<p>CuriousD: I'm new to this discussion & am going back to your first inquiries (post 1 & 7). I really can't add anything new to what has been said about the various colleges on the list. On your list I'm personally familiar with Williams, Swarthmore, & Haverford. My new voice is as follows.</p>
<p>I strongly recommend when evaluating all these schools, & any others, that your daughter sit in at least one class or do an overnight on campus. My son, who just finished Williams orientation, found these the most useful in deciding to which schools to apply & ultimately which school to attend. Fortunately, he could re-visit colleges in the NE. As he did, his interest in the colleges shifted over the application period.</p>
<p>As parents, we emphasized thinking about where he would not only get the kind of educational experience he wanted, but also the place that he would be the happiest for 4 years. He was clear he wanted a place that valued mentoring students & a place where intellectual curiosity was supported in mostly seminars or classes that involved interaction among students & with the professors, which is how he became most attracted to the LACs. In looking back, I think this approach was the most supportive of our son. As with others here, I agree that "fit" is extremely important & this was the way we approached it.</p>
<p>Which orientation trip did he do? Did he enjoy it? My S absolutely loved his, and he loved his entry, too. I think he's sad that he's a sophomore!</p>
<p>Some of the comments have raised more questions, and a small concern. Admission is never guarranteed, but my D has the scores, GPA, varsity sport, extracuriculars, and just down-to-earth well balanced person stuff that she would probably get in to most of Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, Harvard, Yale or Princeton. Of those only Williams is of some interest at this point, along with Middlebury - and, yes, Bates. Still a bit conflicted. If she is saying that Bates just feels right and like a better fit (and we could see that right away - at least on the first visit, after visiting Williams and Middlebury), should we try to push towards those other schools? I really don't think so, but it is an unusual situation. Also, with her credentials she may actually NOT get in to Bates (but get in to the other ones), according to some, because it would appear to most that it was just a safety for her and she would have no intent of going there. That would be really weird, and could potentially mean she would have to "settle" for Williams, because she did not get in to Bates. How strange is that. She will be doing overnights at these three top schools, and that should help a great deal.</p>
<p>My older son is at an Ivy and two of his friends go to Bates; he made the comment the other day that he thinks his friends at Bates are every bit as interesting as those he has met at his Ivy and, in fact, have had more opportunities to do research, travel, etc. Your daughter can get an amazing education at Bates and the pride in school and the lasting friendships are amazing.</p>
<p>Curious, Is ED an option for her? If not, I'd suggest that she apply to a balanced list and wait until the acceptances come through before wrestling further with which is good/better/best. Decision time is still 8 months away and these things have a way of taking care of themselves.</p>
<p>monrath. I don't think she will be doing ED. None of the schools have clearly emerged as that clear of a "front runner" at this point, so I think she will be submitting her applications and then weighing her options in April. Like you said, there is plenty of time before decision time, and I am pretty sure she will be visiting those that appear to be her top 2-3 while school is in session (and not just be left with the empty summer campus impression) before then.</p>
<p>Curious Dad -- responding to this concern mentioned earlier, "Also, with her credentials she may actually NOT get in to Bates (but get in to the other ones), according to some, because it would appear to most that it was just a safety for her and she would have no intent of going there..." </p>
<p>If Bates is truly at the top -- or one of the tops on her list -- I'd encourage her to continue to demonstrate her strong interest. If she hasn't already done so, encourage her to interview with the admissions office -- an ideal opportunity to discuss why Bates is a fit for her. If a Bates rep visits her school or your town, attend and sign in. If she hasn't already signed up for the mailing list through the Bates website, do that, too. She can also convey her strong interest in the Bates supplemental application. Anything she can do to let them know it's not "just a safety" -- and, with her potential and stats, I'm sure the admission office would be thrilled to know that she doesn't consider Bates a safety school.</p>
<p>I find this board SO UNREAl at times. I appreciate all the comments that talk to fit, that minimize these absurd differences too many want to make among all these elite schools. I have had one at a Patriot League school, one at a NESCAC, and one hopefully going to an IVY (recruited).Each has and hopefully will get a great education. If someone can't get a GREAT education at any of the top 50, let alone top 100 schools in this country then something is wrong. And prestige? 99 % of the people in this country have no idea what NESCAC stands for. (I will grant the point that admission staff to professional, grad schools might make some distinction for academic rigor of schools but you can't convince me that top graduates of any of these schools aren't getting into top programs). And if anyone believes that graduating from "top schools" in a sure ticket to professional success, then one hasn't been in government or business world. There are successful folks from ALL sorts of schools. You have to go out and compete on your own.I think we are driving our kids nuts with these "supposed " distinctions between all these top notch schools we have in our country. Sorry, rant over.</p>
<p>"If someone can't get a GREAT education at any of the top 50:</p>
<p>Good point, however, when one ponders the question should a student who in theory can go to any of the top 10 schools, wants to go to Bates, a great school, but as the 25th ranked LAC for what that ranking is worth, is not in the top 50 schools, then I guess you offer what are intended to be positive comments that going to the say 125th best school might not be as good an idea as going to one of the top 10 based on the fact that it "felt better". I doubt that many that post on the Williams thread go out of their way to post on other threads that Williams is better than any place else. If someone asks the question you answer, if you care to, and you have a free moment, and you think the question is real. Complete aside Patriot NESCAC and Ivy in the way you seem to use them are sports leagues, you could drive a fleet of trucks through the difference in academics within each.</p>
<p>"And if anyone believes that graduating from "top schools" in a sure ticket to professional success, then one hasn't been in government or business world."</p>
<p>I think that is a mine is bigger than yours comment that really doesn't factor much on boards without real names and facts.</p>
<p>My oldest daughter was recruited by Williams but wanted to play DI sports. She attended a very nice school in upstate NY and majored in molecular biology, and doing quite well, thank you. That's called fit.My second attends what you might term a "lesser" NESCAC cause he wanted to be at a LAC and in urban setting. that too is called fit. My third (hopefully, knock on wood) will attend an IVY. She turned down more prominent first rate universities with more powerful programs in her sport because she found a school with the academics she likes as well as a first rate(but not top) sports program. Again, you say it, ...no, nevermind. I find your statement that "you can drive a fleet of trucks through the difference in academics within each" (speaking to Patriot, NASCAC, and IVY leagues completely elitist. which schools are you talking about exactly?? American, Bucknell, Trinity , Conn College, Cornell, UPENN ??? are you kidding me? All these schools have terrific faculty. In fact, there are great faculty throughout our US system of higher education, in the UC, SUNY, etc schools. Sorry, can't and wont by your reasoning. These artificial distinctions between good schools is crazy</p>
<p>A Chevy will get you to your destination as will a Bentley, the Gap can sell you clothes as can Armani, you can live in Buffalo or Beverly Hills, eat at Mesa Grill or McDonalds. The Oklahoma Sooners play div l football with a lifetime winning % of .76 as do the New Mexico State Aggies at .36. Last year the patriots were 16- 0 regular season and the dolphins 1-15 but they both played pro ball. There are differences in schools as there as differences in most things like it or not. That’s why people make lists. I didn’t make them. The real crime in education is that they all cost about the same. You pay the same price for the Chevy (Holy Cross for example) because the Bentley dealer (Yale) won't let you on the lot. They say pound salt to 90% of the students who apply, and that's after telling most to not even bother, and you think I’m elitist? You can't hear a thing about Obama without being told he went to Harvard. No one talks about where McCain went to school.</p>
<p>When parents in Chicago "strike" because they want their kids to go to the schools that spend way more per student, everyone chimes in... yeh... why should those rich kids get a better education. When Williams or Harvard spends 75k a year educating each student because they can afford you, you want to pretend it's the same education as a school that spends 30K. Sorry, but it is not. The fit agrument doesn't work for elite schools because they determine the fit 80-90% of the time not the student.</p>
<p>Wow! A Cross education equated with a Chevy... guess we will just disagree on this one my friend ( by the way, prepare to spend some considerable time in at least purgatory ; those Jesuits can be tough)</p>
<p>Icantfindaname; actually Obama went to Occidental and Columbia for his undergraduate education and Harvard for law school;<br>
We always hear that McCain went to Annapolis (5th from the bottom of class) and never went on to graduate school after the four years.</p>
<p>I just said he went to Harvard, which is true, I did not suggest he did not go anyplace else.. Most people only list the school they got the highest degree from.</p>
<p>So if it is a given that someone who graduated Harvard Law is smarter than someone who graduated 5th from the bottom Annapolis why is there opposition to the fact that someone who graduates in the top half of Williams is smarter than someone who graduates at a comparable level from Holy Cross. Higher test scores going in, better teachers, more resources, equal a better product. Or maybe all those with grad degrees are smarter than all those without. Does a masters from University of Arkansas--Monticello trump a Yale undergrad? So why go to Bates when you can go to Yale Williams or Harvard?</p>
<p>i'm sorry, i just don't get it. why not go to Bates? if one has the choice between these schools and chooses Bates, why is that a problem? it's not about smarts, it's about choice.</p>
<p>I agree that fit is critical and ought to trump just about everything else. </p>
<p>But on element of the ratings is objective and is in my view important and that's per capita endowment. </p>
<p>The schools w/ the bigger endowments have more generous financial aid, better facilities and offer more opportunities to their students in terms of internships, study abroad options and career counseling. These things are valuable and they cost money.</p>
<p>Sometimes that's true, but sometimes being the best candidate in a class brings more opportunities than competing with others. Calmom has many posts about her son's success after he left his elite school and paid his way through Humboldt State. He got a very prestigious DC internship that she feels wouldn't have come his way at his way more elite school.</p>