Worried about barnard/columbia relationship

Colleges and Universities A-Z Barnard College
1

<p>I was accepted to Barnard (!!!) and it is currently my top choice and I think it still might be my top choice even if I do get into Columbia (I applied ED but was deferred, which I am now grateful for since I think I like Barnard better). I am only worried about the relationship between Barnard girls and Columbia students…I have heard that any hostility between the girls at both schools sort of dissipates after freshman year but I doubt any of the prejudices do. I don’t think that most students at columbia would really openly insult barnard students by calling them inferior or less intelligent but is it one of those things that is always at the back of their minds? is it difficult to deal with? I don’t want to have to live with some inferiority complex for the next four years and I know that it is all about how I see myself, if I let it get to me, I can choose how I want to feel, etc. but I would want to go to college to grow and become confident and not feel like I have to constantly prove my worth to people around me and most importantly to myself. I don’t think Barnard students are not as good as students at columbia but assuming I am not accepted tomorrow I will become one of those girls who “couldn’t get in to columbia so they had to go to barnard” (even though getting in to barnard isn’t easy and I like Barnard better anyway)</p>

<p>I don’t know if that entirely makes sense but I would really appreciate anyone else’s opinion.</p>

2

<p>I’ve heard that after the first couple weeks Columbia freshmen get over it. Even if they don’t, you still have your Barnard girls to stick to :slight_smile:
I would probably pick Barnard over Columbia too! I remember one girl even wrote on one of these forums “I’d like to see someone get accepted to both, pick Barnard and carry around her Columbia acceptance letter to show those stupid people that Barnard girls are just as good as Columbia girls”</p>

3

<p>You have nothing to worry about.</p>

<p>The most joking about it is by Barnard girls themselves just being silly. Maybe some guys will say something slightly offensive about having a nice selection of women—but I’ve only heard that secondhand. But on the whole I truly believe no one cares. I have not had anyone treat me differently at all. The kids of both sexes that I’ve encountered have never mentioned it other than its existence as a fact, like “Oh, your eyes are green.” </p>

<p>I’m sure there is someone who does harbor resentments. But whoever that person (or people are) they would have problems anyway. </p>

<p>I have also heard no one say that they have an inferiority complex because of it. I have heard no one on campus complain.</p>

<p>Again, this is my experience and maybe I’ve just been sheltered, but I DO NOT let it affect your impression of the quality of life here. Truly—and I say this in all honesty—there is nothing here that has made me unhappy. Life isn’t perfect, and not everything is gorgeous or easy or amazing, but that’s the way it is anywhere. Any anxiety I experience is solely my own doing. Barnard is a wonderful place. I’m almost done with my first year here, and I can tell you that confidently.</p>

4

<p>thanks to both of you!
phedre:and I am really relieved that you have had a good experience at Barnard after not even a year…I am just so excited/nervous about going to Barnard! I am usually so indecisive but I just sort of know I would fit in there better than at Columbia. </p>

<p>rainbowrose: Part of me would like to get accepted to Columbia just so I could do that, but I know that even if I don’t I am proud enough to be able to go to Barnard!!!</p>

5

<p>From everything I have seen and heard over the four years when my daughter was a Barnard student (and since then reading these boards), Barnard is the better choice for women to attend than CC. Better advising, excellent faculty support, better support for issues and problems specific to women, often smaller class size, more campus comraderie, etc. And truly, the issues you read about here about the Barnard/Columbia relationship are pretty much restricted to these boards. </p>

<p>The one exception to this is one I believe you already get: and that is YOU have to know that Barnard is the best school for you, should you choose to attend there. If you are not accepted to Columbia, perhaps it’s because Barnard is a better fit for you and not that you are not “good enough” for Columbia. You will figure it out, though! Take care!!</p>

6

<p>And in your classes no one wears a sign that says Columbia or Barnard. Everyone mixes together.</p>

<p>My D wanted Columbia as a little girl, but by ninth grade switched to Barnard and didn’t even apply to Columbia. Never regretted it. She much preferred being at Barnard.</p>

<p>It really isn’t something to worry about. Just choose the school that feels right to you.</p>

7

<p>A couple thoughts </p>

<p>First, do a search on CC for this topic … it has been discussed extensively over the years.</p>

<p>Second, my daughter is finishing her first year at Barnard and does not find this to be an issue at all. Some very small percentage of Columbia students look down on Barnard students while the vast-vast majority don’t care one way or the other. For her the Columbia-Barnard connection is one of the great things about Barnard (experience LAC and Research U at the same school)</p>

8

<p>Suffice it to say that this is an area where people, evidently, have different experiences.
On the one hand there are the several experiences described by posters here and elsewhere on CC, which I in no way dismiss.</p>

<p>However, on the other hand there was the experience my D2 had, which I at least obviously do not dismiss, which was pretty much in line with your post #1, and was among the reasons she transferred out of there.</p>

9

<p>Where did your daughter transfer? (if you don’t want to say the specific school, can you give an indication of type of school?)</p>

10

<p>It was the type of school where other girls in the room did not stop talking to her as soon as they found out she went to Barnard.</p>

<p>It was the type of school where she did not feel she was being judged by others in the classroom,adversely, because of the college she was enrolled in. Where she did not feel her opinions were not held in appropriate regard because of preconceived notions about students at her college, vs. their college.</p>

<p>It was the type of school that did not include Columbia University students.</p>

<p>That is an indication of the type of school she transferred to.</p>

<p>There are of course other particulars. but these are the features that are germane to this thread.</p>

<p>Hope that helps.</p>

<p>PS she is doing insanely great there.</p>

11

<p>I’m glad your daughter found a place to be happy.</p>

<p>My D loved Barnard and did not have any of the difficulties you describe. She felt sorry for the Columbia women because she thought they deferred so much to the Columbia men. </p>

<p>She went to many events when she stood up for herself against the guys while the others women caved in.</p>

<p>And yes, she did date a very coveted Columbia guy frosh year. Neither was very serious.</p>

12

<p>So did mine. I met the guy, no offense but he was a dork. Evidently she thought so too, ultimately. But when the pickings are slim…
Her bf at the new college is a nice guy, much more normal. very tall though.</p>

13

<p>Well, truly happy for your D. That’s all that’s important. Not the guy, that she be happy.</p>

<p>My D ended up having a long distance relationship with a guy at WashU, and they lived together in Atlanta this year while she had an internship at he GA Capital Defense Fund (anti-death penalty) and he worked at the CDC.</p>

<p>Now she’s coming back to NY for law school, and he’s staying there, but they are still going to be together somehow. </p>

<p>Different generation.</p>

14

<p>yeah exactly , whatever they work out that’s good for them that’s all that matters. But here, I just can’t sit mute and watch all these “everything’s ok, there’s no problem” posts, when I know full well that D2 lived through what she did, and experienced very much yes a problem. People should know what they are getting into.</p>

<p>As I said in #8, evidently people have different experiences in this regard.</p>

15

<p>Monydad, I’m sorry that your daughter had a painful experience at Barnard. My question really was not meant to be challenging – I was curious as to whether your d. opted for a larger/smaller college, or suburban/rural, etc. </p>

<p>My d. formed many friendships with Columbia males & participated in various Columbia student groups. My d. had plenty of complaints about Barnard & Columbia – but in the 4 years she has been there I have not once heard any complaint about a Columbia v. Barnard barrier. On the contrary, she seems to see Barnard-Columbia in unitary fashion – that is, she rarely draws any sort of distinction. In fact the ONLY distinction she has ever drawn has been related to the administration of the schools – apparently Barnard women are generally very happy with their administration, and Columbia students are very unhappy with theirs.</p>

<p>Since I have mentioned that my d. did have other complaints, I’ll mention what they were:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The all-girl thing. D. likes to have guy friends, and lots of them. She would definitely have preferred a co-ed living situation. (This isn’t about dating – she had a boyfriend who attended a different college in a different city, so she wasn’t looking for romance). </p></li>
<li><p>The biggest social barrier my d. encountered was between haves & have nots. Students who came from public high schools, on both sides of the street, seemed to be acutely aware of that fact. NY is an expensive place to be, with many opportunities to spend lavish sums of money – not so easy for a kid living off of her work-study earnings. In that case, the barriers seemed to be more obvious within Barnard than Barnard v. Columbia, probably because it was simply more apparent among people she was living on close proximity with.</p></li>
</ol>

16

<p>Painful is an overstatement, she found good things about it too, she didn’t despise it there overall , just on balance she chose to be elsewhere, in part for the reasons stated.</p>

<p>she would agree with your #1 & 2, as well. She found that a lot of her classmates relished dressing up expensively and clubbing downtown every weekend. She preferred to dress down, actually felt more at home in that regard with the Columbia women she met, too bad they would not so much as talk to her, once they knew where she attended. So she said. Just some other things, to add to the list.</p>

<p>For transfer, along with previously-mentioned features per #10, she chose a university that was about 50-50 coed, with likely a more economically diverse student body and not in NYC.</p>

17

<p>I am truly sorry your d had a bad experience at Barnard, monydad, and I am happy that she has found a better fit for her.</p>

<p>For my daughter, I think one real factor in how well she related to her Columbia friends (male and female) was that she was very involved in a University wide extracurricular activity (the student dance group Orchesis), where you really had to ask to know which school they attended. And certainly she never indicated to me that anyone cared one way or the other. Many of her good friends were Columbia students.</p>

<p>Again, you can find examples of all kinds of experiences anywhere you look. I just do not think any Barnard/Columbia angst is the defining factor for most Barnard students.</p>

18

<p>And none of our girls were “haves”. My D definitely earned her spending money from working. But she does not like clubbing, so money would not have been the barrier there, and jeans are fine. We buy Red Engine (an expensive brand) on outrageous sales we find on the internet (under $30.00). She insists they fit her better.</p>

<p>She did acquire one expensive purse for her 21st b’day from her grandmother.</p>

<p>It’s probably like anything else. If one is happy the problems are minimized; if one is not they’re maximized.</p>

<p>Since Barnard was not the right place for monydad’s D, every single irritation must have added to the mix.</p>

<p>For my D, there was not a college in the US that would have suited her as well. After living away, she knows NYC is her home, and the all woman graduation was deeply moving. Her very feminist self loved the strong pro-woman atmosphere.</p>

<p>Barnard was her ED school, chosen over Brown.</p>

<p>But it’s all about fit.</p>

<p>Monydad – no one is invalidating your D’s experience.</p>

19

<p>One more chime-in here:</p>

<p>We are not well-off either, and my daughter worked her way through Barnard. She was able, though, to enjoy a great deal of fun things in NYC and she and her friends definitely took advantage of “Restaurant Week” (I think that is what it’s called ) in NYC where very high-end establishments would have limited offerings at greatly reduced special prices. </p>

<p>And she does NOT consider herself a “feminist” at all. We are a pretty conservative bunch and she had an interesting experience living through the election of President Obama and being in the very definite minority in her opposition to his being elected. It was all a huge part, however, of the Barnard/Columbia experience and she would not have traded it for anything.</p>

<p>Again, it’s all about “fit”.</p>

20

<p>“I am truly sorry your d had a bad experience at Barnard”</p>

<p>Let’s be carefull we’re not inadvertently trying to “spin” the reality she experienced away.</p>

<p>Let me state for the second time now, perhaps more clearly,since that seems to be necessary, she did not have a bad experience at Barnard. There were both good points and less good points, and on balance she felt she could do better for herself elsewhere. But it’s not like Barnard was some big disaster for her. she was doing great there, actually, school, job, friends,(dorky) boyfriend… She was doing so well there that we tried to discourage her from leaving. If I had to be psychoanalyst I would guess that the second-class citizen thing is really what did her in, I can see where that would really bother her, she has a decent sized ego of her own, comes from her mom…</p>

<p>“…it’s all about fit.”</p>

<p>Well ya, but in the case of this thread, as I see it,and I know as she sees it, it is about provision of accurate information from which to assess fit. If there is a consistent party line, with respect to the issues of this thread, of “there is no problem whatsoever”, but then she gets there and the reality she experiences is quite something different, well then she will experience lack of fit, due to bad data.</p>

<p>I am trying to provide some of this missing data so that others may assesss for themselves more accurately and perhaps not experience this lack of fit. From everything I perceived, the issues are more pervasive than this thread would suggest, and I think interested parties would do well to visit, talk to lots of students (not affiliated with admissions) and decide the truth for themselves. Because this comes, IMO, not from some disgruntled outlier (her friends backed her up, when they were over,they are outliers too???), but IMO someone who was not that unhappy but able to perceive things rationally, as they existed in her slice of reality.</p>

<p>Every school has good and less good aspects. In weighing pluses and minuses, a huge plus for Barnard, which undoubtedly can compensate for a lot to many people, is its location in NYC and everything that means. However this aspect can wind up being less powerful for someone who is from there and hence being there is not such a big deal. In this case anyway.</p>