<p>mythmom, if you wander over to the Swarthmore thread, you’ll notice that I have made far more substantive contributions to this mirror thread. I see it as only fair to read and occasionally comment on the Williams side, just as there has been (more argumentative) crossover the other way 'round.</p>
<p>“I find it interesting that every response on this thread (as far as my limited memory can tell) is from a parent, rather than a student.”</p>
<p>To be fair, there haven’t been as many posts on this thread. I appreciate all the responses whether they are from parent, student, prospective student, Williams, or Swarthmore graduates/students. They are all thoughtful and honest (albeit some misguided) answers that may or may not support my overnight experiences.</p>
<p>^Well said. Trust your gut, though also acknowledge the inevitable snapshot of one visit.</p>
<p>clariss, these are two of the very few institutions that have enough to offer to even consider turning down HYPSM…</p>
<p>congratulations</p>
<p>you can’t go wrong either way</p>
<p>Clarris:</p>
<p>In my case I already knew where I wanted to go, but then there is the rhetoric, the charm, the salesmanship of the admissions process.</p>
<p>First, what you are is not what you are to become. You are as a butterfly, a larvae that changes into a flower. </p>
<p>Williams challenges your every natural part, such that you will achieve more than you thought possible. Great institutions do this. Swarthmore is also a great institution, more so, such that that the elder parent’s commentators understand this. Williams College challenge you where you thought little possible. I know, I live it and have seen its remarkable influence.</p>
<p>The irony is in the process whereby you rise above your expectations and render more the profound articulations of your harmonic scale. Consider beauty as the quality that gives pleasure to the mind and the senses and you will find Williams College at its door. </p>
<p>Consider Williams.</p>
<p>Best wishes and cheers.</p>
<p>
I hope you don’t mind my cutting and pasting the above comment from your thread on the Swarthmore board. Your observation really struck a chord of recognition for me because it summed up my son’s feeling about Williams. </p>
<p>After visiting and meeting several students (he didn’t overnight) he concluded that this was whom he wanted to become. The development from eager highschooler to confident, accomplished graduate was subtle and evolutionary but his peers at Williams provided the model and the path from watcher to do-er.</p>
<p>The difference, I think, is not the degree of intellectual curiosity or academic dedication. The difference is more how Williams students react to challenge. Several years back a CC parent decribed them as ducks – gliding along effortless on the pond’s surface while paddling furiously beneath. To me this kind of grace under pressure is a big part of the Williams persona.</p>
<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>
<p>^If I may poke my head in once more… the ducks metaphor is quite apt. Stress remains (trapped) under the surface. Swarthmore’s equivalent would be “misery poker”–who can complain the most? All in jest, of course. There are pros and cons to both types.</p>
<p>No, I don’t think the stress remains trapped. That’s where the function of athletics comes in. Williams students are likely to get out there and kick a soccer ball, play broomball, have a snowball fight or do something energetic. </p>
<p>I know “misery poker” is meant to be taken ironically, but it always seemed to me to be a less heathy reaction to academic and social tension.</p>
<p>EDIT: After writing the above I read this article about a hapless athlete at Grinnell. Maybe there more to be said about staying indoors and complaining. :)</p>
<p>
Hence why you are pro-Williams! 
I know for me personally, it would be a lot less mentally/emotionally healthy to feel inhibited about complaining about work. Misery poker is kind of how my high school operates too. Plus, I’m too inept at physical activity to use it as a stress-reliever–I’ll dance (badly) to procrastinate from work, but it needs to be mentally separate from work.</p>
<p>I just want to add to momrath’s comments. When I was at Williams, I was most definitely a non-athlete, but I learned the value of physical activity as a healthy way to release stress, and I still value it today. There were and still are lots of opportunities for those not involved in varsity or club sports to be active. There are PE classes for yoga, dance, self-defense, water aerobics and other activities that do not require any particular athletic ability. And there are beginning level courses for students who just want to try things. </p>
<p>I wouldn’t at all say from my own or my son’s experience that we feel or felt “inhibited about complaining” about work. It’s more that lots of people found other things to do about the stress and work. That said, I strongly suspect that many Swarthmore students have the same attitude as Williams students do and use physical activity to balance out the mental and academic stress.</p>
<p>^^^^ Just to support what nceph said. Unlike her gifted son, my S is a total non-athlete, but he has taken weight training and hiking for his gym. But more than that, he treasures his hikes and wanderings in the Hopkins Forest. Watching folks be physical has made him more physical and instead of lying on the couch watching TV when he’s feeling antsy he says, “I think I’ll take a walk,” and goes to our local duck pond for laps.</p>
<p>He reads outside and does work outside.</p>
<p>All these are post-Williams activities.</p>
<p>I am not comparing this with Swat which, as nceph so wisely says, may be exactly the same, just corroborating her perspective.</p>
<p>There is a lot of stress in most colleges. Williams is not an exception. Different students deal with it differently, but athletes do not fare much better, as a group, than non-athletic students. Many people in the college are trying to address the dangerous myth of “effortless perfection” but there still are many “breakdowns” in different forms. It doesn’t seem to me that Williams is in this regard in a better position than other demanding colleges for ambitious young people; but it isn’t worse than others either. There is something in the very structure of such institutions that makes it difficult to push through the sophomore year in particular with the energy and enthusiasm characteristic of HS & freshmen year.</p>
<p>There actually seems to be quite a bit of focus in national college administrator groups on the issues of sophmore year and how to better meet the particular needs of sophmores – who are are bit in limbo between the first-year newness and the connectedness that comes from being a major in a department and so forth.</p>
<p>UPDATE
Here’s my dilemma: Williams gave me about $1000 more than Swarthmore. Cornell, however, gave me $10-11,000 more than either of them. How do I go about calling W/S and asking for a better aid package? Should I do it myself or get a parent to call? I have no idea what to say besides the fact that I’m negotiating my aid package. Would it even do any good?</p>
<p>Definitely call them and have Cornell’s finaid package on hand. Williams tries to match packages of comparable schools. Otherwise, $40,000 less over four years is no small amount…</p>
<p>clariss, definitely contact Williams financial aid office about the discrepancy between their package and Cornell’s. I’ll have to let someone else respond on how best to do this – you or parent, telephone or e-mail. I would think both in person would be the most effective, but the point is to just be direct and lay out the figures. This is not an unusal event for them.</p>
<p>Clariss, I attended Previews with my daughter last year and the FA officer made a point to say they were very eager to see competing need-based offers. This is all part of the process. Either you or your parents can make the call.</p>
<p>I didn’t want to make a big deal about my decision, but I thought I should just post and explain my reasoning for my choice (so those of you who have been following this and its mirror thread have an end).</p>
<p>I visited both Williams and Swarthmore overnight, but I wasn’t convinced by either visit. Honestly, I was so nervous afterward because I couldn’t decide after Williams (I didn’t visit Previews, I visited the weekend after) when I thought I would know after the overnight. I was worried that maybe I was wrong and neither school was right for me since I didn’t love either one. I never got that “aha! now THIS is where I want to go” moment that everyone seems to talk about.</p>
<p>Anyways, I appealed to both Swarthmore and Williams for financial aid and decided that whoever gave me more money would be the school I would attend. Williams gave me an additional $5000, Swarthmore nothing.</p>
<p>But even before I heard from the financial aid offices, I talked to a few people who knew me very, very well. I’ll be honest - I was leaning towards Williams from the very start (I hid this so I could get somewhat more objective answers…though I guess it didn’t turn out that way haha). I thought the overnight would totally convince me, but…it didn’t. Now, however, I think that might have been a good thing that I didn’t have a totally perfect overnight experience. I am no longer going into college expecting every part of the college life to be absolutely perfect and the best experience EVER, with no flaws. I think many students, especially ED, go into college with that mentality - and when little things start to go wrong, it seems like the world is ending because of sky-high expectations.</p>
<p>Oddly enough, despite the initial misgivings I had from both overnights, I’m completely at peace. I tend to overthink things, and now that it’s over I can rest and look forward to next year. I’m happy that I chose Williams, and I guess I knew, deep down, that was where I would end up from the beginning. Though Swarthmore will always have a special place in my heart as well. I’d like to thank all of you for giving me your opinions and accounts about each school - perhaps I’ll see you all next year with posts on my experience at Williams!</p>
<p>PS: If you are curious or want me to elaborate on why I chose Williams over Swarthmore (besides the financial aid) or need help making a decision yourself, feel free to PM me, I’d be happy to tell you.</p>
<p>Welcome! We’ll be going to the same school then. :)</p>
<p>With the realistic attitude that you have, I think that you will enjoy your years at Williams. You may start by reading course offerings online - each course description is 2-3 dense paragraphs long, so there is a lot of reading right there! It seems unbearable that you’ll probably take only 32 courses, most of them seem so exciting…</p>
<p>Enjoy!</p>