Williams, Carleton, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Amherst....

Parents Forum
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<p>“Would love help” she says in a calm voice, as she notes moderate panic and stress within herself. Have been reading on this website a lot and you all are so knowledgeable and helpful. Chose screen name to help me take deep breaths. Have visited all of these schools, but still aren’t sure about how the schools and students are different from each other. </p>

<p>D is a senior who has the right scores, grades, etc to have a good chance at the top LACs (good chance still means 50/50 probably, though, in today’s climate). She’s considering doing ED if she can figure out enough about which of these schools (or other schools you might suggest) might be a good fit. </p>

<p>We would love your thoughts and ideas on these two questions:</p>

<li>What is your general sense, thoughts, or even “gut feeling” about how these LACs can be distinquished from each other?<br></li>
</ol>

<p>Are some of these LACs known for “always studying”, “excessive drinking”, “unusually close faculty-student”, “close community among students”, etc? </p>

<p>Do some of these LACs seem to be more intellectual, more preppy, more quirky, more serious, more relaxed, stronger faculty, stronger academics, more fun-loving student body?</p>

<li> To tell you a bit about my D:</li>
<li>enjoys liberal arts (history, creative writing, literature, psychology, foreign languages), </li>
<li>loves involvement with literary newspapers & magazines, environmental causes, community service, friendships, & dynamic classes </li>
<li>doesn’t enjoy math or science (although good & competent in them)</li>
<li>no make-up, pony tail, vegetarian, active, energetic, focused, upbeat</li>
<li>values friendships, community, great books, stimulating discussions</li>
<li>athletic–biking, hiking, skiing, etc (1 varsity sport in HS, none in college)</li>
<li>drawn toward creative, artistic people </li>
<li>mentally quick & very bright, top of her class at a top school</li>
</ol>

<p>My D is looking for:

  • majority of classes not bigger than 18 or so
  • professors who are dynamic, interesting, & engaged with the students
  • not too preppy (realizing all of the schools will have a mixture, do any of these LACs tend to draw more preppy-types?)
  • caring campus community
  • size between 1500 & 3000
  • active students (with classes, with outdoor activities, with each other)</p>

<p>Any assistance would be helpful. Even just a few words or gut feelings on some of the differences between these schools. Thanks.</p>

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<p>I'll try to locate the source, but Williams looks like the worst fit (kind of a very smart jock/drinking place).</p>

<p>I would think that the profs would be great at all of them.</p>

3

<p>Have you considered Swarthmore? Very intellectual atmosphere, small classes, history of community service and work for environmental causes, lots of interactions between students and professors, etc. My oldest is an '07 graduate and I would be happy to try to answer any questions you have.</p>

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<p>Carleton seems like a very good fit for her. From what I've heard about it anyways. A lot of the kids there are athletic but not jocky and there is a large vegetarian contingent as well. Oberlin might also be good for her. IMHO, the rest of the colleges on your list might be a bit preppier.</p>

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<p>Actually, with your D's interest in athletics (though not necessarily playing a sport in college), I think Williams would be a good fit if you're willing to tradeoff on drinking. Ditto for Middlebury, although it's a bit more preppy than Williams--both have excellent opportunities for outdoorsy stuff. Williams also has an artsy side and is highly reputed for art history.</p>

<p>Frankly, all five of the schools you've named will be known for more excessive drinking than, say, Swarthmore. A product of the culture, location, and climate.</p>

<p>How is your D on weather? Carleton, Middlebury, and Bowdoin will be (relatively) colder than W and A.</p>

<p>^ I second the recommendation of Carleton as well--"quirky intellectual" reputation; I'll take sarahdisk's word for the athletic side. Oberlin fits except for the sporty part--my impression of the student body and culture is decidedly not athletic. Wonderful support for vegetarians and the environmentally conscious, though.</p>

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<p>Your daughter sounds exactly like me. Amherst and Bowdoin seems like the best match -- but encourage her to look at Hampshire, too! If she is like me, it will be a perfect fit. Hampshire boasts a small community, rigorous, student-directed curriculum, liberal vegetarian hippies like ourselves, and is very accepting of any and all lifestyles. Moreover, it is very big into the liberal arts and has lots of opportunties for outdoorsy athletics in the area, and best yet, it has a deal where Hampshire students can take classes at Amherst (among others). That way, even if she is rejected from Amherst, she will probably be accepted at Hampshire and have the opportunity to take classes at both.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Bowdoin would be perfect - look no further... A perfect match, a perfect college. Good Luck!</p>

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<p>^ I don't think anyone except the OP's D can make such an assertion. FYI, Bowdoin is weak in English literature and creative writing.</p>

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<p>We visited Middlebury and Bowdoin in June. Absolutely loved Bowdoin -- a little utopia in a beautiful area with the nicest people.
We gave Middlebury mixed reviews. S didn't like how spread out the buildings were, and I don't think he liked the all-white sameness compared to other schools we visited on our trip. We were all ready to put it on the list of possibles. I always try to find a student newspaper on campus because you get a different view of life there compared to what you may learn on a student-led tour. I picked up a copy of "The Middlebury Campus", dated May 1. The front page had a very disturbing article on the sexist social scene on campus:</p>

<p>"While gender relations across campus have generally improved over the last decade, sexism remains a dominant and controlling facet of social life, a report released April 29 from the Task Force on the Status of Women (TSW) at the College found."
It also says "... alcohol is one of the driving causes behind problematic elemants of the social scene." "Rampant eating disorders, however, remain a large issue on campus." The sexism also affects the female faculty.</p>

<p>The article is extensive and covers several facets of midd's social life and environment. I believe the article is available online in the newspaper's archives.</p>

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<p>D's good friend attends Macalester and loves it. I think it offers everything your daughter is looking for. The location, although described as urban, is actually more on the suburban side. If your daughter wouldn't mind Minnesota weather, Mac is worth a look.</p>

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<p>I think all of them look like great matches. Three of them (Williams, Middlebury, Bowdoin) were on my daughter's list. She is a freshman at Williams now, and I can't give an in-depth review since she's only been there for two days :-), but so far it's great.</p>

<p>My daughter is very sociable, but not a drinker/party person. She is still getting to know the people in her entry (freshman living group), but she thinks she's not going to be the only one. She sounds a lot like your daughter except for the vegetarian part; also, she plans to study math and science but she also enjoys everything else. Also athletic, outdoorsy, etc. One of the nice things about Williams is the Outing Club, which students can join for $10/year. After that they can check out skis, go on trips, etc. for no extra cost.</p>

<p>Your daughter might like to take a look at the freshman orientation schedule for this year: <a href="http://www.williams.edu/dean/pdffile/FYdocs/firstdayspreliminary.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;www.williams.edu/dean/pdffile/FYdocs/firstdayspreliminary.pdf&lt;/a>
Every incoming student signs up for a 3-day orientation activity - my daughter is going backpacking; other choices are canoeing and rock-climbing, plus some less outdoorsy things.</p>

<p>I think my kid would have been happy at any of the schools on your daughter's list.</p>

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<p>Great list of schools. I agree with above poster that Carleton sounds like a good fit for your daughter. (My daughter, also a vegetarian, has been happy there.) You might also add Vassar, which was listed (somewhere) last year as a great school for vegetarians. Also, read the guidebooks if you haven't already. Princeton Review, Fisk, etc., give a pretty general feel for a school. Then visit as many as possible! :)</p>

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<p>Middlebury, with its extremely strong programs in creative writing, literature, languages, and environmental studies, sounds like the perfect fit.</p>

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<p>How about Pitzer? Great weather for any outdoor activities and skiing is just an hour away. From your description of your daughter, she seems like a good fit for Pitzer.</p>

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<p>Agree with cbreeze--Pitzer is another good suggestion, with the added bonus of a great college consortium to draw upon.</p>

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<p>I'm biased towards Amherst, but in its open curriculum she doesn't have to take math or science if she doesn't want to, however she'll most likely be encouraged to do so. The Amherst consortium is a plus and the school is quite diverse. DS really liked Williams and almost chose them. Middlebury was the front runner initially, but fell off because other schools were less isolated. Macalester was a little bit dull and Swarthmore too quirky and my DS wanted a campus that seemed to be a bit more personable. Bates was cool but was trumped by the Williams and Amherst visits/acceptances. As far as LAC's go (DS visited/accepted by all that I have mentioned except Mac, didn't apply) Amherst and Williams were tops and the resources are hard to beat. The people seemed to be genuine and the staff/faculty have been great thus far. I could see why Amherst was considered among the top campuses that "ran smooth like butter." Amherst people seem to make it happen. All the student has to do is determine what "it" is. They even give you help with that! Definitely enough of your D's types and interests to fit in. Tougher maybe to get in.</p>

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<p>They all seem like a good fit. I think that Carleton is the probably the least preppy and the most quirky/intellectual. Of the rest, I think that Amherst probably offers the broadest social scene and broadest academic offerings because of the 5 college exchange and the town, which is a nice one. (Forget about Boston except for very rare trips: it's too far away.) Williams and Middlebury are the most "in the middle of nowhere" and may have the biggest drinking scene as a result, but they also have a lot of very outdoorsy kids and activities. I have the strong impression that the arts scene at Middlebury is less than at Williams, especially music, and that it is also preppier. Bowdoin is in a lovely little college town and not far from Portland, which is a great little city with surprising diversity and a vibrant cultural life. The outdoor recreational activities in the region (land and sea) are tops.</p>

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<p>If you've been on this site for a while, you know all about a "safety" school. I'm sure your daughter is very qualified. However, admissions at many of the LACs being mentioned here are quite competitive. Also, female-heavy LACS are trying to recruit boys, and so a girl may find it harder to get in. My daughter was a high-achieving student with super SATs and also NMF, and she didn't get into Vassar. So be sure your daughter has a school somewhat lower ranked on her list, or a school that would be interested in her due to geographic diversity, etc.</p>

<p>Also, some people say that LACs shouldn't be considered a safety at all, given how few freshmen are admitted.</p>

<p>Another tip with a LAC is that it's even more important to visit while school is in session. LACs tend to have their own distinctive character, whereas a large school can be all things to all people.</p>

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<p>I have a teetotalling virtual niece who is a very happy rising junior at Amherst.</p>

<p>All of these schools are very close competitors. Williams and Amherst are sort of Tweedledee and Tweedledum as far as I'm concerned, although there are certainly differences. (Amherst smaller, much less isolated, open curriculum; Williams has popular tutorials, a little jockier.) Middlebury may be a tad less intellectual than the others, more lopsidedly humanities-oriented. Carleton is probably more of a midwestern Swarthmore, and may attract more serious-intellectual types.</p>

<p>Along with Swarthmore, she may also want to look at Haverford. And, in the maybe-safer category, Bard, which has lots of fans here on CC, Hamilton, Colgate, and also Colby and Bates (Bowdoin's Maine competitors, but slightly less competitve).</p>

20

<p>I'd second the Carleton and Mac suggestions and Add Grinnell, one of the few top LACs that gives merit $$. My son, who got into all 10 LACs he applied to (easier for a boy, though), chose Grinnell and is incredibly happy there. All of the schools mentioned are great schools, but only Carleton, on the OPs original list, would begin to meet my son's quirk factor.</p>

<p>OP</p>

<p>If you want a list and review of the 20 quirky intellectual LACs we visited, send me a PM.</p>