<p>Columbia hands down. Unless you don't like the idea of going to school in NYC.</p>
<p>williams! 96.7% of graduates from williams college get accepted to med school and 99.6% (of those who apply) get accepted to law school.
also, there are many williams alum and students working on wall street and j.p. morgan... many ceo's and head of company are williams alum and instantly hire other students/grads that went to williams due to the strong connection the williams alumni network has!! for your academic interests, williams, a lib. arts college with a 7:1 teacher-student ratio is incredible! furthermore, the profs here are here to teach rather than to take advantage of the research facilities and such at many high ivy league schools.</p>
<p>Both offer great opportunities. The real question is what kind of person are you? Are you someone who is likely to be overwhelmed by Columbia and NYC? Are you someone who is likely to find Williams comfortable the first year and then outgrow it or its location in later years?</p>
<p>Here's a way to think about it that might help: When my S was considering which colleges to apply to, a friend of his at Williams told him what she loved best about it was that she knew she could count on seeing all her friends every day. He repeated her words with great enthusiasm. Then I asked him if that appealed to him. He thought about it for a few minutes and said, actually it didn't. He'd gone to a small high school and he was looking for a bigger playing field, if that makes sense. So what was ideal for one person sounded like a drawback to someone else.</p>
<p>Go to the place that will challenge you, but where you see yourself being comfortable enough to take advantage of all the opportunities the institutition offers.</p>
<p>"williams! 96.7% of graduates from williams college get accepted to med school and 99.6% (of those who apply) get accepted to law school."</p>
<p>this is meaningless, i'd be taken aback if the % was any less. I mean who can't get into any law or med school.</p>
<p>"or your academic interests, williams, a lib. arts college with a 7:1 teacher-student ratio is incredible!"</p>
<p>columbia college has 620 faculty (not including seas) for 4060 students, that's a student:faculty ratio of 6.5 : 1.</p>
<p>"furthermore, the profs here are here to teach rather than to take advantage of the research facilities and such at many high ivy league schools."</p>
<p>this is the stereotype of a state schools and of Harvard, not columbia college, columbia college very much prizes itself as a small intimate liberal arts college within a large research university. Also there are big advantages to coming to a research univ, like participating is awesomely cool research and williams might miss out on this, although i wouldn't know, at any rate research helps the name and perception of the university.</p>
<p>Confidentialcoll....right on point. Columbia all the way.</p>
<p>"Williams is ranked higher according to wsj feeder rankings, but that's partly because the columbia school of general studies is included in columbia's calculation"</p>
<p>-WSJ does not indicate that GS is included in its ranking. Class size alone (1,652) is indicative that GS has been omitted. </p>
<p>11 Columbia University
New York
1,652 118 7.14% Youd think undergrads here would have an edge getting into its elilte law
and medical schools. But several other Ivies sent more students.</p>
<p>Although being ranked at #11 is impressive, admission to its elite law and medical schools, is based on the underperformance of CC, not GS. </p>
<p>Regardless, please note the following about The School of General Studies, a fully integrated undergraduate college within Columbia University:</p>
<p>The Columbia University Post baccalaureate Premedical Program in residence at GS is the oldest and largest program of its kind in the United States. GS places up to and above 90 percent of its graduates in American medical schools. This enviable record is significantly higher than any other school at Columbia, and most other colleges in the world. </p>
<p>GS places more students, based on percentage of graduates, in top law schools than any other undergraduate school at Columbia. Many GS students already have worked, or are currently employed by law firms. </p>
<p>Many GS students already have degrees, and are seeking second degrees. Many have careers, and continue to work full time while attending Columbia. Some GS students have children, and are the head of a family.</p>
<p>GS students take the same courses, sit in the same classes, and compete for the same grades as every other student at Columbia. However, they do not partake in the traditional swimming test. </p>
<p>Many GS students have served in the military. In fact, GS was founded to accommodate individuals whose education was postponed due to military duty. Interestingly, ROTC remains banned at Columbia, because it violates Columbias anti-discrimination policies. Accordingly, this scenario creates some bickering within the GS community, as well as Columbia in general. </p>
<p>GS students tend to overwhelmingly take courses geared towards pre-med and law inclusive of Sociology, Philosophy, and Political Science. </p>
<p>Although very few GS students are music majors, many GS students are professional musicians, conductors, and composers. Moreover, GS boasts numerous famous celebrities, Olympic athletes, models, and several nameless beauty queens. Many actors performing in Broadway shows at night attend Columbia during the day. GS is a magnet for those working in the professional arts. </p>
<p>Although the admission rate at GS is currently higher than at other colleges at Columbia, the quality of applicant is also comparatively higher. If CC, SEAS, and Barnard students had to compete for admission directly with GS applicants, many would not be admitted to Columbia. </p>
<p>The admission rate at GS continues to fall every year.</p>
<p>GS students tend to have extensive life experience. Accordingly, students at Columbias other undergraduate colleges benefit from the wisdom and knowledge of GS students both in and out of the classroom. </p>
<p>Many GS students leave Columbia because of financial reasons, not because they lack ability or commitment. GS students do not have the same access to financial resources as students at Columbias other undergraduate divisions. As result, Columbia loses its best and brightest to schools like the U. of Pennsylvania and Harvard, which have comparable programs to GS, but at a fraction of the cost. As an added bonus to those who transfer out of Columbia, both Penn and Harvard are ranked higher than Columbia. </p>
<p>Most GS students gravitate toward the top of the class in their major subjects. Accordingly, classes replete with GS students that are graded on a curve become difficult in terms of obtaining an A. </p>
<p>Many GS students dont give a damn about the core curriculum.</p>
<p>Many GS students are enrolled in an affiliated school concomitantly such as the Jewish Theological Seminary (JTS). GS has more joint school students than any other division at Columbia. </p>
<p>GS no longer has a joint program with the Juilliard School, although there is talks of a joint program with Manhattan School of Music which adjoins the Columbia campus.</p>
<p>GS students no longer have access to Teacher's College, Columbia's number one ranked graduate school. This decision was made by Dean Awn, a most incompetent and rather shameful administrator at GS. </p>
<p>Most GS students already speak at least one foreign language fluently. They exploit such knowledge by taking four years of a "foreign language to boost their GPA. While this tactic is beneficial for GS students, those arriving directly from a high school language program will have difficulty when sitting next to a GS student foreign language classes. </p>
<p>Many GS students live on campus in Columbia housing. GS housing tends to be nicer than the traditional dorms, but in some instances can be farther away from the campus. </p>
<p>Some GS students are excessively wealthy, although you would never know it. Some GS students are excessively poor, although you would never know it. </p>
<p>The administration at GS equally as corrupt and unethical as the administration at CC.</p>
<p>Those who speak despairingly about GS the most, tend to be the most ignorant about GS. </p>
<p>Its a shame that GS is not included in WSJ rankings of feeder schools. If it was, then tiny Pomona College in California, which sent a higher proportion of its kids to Harvard Law than Columbia, would have ranked beneath Columbia instead of above it. Interestingly, WSJ also ranked Macalester in Minnesota above Barnard as being a college with a better track record. With that kind of reasoning, it would be beneficial for Columbia to only allow The School of General Studies to represent the university in the WSJ rankings.</p>
<p>Chris Columbia - CC/SEAS has an 85% accept rate into med school, 4th in the ivies, and a 79% placement for law. that is from preprof advising.</p>
<p>your assertion about higher percentage of top law schools from gs, show me facts, and how are you breaking out the gs class. cc+SEAS together are only 1400 students...so the 1652 undergrads doesn't make sense unless another school is included. i am a big fan of gs, but despite all i know...i also know that gs admins and students don't know how to break up their class, so i would be curious how it was done. and then what do you consider a top law school. i think this all matters.</p>
<p>I clicked on this thread because I've been accepted both to Columbia GS and Amherst College. Amherst, being a very similar school to Williams (and rival of course), I thought that the comparisons drawn in this thread might help me make my decision.</p>
<p>My problem is, every time I hear a Columbia alumni mention some aspect of the GS program that is perceived as inferior, whether or not is is inferior in reality, it makes me lean heavily towards Amherst. At least there, I'll be just like every other student, I wont' have this scarlet letter (or letters: GS). I realize people in the GS program don't walk around with a sign on them, but it must be somewhat uncomfortable knowing that, in certain circles, they are frowned upon. Just knowing that there are certain people out there that perceive GS students as bringing the school down in some way gives me a sense of exclusion and I haven't even set foot on campus yet. </p>
<p>Does anyone have any input regarding this? Does anyone care to try and change how I feel about this or would I be just one less GS student contaminating Columbia University.</p>
<p>The Ivy League label is a small leg-up if you're planning to pursue a career in Business or Finance.</p>
<p>However, if you plan on attending medical school or law school, Williams becomes the clear choice. In terms of professional employment and graduate school acceptance, Williams is the better choice.</p>
<p>Although Columbia is nestled in metropolitan New York City, a culture and leisure-rich haven, you would have a limited number of opportunities to fully enjoy the city if you planned to pursue a truly intensive academic career there.</p>
<p>On the other hand, at Williams, the pure aesthetic beauty and cleanliness of the environment, the facilities, the dorms, the town: they will all significantly contribute toward a far higher quality of life. Even if you choose to pursue an intensive academic career there, you would have these luxuries to fall back upon.</p>
<p>Both schools would offer you a financial aid package of similar generosity.</p>
<p>I recommend Williams without reservation.</p>
<p>But, if you believe that the Ivy League label and metropolitan New York are worth sacrificing a superior academic experience and a genuine quality learning environment, then I implore you to first visit both campuses. Then decide based on your own convictions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Does anyone have any input regarding this? Does anyone care to try and change how I feel about this or would I be just one less GS student contaminating Columbia University.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>jaykoblives, if you've been accepted to both Amherst and GS, why would you choose GS?</p>
<p>Read the other posts in this thread, and you'll see with how much disdain they're regarded at Columbia. They are an embarrassment, a source of shame, because they apparently pull down Columbia's feeder numbers? Of course, that's already been disproved, but that CC and SEAS students would be so eager to jump the gun and blame GS students for a low ranking... well...</p>
<p>And, if you spend some time reading their anonymous gossip forum, you can read too all the kinds of nasty things that are said about the intelligence and worth of GS students.</p>
<p>If it were between Columbia College and Amherst/Williams, there would be not too great a loss if you went either way. But, GS? Again, it's ultimately your choice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If it were between Columbia College and Amherst/Williams, there would be not too great a loss if you went either way. But, GS? Again, it's ultimately your choice.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I guess I didn't realize the disparity between GS and CC.</p>
<p>I would also like to point out that Amherst did not release its decisions yet and I have not been officially accepted. I merely received a strong commendation from one of the Deans who told me acceptance was highly likely given my background and their need for veteran students on campus.</p>
<p>I'm going to edit my original post, if possible to make this more clear.</p>
<p>hey jayko...follow your gut. amherst is a compelling place though as a friend of mine describes it: "a bit of a country club" from the students who attend, to the campus look. i like cu's diversity in this regard. as i have said re: gs, i think it has a purpose in higher ed, and i think it makes sense, but not for everyone. i dated someone long term from gs and it was never a problem besides having to sign into the ugrad dorms. i can say then from experience that most people at cu don't care about what school you go to, though some vocal folks like to be mean on anon forums or the bwog. if you are smart, and not sociallly awkward, then you are fine. some gs students choose to integrate themselves into ugrad life, but you should note that most do not (work on the side, have family and so prefer other friend circles). of those that integrate themselves most are younger in age and blend in pretty well so much so that people are in disbelief when they find out they are go to gs. some give gsers a bad rap by being...awkward - i can think of a few types. but it is no worse stereotyping than the overly pretentious college kid that makes us all look like snobs. </p>
<p>as a stickler for honesty, i challenged chriscolumbia only because i think that gs apologists try hard to not just say the school is good, but to prove that it is better than college and seas, whereas gs naysayers are equally wrong in blaming gs. neither is right because to be honest gs is very different in terms of school composition than cc/seas.</p>
<p>gs is a school with people coming with such a different perspective on life that it is unfair to compare them to traditional ugrads both on the admissions end and on the outcomes end - a few friends of mine in gs came back after they had dropped out of top flight schools to work at start-ups, they only came to gs because they realized they wanted an actual degree. when they graduate and go back to making thousands of bucks it is unfair to compare them to a 22 yo who is wet behind the ears. not saying one is better, just hard to compare.</p>
<p>as for your choices it should come down to finances and feel. go to the one you like the most and don't look back. if there is someone you really want to study with at cu, it is easy to go to gs - take classes with them, live somewhere not even close to campus, do an internship or work part time, and have a full experience; equally so if you want to reintegrate yourself into a campus life though it takes more effort on your part (making friends with people who are at times younger, staying at campus late at night), but to those i know who wanted that experience they found it possible and rewarding. one of my best friends was a 30+ student from a Core class that was just one of the coolest kids in school, he could chill with 20yos with the same deftness as he could open up his own clothing store, great guy. lemme know if you have more questions.</p>
<p>
[quote]
amherst is a compelling place though as a friend of mine describes it: "a bit of a country club" from the students who attend, to the campus look.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>If you could live and learn at a country club, where the facilities are clean, beautiful, spacious, environmentally friendly, where the dorms are like mansions or five-star hotels, where sprawling green grass and fresh air cover the campus, wouldn't you do it? And, if your friends, classmates, and professors were down-to-earth, hardworking, and fun-loving people from all socioeconomic backgrounds?</p>
<p>I actually had a coughing fit, stepping foot in NYC for the first time in four months, because for the first time in the 18 years I've lived in the city, I noticed the stench of exhaust and sewage in the air. =P</p>
<p>jaykoblives, if you genuinely want to be a part of the GS program, by all means, you have my full encouragement. Two of my friends, one at CC, the other at SEAS, told me in amusement about classes in which much, much older GS students ended up at the top, as the best writers and speakers. While GS students have the respect of their professors and many of their classmates and friends, the label that sets you apart will always be there.</p>
<p>let me chime in here:</p>
<p>1) "GS students" as people refer to them are almost always the older ones who sit at the front of the class, pay close attention and ask a million questions. You will not be seen in the same way.</p>
<p>2) GS students don't have campus housing which sucks.</p>
<p>3) You can easily be integrated into columbia community, but missing out on the dorm experience really sucks.</p>
<p>4) In terms of future employment and grad school, most places do not discriminate GS from CC / SEAS, it's all columbia university undergrad. The career office is open to all three, so all internships are open to GS, I know a few gs kids who are just around campus hanging out with everyone else and getting good jobs. Grad schools also probably don't care which school you came from.</p>
<p>5) amherst and columbia are very different schools. the student bodies are of similar quality, columbia has more name recognition because it's a massive research university, but amherst is very prestigious.</p>
<p>6) your decision should (among other things) be made on whether you want to go to a liberal arts college or a liberal arts college in a bigger research university. Columbia isn't nearly as cozy as Amherst but offers more opportunities for research and internship. </p>
<p>7) New York is a big factor, it is for 80% of people and decidedly not for 20% who dislike the people density, smells, traffic, and filth - still one of best cities in the world.</p>
<p>For what it's worth, I am a GS student and haven't experienced any resentment from peers. In fact, I don't think I've even been asked which college I attend, although I think it's fairly obvious. I agree with other posts suggesting that nobody really cares. </p>
<p>That being said 90%+ of my friends are CC students, and I also have CC roommates. I've never felt looked down upon, in fact quite the contrary. Due to my career in finance, my opinions are often solicited during discussions. </p>
<p>In terms of this college or that college, I think it's important to go where you are comfortable. While I'm not too familiar with Williams, I believe it's safe to assume it is quite a different experience from Columbia. One is not definitely better than the other, just different.</p>
<p>kwu: no i would not, which is why i chose nyc. and amherst lacks critical mass of minority students in absolute numbers, which makes it a less attractive place for me. i grew up a few years outside of hartford so i know the area well and though i find it quaint, it is homogenous. i wanted an urban space and the unpredictability of the city. i do like LACs and so i considered those that were within striking distances of major cities (you can guess a few of them pretty quickly i am sure). amherst was not one of them. </p>
<p>btw, your characterization sounds like an awfully polished admissions brochure - "down to earth?" ha. but i do have respect for amherst, and we have a lot in common as schools - its prez came from columbia, its former prez was a dean at columbia, we get to share harold varmus as an alum. not the educational environment i would pick for myself, but certainly 'compelling' as i said, and amherst's continued success is one i track.</p>
<p>Amherst put out exactly one US president who preceded the great depression :P.</p>
<p>COLUMBIA. Its in New York City and an Ivie school</p>
<p>I'm a dad, not a prospective student. I believe, given that disclaimer, that notwithstanding the University subset your diploma may reference, you are still a graduate of that University. Did you see Keith Olbermann's piece last night in reference to Ann Coulter's attempt to belittle his Cornell diploma?</p>