet because they love puppies! Go do the work to see just how much you love puppies. For most, it’s maybe go get a puppy and do something else.