Wooster vs. Lawrence

College Search & Selection
1

As decision days for RD applications approach, I’m trying to at least wrap my head around the relative merits of the EA schools we already know about so we’re ready to hit the ground running with final visits and decisions when we have more information.

There are four options currently in play, but one is an entirely different kind of school, so a different conversation entirely, and the other option may be falling off the list for its own reasons (TBD), but I’d love some thoughts specifically on Wooster vs. Lawrence. (Not, at this point, looking for new suggestions.)

As background, the kid declares his strongest interest in Physics (reinforced by a Physics-heavy course load this year) and also Philosophy (mostly untested). He takes an interest in politics and current events, so a strong political science department might be a plus (ditto CS, for different reasons). He doesn’t care much about sports (but would cheer a team) and plays an instrument he’d like to continue playing (though not at a conservatory level). He’s a low-key kid, not super competitive. I found that during the college search, the schools that attracted him most had a generally intellectual vibe. He liked Wooster very much when we visited - we found the kids we met both engaged and unpretentious, and the campus very welcoming. Lawrence we know only on paper, but I have been impressed by their communications and overall approach to date.

Stuff that’s comparable as far as I can see: Cost (with merit), student stats, male/female ratio, class size distributions, academic focus, retention (and % of kids on campus) and number of kids participating in (reportedly not overwhelming) Greek life. Both seem like supportive environments for students like him. Both have a required freshman studies curriculum. Both are schools that need some explaining in the Northeast.

Differences that I can’t identify as pros or cons:

  • Wooster’s on the semester system, Lawrence on the trimester system.
  • All Wooster students are required to complete a senior thesis.

Wooster pros:

  • We already know and like it.
  • Theoretically driveable (albeit a very long day)
  • About 35% bigger than Lawrence (~2,100)
  • Somewhat more diverse (both in terms of ethnicity and state of origin), at least by some reports.

Wooster cons:

  • Town seems a bit limited.
  • On paper, at least, Physics program doesn’t seem quite as strong, though there seems to be a complete undergraduate curriculum and good opportunities for research.
  • Somewhat higher reported student:teacher ratio (11:1 vs 9:1, though also seemingly a higher number of very small classes)

Lawrence Pros

  • On various lists of schools that generate graduates who go on to get PhDs in the physical sciences, Lawrence seems to rank higher.
  • My read of the course catalog seems to indicate a higher number of upper level physics courses but I’m a bit out of my depth here.
  • Conservatory with music opportunities for non-con students.
  • Appleton seems – at least on paper – as if it has more going on.
  • Somewhat lower reported student: teacher ratio (9:1 vs. 11:1)

Lawrence Cons

  • Farther than we’d want to drive
  • Smaller (~1,500), non-Con community even smaller.
  • Depending on where you get your information, possibly the least diverse of the schools we’ve considered – heavily weighted to the midwest.

Obviously, if it comes down to these two once all the RD results are in, we have to go visit. But I’d love to go into that decision with some additional input from people who are personally familiar with one or both schools, and can offer some nuance to what we see on paper.

Thanks in advance!

2

Just a couple of minor data points: we crossed Lawrence off our list because the CS looked particularly weak (only one prof, very few majors). Also, while I have little doubt the music is superior at Lawrence, by all accounts the department at Wooster is relatively strong (they, for instance, offer a B.M. degree), so for a kid who just wants a chance to play their instrument in a decent ensemble, I think they would probably both meet his needs.

3

I just spent the weekend in Wooster. Although the town is not a cultural Mecca or a vibrant, thriving metropolis, I enjoyed several very good meals (City Square Steakhouse, Broken Rocks Cafe, Oak Grove Eatery) and one okay meal (Old Gaol Tavern). We tried to have dinner Saturday night at Osaka but the line was literally out the door. A quick check of the local paper (looking for an off-campus activity for Saturday night) gave us movies, community theater, and line/square dancing as options. We debated going to Canton/Akron or Cleveland but the weather wasn’t great so we stayed local Saturday night. My freshman does not spend a lot of time in town (other than the requisite trips to Wal-Mart, McDonalds, and the drug store), preferring to socialize on campus, but did go out on Valentine’s Day for a celebratory meal with the significant other.

Greek life is present but does not overwhelm the social scene, and appears to be fairly “open” (my student rushed and was invited to join but ultimately decided not to and is still friends with all the members of that organization).

I can’t comment on the physics department…last thing in the world on my student’s radar - lol. Class sizes this year ranged from 5 to 90 (Intro Psych - largest class on campus this year). The majority of classes had fewer than 20 students.

I have not been to Lawrence so I cannot compare the two.

4

Hello again! We’ve visited Wooster twice and Lawrence once, so a couple of thoughts.

First, I wouldn’t put too much weight onto student-faculty ratios, because I believe Lawrence’s lower rates reflects the number of one to one ratios from private music lessons for both Con and non-Con students. Number of classes in different class size ranges would be a better indicator of the student’s classroom experience.

Appleton is bigger than Wooster, and while it has its charms, doesn’t seem a whole other level of metropolis than Wooster. I was impressed by the small, but hip, area of downtown Wooster – some wonderful restaurants and the ver hip St Paul hotel. Wooster is an hour from anywhere else though, and that could be a disincentive. With the new President at Wooster-- the former Dean of the College at Williams – I expect that we will see some steps over the next couple of years to march up the rankings.

I haven’t been able to find Wooster’s Common Data, but Lawrence shows 68% white. When we visited, it did not seem overly white and definitely did not have a strong conformist vibe at all. Lots of types of kids, no dominant type. Both schools seem to have good geographic diversity, roughly 60-65% from outside the home state, and from many, but not all 50, states.

Lawrence’s campus feels more compact than Wooster’s – Wooster “felt like college” to my kid – spread out enough but not huge, whereas he took the impression that there were just fewer buildings at Lawrence. I could see it feeling a bit claustrophobic in winter, but that’s just me. The student center/dining hall at Lawrence is gorgeous, set on a river bank, with multiple levels all looking out over the water. My kid said Lawrence was the best food he had eaten, after visiting 15+ LACs. Athletic facilities at Lawrence, including the student recreational gym facilities, were not impressive. Students get a free YMCA membership to the facility a few blocks away, which told us that upgrading the facility was not a priority at Lawrence.

We have friends back east who know kids at both schools, and both have loved their experience, and the families are very pleased. Most agree, put these schools in CT or PA, and its a whole different ballgame. In the meantime, these schools offer lower tuition and fees, and substantial merit, to kids who are looking east.

Probably not helping you take one off the list before those RDs come in, sorry!

5

All great information, thank you! Not so much looking to eliminate at this stage as to figure out what to watch for and what questions to ask. Keep 'em coming!

6

This table from a thread on CC last February (I have not independently verified these data) shows impressively high Ph.D. production in the physical sciences (which I presume combines physics and chemistry) at both Wooster and Lawrence:

Full thread: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1737399-which-top-liberal-arts-college-has-the-strongest-science-programs-p1.html

7

You may want to ask questions about the types of equipment and types of Physics research going on at each school. Also, I seem to remember that Lawrence had a special visits day for Physics majors – my kid had a conflict and couldn’t go, but you should see if that is happening this year.

1 Like
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You are in a good parent situation. My oldest kid graduates in June from Lawrence. Other kid is a freshman at Wooster. Don’t overthink the choices. Your student must visit each campus to make the decision. Often the decision comes more from the ‘gut’ than weighing the pros/con. The student has to make the decision. For my kids, they instinctively knew which campus was the best place for them. And it has worked out wonderfully.

Lawrence has been great for my biochem, trombone playing son. He was accepted into the Conservatory for a double degree but dropped his freshman year. Large group auditions are open and small group opportunities are good; lessons for credit are also a way to get the music experience. He continues to play. Great relationship with prof’s and laboratory work has landed him a job prior to pursuing an advanced degree in a couple of years. Lawrence campus is more compact than Wooster but the athletic fields are on the other side of Fox River. Short walks to food and class are a plus in January and February.

Daughter at Wooster likes the campus and people. Of the 6 schools she visited, Wooster was the only one she talked about, nonstop after coming home. She didn’t want to continue with music activities but the experience looks like a lot of fun. Beautiful campus and close community. Good basketball team. Freshman room together so it develops a close class community. Prof’s seem to be engaged and very supportive.

Trimester at Lawrence is a longer school year but allows for a long holiday break and more credit hours in the long run. Wooster has one week break in the fall and 2 weeks in the spring. Both schools require some level of Senior research - Independent Study at Wooster, capstone project at Lawrence. Both schools offer/allow/encourage diverse academic pursuits which may serve your student well.

Both communities have a college versus ‘townies’ issue to some degree (according to my students). Appleton is a bigger community. Both communities have safe and interesting downtowns. Off campus food is within a short walk at Lawrence. Both kids stay pretty much on campus for social activities. Appleton, WI is very busy during Green Bay Packer home game weekends. Both schools/communities offer bus transport to airports for travel home during breaks.

Visit Lawrence University and meet with physics prof’s. Then let your student decide. Where does your kid feel like they belong? Both are excellent schools, offering great opportunities while a student and potential post-graduation. Can’t go wrong with either in my experience.

9

Thanks again – this is all really useful information. This has helped confirm my hunch that if either is still in contention after the RD decisions come down, I should really push to visit both of them. (On the other hand, it also gives me some peace of mind should my kid arbitrarily rule one out.)

And @Streamhugger, you really are the perfect resource to answer this question!