<p>mythmom is right. just because an institution has a high per capita endowment does not mean it will provide the 'better' education or 'better' opportunities. each situation is different. if a student is deciding between two schools, one with a sizably bigger per capita endowment than the other, which school is the better choice? we should not presume to know. success, happiness, fulfillment, and knowledge are unrelated to money.</p>
<p>If someone offers to sell you a timex or a rolex for 100 bucks. Buy the rolex.</p>
<p>Sure, but does buying the rolex ensure that it will be comfortable on your wrist? Maybe it does, because theoretically the rolex is more "high quality." But what if it just doesn't fit as well? What if the timex watch, though it's not the better deal, is the better pick for you because your wrist just feels better wearing it? Just because the rolex is a more highly respected brand doesn't mean that absolutely everyone likes wearing/feels comfortable wearing a rolex. </p>
<p>I think the point that morandi and mythmom are trying to get across is that a happy student (one who is at a college that "fits" with their personality and their needs) is more likely to dare to expand their academic/social horizons and, in doing so, actually make use of what the institution has to offer. I've used this example on other boards: my dad is a Harvard alum. Harvard's a rolex, right? Well, he had a fairly miserable time there, despite the resources/$$ available to him, because he felt uncomfortable there and so didn't bother to explore the school's offerings much. In retrospect, he says he should have gone to Oberlin (the timex in your example), because he would have been more comfortable with the feel/size/location of the school. Now, Oberlin doesn't have the per student resources that Harvard does, but my dad thinks he would have actually explored what Oberlin DID have to offer because he would have felt more at home to do so. Harvard's superior resources were rendered inconsequential by the fact that he was too uncomfortable there to make use of them. </p>
<p>No one's disputing that it's important to consider the monetary resources per student, only suggesting that this fact be considered along with the intangibles (how the student feels about a particular school), which can often have an impact on whether or not students are empowered to go out and make use of what's available.</p>
<p>I think in most cases most students will choose the most elite/prestigious school they can.</p>
<p>My S did choose Williams over Vassar and Bard.</p>
<p>However, they are those few individuals who are looking something else, something intangible -- a place that has some element that allows the student to be safe, to feel creative, to feel that he/she's found his/her peers, and they should be encouraged to make the decision they know is right for them and not fed bromides about stats or rankings.</p>
<p>That person, that person who locates his/her place, is thoughful and doesn't need endowment figures to find his/her spot.</p>
<p>Right, yeah, I should have made that a little more clear...prestige certainly does figure in the decision, it's just not worth splitting hairs over. :)</p>
<p>"In retrospect, he says he should have gone to Oberlin"</p>
<p>The exception to the rule and that's ok, there always is one. The retention rate at Harvard is 97%, as at Williams. Most of us as we age often question should I have made a different choice. How can one know that the decision not made, would have in fact been better, particularly at the time you had to make it, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. Thats why lists help. They offer with limitations aggregate impartial (mostly) information. Do with it what you will. The money issue is only one aspect, but an important one. When you give the best schools, with the longest histories, and best staff, the most money, it helps a great deal. If you let an average school spent 5% more per student not much would change. When the best schools get to spend close to 80k per student that has a great impact. That's why the competition to get in is so extreme.</p>
<p>OP-</p>
<p>Some of the things that helped my D and many of her peers to find the schools that fit them well: visiting the school while school was in session and having an overnight (good if this can be with a potential teammate or someone with another shared interest, in any case someone whom the applicant does not know in advance as that can be very revealing), sitting in on at least one class where the applicant knows a bit about the subject matter, wandering around "incognito" listening to and watching students and reading the bulletin boards, reading the website (including team and club pages), reading the college newspaper, and regularly reading the "Events" lists. </p>
<p>Dartmouth is another school that has many of the attributes your daughter is seeking, and has lots of cross-acceptances with Williams and Midd. It's bigger than the others and may not turn out to be what she wants but is a great school. A visit there, if she has time, might clarify her thoughts about what she's seen elsewhere.</p>
<p>Unless the OP's D uses her athletics or another sure hook, there's no guarantee , no matter what her scores, GPA and ECs, that she will be accepted to any of the "top echelon" schools she is considering. That's the cold, hard fact. We've known kids who've had the "profile", including legacy, and have only been accepted to their safety schools and we've known kids who have not had the profile and been accepted Ivy (obviously there was some compelling EC or activity that admissions paid attention to that year). That's not to say she shouldn't have an idea of where she might feel that the best fit is; just be realistic, not take rejection personally and use April to hone the decision when she knows what her choices really are. That's also not to say that a kid's 5th choice won't be the one he or she is ulitimately happy at - we've known those too!</p>
<p>I wrote:</p>
<p>"The schools w/ the bigger endowments have more generous financial aid, better facilities and offer more opportunities to their students in terms of internships, study abroad options and career counseling."</p>
<p>I didn't suggest that size of endowment should be determinative. </p>
<p>I didn't say that a school with a larger endowment provided a better education. In fact you can put me in the camp that believes quality small liberal arts colleges provide better undergraduate educations than Harvard. (One man's opinion). </p>
<p>But size of endowment is something to consider. It is easily comparable and has real consequences. To pick one example: the financial aid available at Williams or Amherst is clearly superior to that available at Georgetown. And that's a result of those schools' larger endowments. </p>
<p>I did said fit was the most important. If a kid has a strong preference for a particular school over more prominent colleges, I'd say go for it. It is the kid's life after all. </p>
<p>But permit me a moment of cynicism about "fit". People have a way of rationalizing their choices after the fact. I think that a kid that goes off to college and has a great experience says more that's positive about that kid than the school. Does anyone think that a kid that has a good experience at Amherst would not have had one at Williams? I don't. </p>
<p>I'd say something similar about the guy who says he should have gone to Oberlin. Just like there are people that are happy where ever they are, there are people who are never happy. We all know them. Who is to say that this person, had he gone to Oberlin, would not have spent his life telling his relatives he should have gone to Harvard? You just don't know.</p>
<p>I find nothing to argue with about the above post. I'm pretty sure most students could adapt themselves to either Amherst or Williams (and often the school chooses which the student will attend as icantfindaname has pointed out) but not all. And I think the experiences are more different than one would imagine just be looking at the schools on paper.</p>
<p>The mountains and isolation of Williams are very different from the more almost suburban (I said almost) flavor of Amherst. The entry system was something very vital to my S, and he wouldn't have found it at Amherst. We visited both schools numerous times and was always adamant that he preferred Williams. (I didn't agree so I am not promoting here.)</p>
<p>And in the case of the OP's daughter, I'm pretty sure she would find the Bates students a bit less, well less something and more something else. I don't want to put words here for fear of offending someone. The student bodies are not exactly alike, which I know for certain because as I've said, S's best friend attends and have met some of his friends and heard his stories.</p>
<p>His experience is much different from S's. Both ARE very happy with their own schools, however. I'm not sure each would be AS happy with the other. In fact, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't, though I imagine each would be happy enough.</p>
<p>Grace, and others. You are absolutely right about visiting while in session, doing overnights, visiting again, wandeding around,... The summer visits we did were "first-cuts" but certainly don't give the complete picture. We are fortunate to live within 3-4 hour drive of these schools, so it will be possible to go back. Our son is at Dartmouth, and our daughter wants "her own" school, so she is not interested (maybe a silly reason, but it is what it is). Middlebury, Williams, Haverford, and Bates are mostly under consideration at this point, and if Haverford was in more of a Williamstown or Middlebury type of location I suspect it might have floated very close to the top - but she seems fairly comfortable with all of these at this point. I am sure Carleton would have been right up there too, if she wanted to venture outside the NE. So now it is time for closer looks. There has been some air of elitism and "we are better than they", related to Williams, in some of the discussions in this string of posts that, to be honest, has given me some pause. Then mythmom usually brings this back down to earth and is reassuring that things have changed (thanks!).</p>
<p>Yes, CuriousDad -- isn't it funny that people trying to tout their schools are actually doing the opposite? A Middlebury poster is doing that in a battle with Haverfordites.</p>
<p>The Smith women want to top Mount Holyoke.</p>
<p>A truly secure person with not compare his/her experience with others.</p>
<p>My S is completely down to earth and his reasons for preferring Williams are: the mountains, the ironic humor of the people, the entry system, the music department and the English department.</p>
<p>This equation may be totally different for your D.</p>
<p>These kids are opinionated. He didn't like the honor code at Haverford (too much of a cynic -- didn't want to write an essay) or the extreme environmentalism at Middlebury (we don't have chains or billboard in VT) -- again, a New Yorker and too much of a cynic.</p>
<p>Your D may be totally opposite, or the very warmth down to earthness of the Bates students may be her heart's desire and there is something very lovely about their campus, too.</p>
<p>Don't write Williams off yet, but it may not be her favorite.</p>
<p>All the best. And I think wanting a different school from her bro is perfectly legitimate. </p>
<p>Keep us posted. What an exciting time!</p>
<p>A truly secure person with not compare his/her experience with others.</p>
<p>A truly secure movie director would not enter their film in the Acadamy Awards, a truly secure college football system would not rank teams, a truly secure tv show would not enter the Emmy's, a truly secure Broadway play would not...on and on into infinity...nobody need believe the rankings that's up to them, and in the long run the chances that this or any student will have to make any choices about attending Williams are about 17%, not really high enough to get excited about. Find the schools you like, apply, and then hope like hell you get the chance. This coming year will be the hardest ever.</p>
<p>My daughter goes to Middlebury and plays on their club water polo team. Loves every bit of the school. food is fabulous with lots of organic vegetarian options. My D only owns sweatpants and jeans- nothing designer at all. She has the greatest group of friends imaginable. Her course work is challenging and got a job as a freshman working in her chem prof. lab. lots of volunteer opportunities as well. She hikes every weekend and spent a long weekend rock climbing in Acadia. My youngest is applying to Williams, so who knows.</p>
<p>I'm so glad your daughter is doing so well! Middlebury seems an amazing school.</p>