Wondering About Financial Aid For Columbia

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>First post here so please pardon my ignorance about things. My daughter wants to apply ED so we're trying to figure out what sort of financial aid we might expect. We have done the EFC calculator and got a figure of about $23,000. With help from grandparents we can probably swing this, although we might need a small loan to cover it all. </p>

<p>Columbia's website says the package will include student loans and work study which daughter is willing to accept. But we wonder how much of the remaining financial aid will be in the form of loans and how much will be grants. Trying to handle loans on top of perhaps having to borrow money to meet the EFC could place this school out of reach. </p>

<p>I've been lurking here for a while and know the conventional wisdom about not applying ED if financial aid is a concern. But I'm just trying to get a better picture of how Columbia awards their aid to begin with before I can determine if it really is a concern. If they tend to award it all in grants other than the work study and student loans, we can handle it. If they expect the student to take out loans and expect the parents to borrow to cover the EFC as well as take out loans as financial aid, then we might have a problem. So I guess my question comes down to wondering who here has experience with Columbia's aid, and how they usually break down the award.</p>

2

<p>I PM'ed you a link to the College Net Cost calculator, which should help you. (We're not allowed to post links on CC.) Let me know if you have any questions.</p>

3

<p>Using some round numbers and assuming your EFC is $23,000 and total cost of attendance is $44,000, it's likely your financial aid package would look something like this:</p>

<p>Student Loan $2,500
Work Study $2,500
Family Contribution $18,000
Grant $21,000</p>

<p>Total $44,000</p>

<p>The family contribution is expected to be paid from savings, student income (summer job, for example), parent income, and, if necessary, parent loan.</p>

4

<p><quote>the conventional wisdom about not applying ED if financial aid is a concern</quote></p>

<p>I don't really get this...
no financial aid is offered to ED applicants?...please tell me this is not true. : (</p>

5

<p>Thanks for responding so quickly. Lurkness, that sight asks for a lot of personal info. Social Security Number? It made me rather wary. </p>

<p>Dadx4, thanks for your info. It would be fantastic if the EFC was all they actually expected you to contribute. I guess I've read here about some schools giving you huge loans and calling that your aid package so I'm paranoid about Columbia doing the same. Private school tuition for quite a few years has prevented us from saving much for college tuition. It was worth it since she's received a terrific education thus far, but it does have a ripple effect on our finances. Columbia is daughter's dream school for so many reasons and I would love to think it could all work out (of course getting admitted is the biggest hurdle!)</p>

<p>Allen, don't worry, it isn't true. They do give financial aid to ED admits. I'm just trying to understand how much of their aid is likely to be loans versus grants.</p>

6

<p>From the FA website:</p>

<p>"The standard need-based financial aid award for 1st year students includes $2,350 in work study eligibility, $1,000 Perkins Loan and $2,625 Subsidized Stafford Loan"</p>

<p>My understanding is that they cover the remainder of demonstrated need with grants. They will offer the family loans to cover the EFC, but of course those are optional; we turned them down.</p>

<p>Because our need wasn't large this year, we didn't get grants. My expectation is that next year (after a steep drop in income) our expanded need will be covered by grants, not loans.</p>

<p>But before you do apply ED, I thnk this is a good conversation to have with the FA office. I have found them to be very responsive and helpful when i've called them.</p>

7

<p>Thanks for the helpful info garland. I'll give them a call and see what they have to say. </p>

<p>On a different note if you and Dadx4 wouldn't mind sharing, are your sons/daughters(?) happy with Columbia academically/socially? It seems like the perfect place for my daughter. She craves the excitement of the city and the idea of internships there, the classicism of the core, the intellectualism of the student body, the quality of the english department, etc... She is quite independent and mature, but I wonder how much of a romanticized view she has of the school or if it really is a great as she imagines. </p>

<p>Since I'm new at this I'm not sure if I'm even allowed to go off topic like this, so correct me if I'm straying. Thanks.</p>

8

<p>Hey, it's your thread and you can go any where you want! :)</p>

<p>I think my S is happy with the academics. He loved the first year Core class, Lit Hum, was not as happy with the second year one. I think it has a lot to do with profs. He was unhappy with having to take two years of language,but accepts that it was caused somewhat by choices he made, so he dealt with it. He really likes his major courses (Psych) and is trying out some Astro as a concentration, just for the fun of it. overall, feels very challenged and like he's learning a tremendous amount.</p>

<p>Socially, he met people on his floor right away, and had a great time the first couple years both on campus and exploring the city. He loves living in the city and has been to all boroughs and many neighbrohoods. Saw the NY PHilharmonic for free as a frosh because of the program they have of giving away events tickets, has been to several Broadway shows, lots of oncampus shows, tons of art museums. He's ridden the Roosevelt Island Tram and the Staten Island Ferry and hung out in Central Park. Overall, I think CU definitely lives up to its billing.</p>

9

<p>Wow! It sounds great. Think they'd let me sign up? Glad to hear your son liked the Lit Hum class. That's the one my daughter is really excited about as well as the music and art core classes. Frontiers of Science... not really her thing. Did your son go with a single or a double room freshman year? I only ask since you mentioned he made friends on his floor and I wonder how hard that is to do if you have a single.</p>

<p>My daughter works at Barnes and Noble and is stashing money away like mad for living expenses next year. If she's fortunate enough to get in, maybe she too can take advantage of all of those wonderful opportunities you mentioned!</p>

10

<p>
[quote]
Lurkness, that sight asks for a lot of personal info. Social Security Number? It made me rather wary.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You don't have to put in your SS number. Only the fields with asterisks are "required." Just ignore the other ones. I would never reveal my SS number in a case like that.</p>

11

<p>Our situation worked out much like post #3. They expected approximately $5,000 loans\work study (which you can take or turn down or do a combo of the 2). we are expected to come up with our EFC (which was pretty close to the calculated number we got using the calculator you mentioned) and then a grant for the difference. We only have one year's experience with Columbia and I sure hope Year 2 is figured the same (I think it will be). I understand your nervousness until you see it in writing. The first thing I did when the admissions package came via Fed Ex was rip it open and turn to the financial aid letter. Then I called our son out of class at the high school and told him he could go to Columbia :-) He didn't have his act together to do any Early Decisions (Yes, he was a December 30\31 filer..............oh how happy I am it is over!)</p>

<p>momoffive</p>

12

<p>If your financial aid offer seems too low when you get it, you could always appeal. The appeals officers in the fin aid department are great. After I got my fin aid award over the summer, my dad was told by his doctor that he needed hearing aids, but insurance wouldn't cover them. I sent an e-mail to the appeals committee, and two weeks later I got a revised award (I know it sounds like a cheesy lawyer commercial, sorry). Almost the entire cost of the hearing aids was added in grants. They're really flexible and willing to help.</p>

13

<p>amom62--he lived in a single in John Jay the first year. It was a floor that gelled, and a group of them went out together a lot. Apparently that happens often, but not always.</p>

<p>I know what you mean though; I'll never live on the Upper West Side with bunch of people my age taking all kind of cool courses. (I just get to pay for it, :rolleyes:.</p>

14

<p>Amom, the reason that people are wary of applying ED is that "EFC" for purposes of financial aid is what the college says it is, not what the FAFSA (federal government) says it is. The FAFSA EFC governs elibility for federally-subsidized aid (Stafford & Perkins loans, work-study, Pell grants).</p>

<p>So to start with, I don't know WHICH EFC calculator you used to come up with the $23,000. Columbia, like almost all elite private colleges, uses "Institutional Methodology", which means that they take into account assets that are not included in the FAFSA. For example, your home equity would not be included in the FAFSA, but would be considered in Insitutional Methodology -- but not all colleges will treat home equity the same way. Obviously, that can make a pretty big difference in terms of your ability to pay.</p>

<p>So if you mistakenly ran the calculator using "Federal Methodology", the first thing you need to do is go back and run it again using "Institutional Methodology."</p>

<p>Another area which typically causes problems is income from self-employment. Colleges very often will go in and add back some of the deductions that might have been taken off the schedule C, such as depreciation or vehicle expenses. </p>

<p>The less complicated your financial situation is, the more likely it is that an online calculator will be accurate. The more complex, the less you can rely on the calculators. It is not all bad news -- colleges have discretion to take into account the amounts you pay for private school tuition for siblings, unusual medical expenses, or other unusual circumstances -- so sometimes the news is much better than the online calculator would have you believe. </p>

<p>Columbia is also a member of the "568 Group" - which is a group of about 28 colleges that have agreed to some uniform standards, called "consensus methodology" as to how they determine financial aid. See <a href="http://www.568group.org/membership/members.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.568group.org/membership/members.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>There is a myth that has grown up around the 568 Group that is (a) they will give better financial aid than other colleges and (b) that they will all give the same aid, but that isn't exactly true. Their agreement covers some areas where the colleges have discretion, but not all -- so even among the group financial aid awards can vary widely. Also, being in the 568 group does not mean that they are necessarily going to give better aid than a college that is not in the group -- the college that has not joined may have some policies that are more favorable to students in certain circumstances. My daughter is at Barnard, which is not part of the 568 group -- and where she got a significantly better financial aid offer (about $9000 better) than Univ. of Chicago, which is part of the 568 group. But knowing about the group will at least give you some answers about how the college handles some common issues, such as home equity. </p>

<p>I honestly think that before your daughter applies ED, you should try to meet with someone in the Columbia financial aid office (or talk by phone), and get a ballpark estimate or at least answers as to how some common issues are handled. My daughter has a wonderful aid package from Barnard, and their financial aid office is very responsive and easy to deal with -- but Barnard financial aid is entirely different from Columbia -- so that doesn't mean much, although I think that there might be some incentive for the 2 colleges to maintain somewhat consistent policies (it would stir up a lot of resentment if students compared notes and found wild discrepencies). </p>

<p>The other thing you need to do is be honest with yourself and figure out, assuming the worst case scenario, whether you would be willing to borrow whatever was necessary to pay for your daughter to attend Columbia. </p>

<p>I personally would not allow my d. to apply ED anywhere -- there are too many contingencies in play for my family. (California home equity, self-employed, divorced parents with non-custodial parent also being self-employed). In hindsight, I'm glad I had the chance to compare financial aid awards ... it just feels better knowing the Barnard's aid package happens to be the most generous. Also it felt really, really good the last week of March when all those fat envelopes arrived. But then, the problem with hindsight is that we know that she got accepted to her top choice colleges. Statistically, the odds are a lot better for Columbia for ED students. (But I also think you have to be wary of the stats -- the ED pool is filled with legacies and recruited athletes - I'm not sure there is that much of an advantage for an "unhooked" candidate once those students are factored out)</p>

<p>As to your other question.... my daughter loves her classes and her social life is definitely keeping her busy. As noted, she's at Barnard (no core)- but half her classes are on the Columbia campus and she is there every day. She has made new friends both at Barnard & Columbia.</p>

15

<p>Thanks everyone for all of your replies. They have been quite helpful! It looks like Columbia tries to be straightforward and fair with their financial aid. I have run the EFC calculator with both the IM and FM and have found we fair better under the IM, so that's good news it appears. We will still call the FA office though before we allow our daughter to send off her ED application, but if it looks good then we'll tell her to go ahead. </p>

<p>Then of course comes the really tricky part... getting in. Anyone have any pointers for the application and essays? I only hope they fall in love with her as much as she has with them. Time will tell I suppose. She has a few other schools that, while they are definitely second in line for her, she feels she could go to any of them and find her way happily. So while it won't be the end of the world if she isn't accepted, it certainly would be her dream come true if she is.</p>

<p>Calmom, thank you for your thoughtful response. I've tried to talk my daughter into considering Barnard, but no dice. Her Spanish teacher is an alum of Barnard and has tried to get her to apply also. Oh well. Glad to hear yours likes it so much though. </p>

<p>Lurkness, thanks for clarifying about that website. I went back and checked it out. Thanks.</p>

16

<p>I can tell you my S's approach to applying, for what it's worth. He's a minimalist sort, and CU's app is a minimalist app. They practically beg you not to send in anything extra, include a resume, or anything like that. S was happy to oblige. But everything he put in, he made count. He wrote an essay which really showed him at his best--a vignette which brought together two of his major interests, marching band and astronomy, in an engaging way. He tried to list books, periodicals, performances, museums exhibits, etc, for those questions which again, really showed who he is, trying to be honest and eclectic about his interests. In the tiny space for "why Columbia?" he tried to show why it was C and not some other college which was his first choice. People say that it's trite to talk about the Core and NY, but let's face it, those two separate C from other schools more than anything else. I woudln't say too much about NY only, but he did mention it. He also had a great alumni interview; the two seemed to really click. Overall, it's hard to say what got him accepted, but I do think he presented himself very well in the app. Best wishes to your D!</p>

17

<p>Amom, where did you run the EFC calculator? You need to know that the "Institutional Methodology" used in those calculators is extremely rough, because it tries to include considerations that vary widely from one school to another. So, if your IM EFC comes out better than your FAFSA EFC, it could be a result of factors that do not apply to Columbia. You may find this section of the Finaid.org site to be particularly illuminating about the ways that colleges vary in their practices: <a href="http://www.finaid.org/educators/pj/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.finaid.org/educators/pj/&lt;/a> (This is the part for educators about "professional judgment" which is where all the wiggle room comes into play).</p>

<p>So again, I think for ED you need to plan for worst-case-scenario. If IM EFC looks better than FM... then just for purposes of "what if"... assume the FM. </p>

<p>IF the Columbia financial aid office will work with you in advance to develop a ballpark based on the estimated figure you give them, then of course you will be ahead of the game. </p>

<p>I don't mean to be a complete naysayer here. Because of my home equity, my IM calculation came out very high, and every single private college offered us far better aid than the calculators would predict. Barnard was particularly generous -- it is obvious to me that they wrote off a large part of the home equity, probably by applying a lower cap based on our income. </p>

<p>I simply want to make sure that you are aware that while the FM calculator tends to be very accurate, the IM calculator can be pretty far off the mark. Barnard has just notified us that my d's grant is being increased, but they still want us to pay about $8K over and above our FAFSA EFC.</p>