<p>hahahaha no offense taken~! I am just too happy to be offended in this state of mind. BTW, I sounded obnoxious too. In reality, I am not really not this kind of a guy. my apologies!</p>
<p>mikeyD222, how many 3.5 gpa students get into Williams? What if he is both a basketball and a baseball player?</p>
<p>hmm Many people on this discussion make Williams sound very...saddening. I applied there ED even though the people I had worked with at Rice and Duke said I had a very good chance of acceptance to their schools. To me Williams seems like the best place to get my education because of all the good things i had heard and researched about it (yes I took in the bad things too). Was I wrong?</p>
<p>gimpage, if you got into Williams, you are not wrong.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>Was I wrong?</p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>No. </p>
<p>It's a very good school with wonderful professors and friendly students. For some majors (such as art history), it is probably the best school in the country.</p>
<p>The athletic emphasis and the drinking culture are trends that are disturbing to some of us who go way back with the school. But, neither is at a level where someone with more academic interests couldn't find like-minded friends.</p>
<p>My daughter's friend is a freshman there this year. Quiet girl, very studious, not athletic, not a drinker. She likes Williams very much (although she has mentioned that the drinking in her entry is a little crazy).</p>
<p>I visited Williams with a friend of mine who goes there over the Halloween weekend. I can definitely confirm that its a 'party school'. Everyone was partying and drinking over the weekend. I had a lot of fun, but I could see how some people might not enjoy this type of scene. Is it a jock school? In my opinion it is.
But it is definitely, definitely not a white kid school. Williams was <em>very</em> diverse, it was definitely a mixed bunch, and even better, everyone was getting along fine. It's definitely a great atmosphere.</p>
<p>You did visit Williams Halloween weekend, which I am sure meant more parties that usual...</p>
<p>Yeah....</p>
<p>I remember Halloween was always insane. Friends from other colleges would always flood into Williams for the parties. Everyone dressed up, and we even went trick or treating a few years at professors' houses.</p>
<p>D - Stark.... Unfortunately, I would venture to say that the vast majority of 3.5/1400 GPA students are not accepted. I really don't know what academic rating this would correspond to. But I would guess a 4 or a 5. You could certainly get accepted if you were one of the 66 "tipped," but you probabaly will not qualify as a "protect."</p>
<p>Are you a URM or a legacy?</p>
<p>I just read all the posts since my last, and I want you all to consider one other anomaly of Williams that may contribute to its high athletic success against other NESCAC schools: Williams has been need-blind for many years, and for many athletic kids from middle-class backgrounds, that makes all the difference. I turned down Cornell without even thinking about it because my aid package from Williams was so superior. Again, that's almost 20 years ago, but you get the drift. There may be a substantial number of non-tips who come because they get to compete for good teams and the FA packages are great.</p>
<p>And, you cannot underestimate coaching. Williams has been blessed with great coaches. I will just use this small example from my track experience with Farley: the only All-America guy we had in my first two years at Williams was a guy Farley saw shooting hoops inside the fieldhouse during indoor track practice. Farley asked the kid if he did any sports, found out the kid had never played any sports (not even in high school), and asked him to triple jump for us. Three years later the kid was an All-America 800 meter runner. Coaching counts.</p>
<p>But Amherst and Middlebury are also need-blind. And probably many of the other NESCAC schools too. </p>
<p>I'm going to step out of the debate on this issue on this forum. As I've stated above, I do support athletics at Williams, but I am concerned that it has become too important a part of the Williams persona. I don't think this is the forum to hash this out. I don't want prospective students to be overly concerned about this issue - at its heart Williams is first and foremost a great undergraduate academic institution. As I've posted otherwise here on CC, if I were a high school student today, I'd still pick Williams as my clear first choice.</p>
<p>I really trust Williams to make good policy decisions. One thing that I bet everyone on this forum didn't know is that the research done at Williams in the field of "higher education education economics" is some of the best in the field (if not the best). Many colleges use research done at Williams to establish and alter their own institutional policies.
<a href="http://www.williams.edu/wpehe/%5B/url%5D">http://www.williams.edu/wpehe/</a></p>
<p>They put a lot of thought into the admissions decisions, and the overall advantages of admitting low band athletes must exceed the overall disadvantages. Williams is huge on diversity (not only racial, but talent, academic interests etc.) I get the sense that they do not want the college to have just one type of student.</p>
<p>I wish we could have more posters emphasizing the fact that Williams offers excellent academics - the notion of Williams as an academically overrated jock school seems to be deterring potential applicants (see the "Williams College" thread) and I'm sure none of you (being alumni and the like) would like that. </p>
<p>I invite more current Williams students like haon and bex56 to post and put the whole discussion in perspective..</p>
<p>Hello,</p>
<p>I hosted prefrosh on Halloween night. That night was probably one of two nights where the entire campus just decided to let loose. </p>
<p>The professors that I've had challenged everyone in their classes to do their best. Williams is student-athlete, not student-jock.</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>the notion of Williams as an academically overrated jock school seems to be deterring potential applicants (see the "Williams College" thread) and I'm sure none of you (being alumni and the like) would like that. </p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Actually, as an alum, my attitude is that Williams made its bed, so it can lie in it. A famous football coach, Bill Parcells always says, "Fellas, you are what you are."</p>
<p>I have no earthy idea why the college made the decision to emphasize athletics.</p>
<p>BTW, I have never said that Williams is "over-rated" academically. I think that the quality of the professors, courses, resources, and a large chunk of the student body is as good as it gets. A lot of places are excellent academically.</p>
<p>gandalf--</p>
<p>I think too frequently discussion about college is dominated by prospective students and alumns--two groups of people that tend to be quite out of touch with the current culture and atmosphere of the school. I'll post more at length about this tomorrow and try to clear up some of the false perceptions about Williams that seem to run rampant on this discussion board.</p>
<p>YO YO haon,
When are ya gonna clear up the false perceptions? Would be mucho appreciated.</p>
<p>Well, I'm another alum who got a great education there. I assumed my d. would go there as well, until we visited. Midweek. October. She was shocked by the amount of drinking and, more to the point, the fact that students felt unable to escape it. It was to a degree far greater than we had seen at other schools, and she felt, rightly or wrongly, that it most definitely would affect academic quality. Although accepted, she chose to go elsewhere. She was "deterred" by both the drinking and the stress on athletics.</p>
<p>Anyhow, it doesn't really matter that much. The reality is that the caliber of both students and faculty at any one of the top 25 schools is terrific, and if you feel comfortable, that's all that matters. Williams IS an academically excellent school.</p>
<p>We were actually more surprised by the lack of economic diversity - which, frankly, isn't different from the days when I attended. With 60% of parents able to afford to pay full freight, and fewer than 10% receiving Pell Grants, it is among the least economically diverse schools (among the top ones) in the country. Looking back at my experience, I can say without question that this affected the quality of discourse in the classroom.</p>
<p>"Looking back at my experience, I can say without question that this affected the quality of discourse in the classroom."</p>
<p>howso?</p>
<p>Williams is making great strides toward economic diversity though. They're lowering the loan expectations. About 100 current students will graduate debt free after four years (Families under 20k). For students whose parents make between 20k and 40k the loan expectation is only 3,900 after FOUR YEARS. This is amazing considering that at most other top schools, students borrow around 3,900 PER YEAR. The savings are tremendous. Future Williams grads will be able to pay back their loans within their first year of employment. Also, it makes going to grad school a much more feasible option since the loan expectations are so low. Williams is using its financial resources to attract the best students from all walks of life, and from all socioeconomic levels. </p>
<p>There's drinking at all of the top colleges/universities. The drinking that I see here is not that different than what I saw at Upenn, Notre Dame, G-town, or Bowdoin last year. For all the prefrosh/accepted students, there are always options other than drinking/ partying. Tonight, I went bowling for three hours with my friends, and the College paid for it. About half my friends drink, and half abstain completely. Is there a difference in their "enjoyment" of Williams? Not really. The two groups just find different ways.</p>