<p>These schools have popped up on my radar screen in my quest to help D find the right college for her. They have excellent academics, strong programs in the areas D wants to study, great school spirit that translates into strong alumni ties, beautiful campuses, etc. I was wondering if any of my fellow parents have had experience with any one of these three. D is an urban kid who goes to a fairly diverse high school. She wants strong academics but doesn't want a pressure-cooker environment. My worries: atmosphere of preppy, rich-kid entitlement; homogeneous student body; drinking culture. Despite those drawbacks (if they're true), are these college worth checking out? Do the positives outweigh the negatives? What's it like to be at a college where you're outside the dominant culture? Any help is much appreciated!</p>
<p>From friends who go to these schools I can say that out of all of them Colgate would be the less preppy. However, you shouldn't worry about that since all the talk about preppy schools are over hyped. Yes all of those schools are mostly made up of rich white students but they all have different personalities and most are not snobby(if that's what you mean by preppy). You won't find many Eastern LAC that don't somewhat fit the description you talked about, all of them contain rich-preppy kids just some a little more than others. I know that Lehigh is a big athlete school so maybe if your daughter wasn't into athletics she would feel out of place there. With the drinking culture it isn't any more or less prevalent than it is at other schools. If you want to drink believe me you can find it and if not, no one really cares if you don't drink. All of these colleges the good deffinately outweighs the bad. Out of those three school Bucknell has the most preppy/rich-kid atmosphere. I would also check out Bates, it is like those schools except more down to earth people and a great school.</p>
<p>I don't now the other two but Colgate is beautiful, friendly and welcoming. Best run admissions shop around. Top drawer. Some mildly scruffy folks around but it was pretty preppy. Being larger than some helps out because there are more of all kinds of kids. I wouldn't worry. Have her visit. She'll know soon enough. Kids feel this stuff by osmosis or something. It's amazing really. </p>
<p>Check out Hamilton. More edgy. More arty. More scruffy but still preppy. Maybe a better choice as you describe your D. D liked both a lot and both were VERY generous and wonderful places to consider.</p>
<p>I think there are better fits out there. Carleton, Grinnell, Oberlin type places.</p>
<p>Bucknell and Colgate are both very preppy, with a lot of wealthy tri-state area kids. I don't know about Lehigh.</p>
<p>What about Kenyon?</p>
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<p>With the drinking culture it isn't any more or less prevalent than it is at other schools.</p>
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<p>I don't agree. While it's true that kids drink everywhere, there's a huge difference between, say, Bucknell and Oberlin. I would go so far as to say that although there's alcohol on campus, Oberlin doesn't really have a drinking culture. (Pot culture -- that's a different question.)</p>
<p>OP, how far outside of that culture do you imagine your child to be? Is she just not a big drinker and not that preppy, or is she, for lack of a better term, kind of an alternative kid? If a student leans in a hippie or goth direction, I would share your concerns.</p>
<p>I think, obviously, private LACs are going to have mostly rich kids (look at the price tag!) and, obviously, preppy is what is in style right now on those campuses. That said, I know a lot of really nice preppy kids. </p>
<p>My niece is a kid who has always been educated in a very diverse environment. She thrives in it. She attends an urban HS that is an Arts magnet. I have to say, I can't really see her at a private LAC, even an Oberlin or Bard. I just don't think she'd be happy. She would more likely feel comfortable at a big or mid-sized, urban (public) university. </p>
<p>My own experience tells me that, sadly, it is not fun to not fit into the college culture. Even though I like to think ALL schools have a mix of kids, it can still be hard.</p>
<p>Well, that's just my 2 cents.</p>
<p>I can speak to your concerns about Colgate, Macnyc.</p>
<p>I’m the mom of a former Colgate student. She transferred from Colgate to a mid-sized research U. after her first year. (She’s a rising junior now.) She transferred because she was uncomfortable with the prevalent campus culture. For her, the combination of rural isolation plus heavy Greek system plus strong emphasis on athletics was not a good fit. Although she is NOT a non-drinker, she found the drinking excessive and the social scene monotonous. And because of the physical isolation (albeit on one of the most beautiful campuses around) there was no escape. </p>
<p>That said, for a student who is happy to be outside the mainstream, the preppy/hard-drinking/relatively homogenous dominant culture at Colgate might not be a deal breaker. A school of 2700 is not a monolith. There are clearly many subcultures at Colgate, including an intellectual, serious-minded subculture, a quirky subculture, and others. But I think my daughter’s perception of the dominant culture at Colgate is probably dead on.</p>
<p>If your daughter is comfortable being outside the mainstream, she can find her niche at Colgate. My daughter enjoys being right smack dab in the middle of things, and she was definitely not in that spot at Colgate. So although she made some great friends there, and although you are so right about the academics and advising system -- truly excellent -- she made the tough decision to transfer.</p>
<p>Have your daughter visit and see for herself. My kid is really happy at Colgate. Because it is little bigger, Colgate is a bit more diverse than some of the smaller NE LAC's; academically there's lots of great stuff going on there these days. Colgate encourages overnight visits - call the admissions office to set one up.</p>
<p>If Texastaximom is still on the boards, she would be the perfect person to address the current climate at Bucknell. Her son is not in the mainstream there, and seems to love it. </p>
<p>I am a former Bucknellian, and found a liberal, political niche at Bucknell and all was well, but I that was many years ago. I can't address the atmosphere now.</p>
<p>Within the last three years I have visited Hamilton, Colgate and Bucknell, and must say they are all quite isolated, in small, towns. Although Colgate's town is really non-existent. Wouldn't this isolation be the bigger issue? </p>
<p>But, your attempt to find a less competive pressure cooker environment, may depend more on her major than the school. If she is Pre-Med, pressure cooker everywhere. </p>
<p>Have you visited any of these schools?</p>
<p>i graduated from bucknell in may. while it is indeed true that the campus is more 'preppy' than most and there is a large greek scene, both of these characterizations tend to be unfairly loaded.</p>
<p>for one, the students at bucknell are no wealthier than those at many other top private colleges. in fact, bucknell enrolls substantially more pell grant recipients than the above-mentioned kenyon (12% and 7%, respectively) and beats out quite a few other 'liberal' lacs like vassar, conn college and carleton. reed is the top coed lac in the department at 18%, for context.</p>
<p>does this mean that the campus isnt 'preppy?' no. it is. but the differences come more along the lines of the student body being physically active and generally preferring collars to angst-ridden tees.</p>
<p>two, a frat is not a frat is not a frat. sure, there are several 'traditional' fraternities on campus. but there is also one comprised entirely of your stereotypical engineering geeks, whos saturday night parties are not complete without video games, duct tape and innumerable anime references.</p>
<p>that said, friday and saturday nights do revolve around parties for many students. the good thing, however, is that the university is all too aware of its reputation and as such provides numerous non-alcoholic activities to its students, many of which are very well attended. i 'partied' probably two or three times a month while in school and was never without plenty to do on the nights i wanted to do something else.</p>
<p>is the university perfect? no. the student body as a whole is neither as politically active nor as intellectually focused as i might have liked, though lectures and art events are very well attended. and racial diversity is definitely an issue. but with those downsides come many positives. the education is fantastic. the student body is unimaginably kind. there is a genuine diversity of opinion within the classroom (yes, there are real, live conservatives on campus) and those who are politically- or intellectually-minded have a smaller niche of friends with which to immediately bond.</p>
<p>in closing i guess ill just say this: this not-so-wealthy, not-particularly-preppy, ulta-liberal and intellectual kid loved his three years at bucknell.</p>
<p>Eric, thanks for your perspective on the frat issue. I know many parents, myself included, that are interested in these schools but are concerned about how the frat scene actually plays out. Yours is the best description of how the frat scene sits in the overall context of the college.</p>
<p>I find it curious that institutions so preppy as these are located in areas that are so UN-preppy. Irony?</p>
<p>That's what "town-gown" relations have always been about. ;)</p>
<p>Colgate and Bucknell are very similar and both preppy. Also both are in remote locations. Lehigh has a strong engineering tradition and less preppy. Might want to look at a fellow Patriot League rival in Holy Cross-Jesuit school like Georgetown- but only 1 hour from Boston. Also, Holy Cross does not have any fraternities/sororities that Colgate and Bucknell have.</p>
<p>I lived with a Colgate student this summer when we did research in the same dept at Vassar. He was dissapointed and bitter with the number of preppy students and the preppy culture there.</p>
<p>Then again I don't feel my school (Wellesley) is snobbish yet this fact turns prospies off all the time....</p>
<p>Been a while, but I graduated from Lehigh. Never been to the Colgate campus but I've seen Bucknell a couple times. Lehigh has 2 differences from those schools: it's larger, and not so isolated.</p>
<p>With close to 5000 undergrads at LU my thought would be you'd have more company because of sheer numbers of students, if you are outside the mainstream. I knew plenty of nondrinkers at Lehigh but you will be outnumbered if you aren't frat/drinking type of person. Lehigh seems to have improved in these areas in the past generation...more diversity, trying to be more academic and succeeding to some extent. Still I was in a fraternity, drinking was "it" and frat parties were what most people did on weekends, actually beginning Thurs or even Wed nights. I knew many who had drinking problems.</p>
<p>Bethlehem isn't rural. Not the greatest of cities but you really aren't in the boonies. A/B/E is a substantial area population-wise (Allentown/Bethlehem/Easton), slightly depressed but there are malls, etc. Phila is just an hour away, NYC maybe an hour and a half.</p>
<p>Your D is at an urban hs...but does that mean she wants an urban college? The 2 don't necessarily follow of course. E.g. we're from suburbia but S wanted urban only, so Lehigh was off the radar. Perhaps your D would appreciate the break from urban atmosphere.</p>
<p>"What's it like to be at a college where you're outside the dominant culture?"</p>
<p>Your question ultimately is about "feeling", as opposed to "what it's like". The feeling is going to be different, depending on the personality of the student. The data on students who attended private schools, those whose families pay the full $180k freight (or have small or no loans - large indebtedness by students is often a sign that the parents are too poor to take out loans), Pell Grant data, even data on families with incomes below $60k is available from multiple sources. It would be surprising, and extremely counterintuitive if students did not carry a character set of attitudes, behaviors, etc. that did not reflect at least something about where they come from and what their previous experience is, even if each one carries a character set which is uniquely his or her own. We found this most certainly to be the case when we were visiting colleges some years back, and reflects my own experience as well.</p>
<p>How's it feel to be outside the dominant culture? For me, speaking personally (long time ago at Williams) it was unsettling, at times bewildering, uncomfortable, and occasionally unfriendly. It was also a source of great learning - about myself, about my culture and about American subcultures, and about my own needs and aspirations. It was clarifying. Can I say I actually liked it? Honestly, no. But I can say that I benefitted greatly from it. Would I choose it again? Probably not. But looking back at it, I am also profoundly grateful for the education afforded to me, including those parts of it that made me uncomfortable. </p>
<p>The sense of entitlement (which was huge) that the vast majority of students carried around with them in my college days made my eyes pop out!. My greatest lesson was that I was entitled too (even if I didn't have money to go with!)</p>
<p>Having said all that, I think the best thing is for a prospie to do overnights at any of these campuses (or any campus for that matter) on a Thursday night. It will tell you "how early the weekend starts", what students do for fun, how studious they are, what the conversations are like, etc. etc. It's not perfect, of course, and any visit can give a wrong impression, but that, combined with data, is about the best shot a prospie has at getting a feel and understanding of schools she might wish to attend, and to assess her comfort level.</p>
<p>(P.S. You started the thread with "your" worries. Does your d. share them?)</p>
<p>My son is heading back to Bucknell for his junior year, and has enjoyed his experience. (He chose Bucknell over Colgate, but liked many of the small PA LACs) Although we are from Texas, he is definitely not what comes to mind when you think <em>Texan.</em> About eight students from Texas come to Bucknell each year.</p>
<p>He is not in a frat but his roommate last year did pledge. He said he didn't really have the time or interest, ie there is plenty to do outside of the Greek System on campus. Besides, if you really want to go to a frat party, you can usually snag an invite. He has opted to play bass in a band that plays at said frat parties. He enjoys the live music scene on campus and also likes to road trip to Philly or NYC.</p>
<p>He is not <em>preppy</em> in either clothing style or upbringing. He went to public high school. He dresses very casually. Very casually. ;) Although he cut his hair for his internship in DC this summer, I'm sure it will be back to it's regular length before long. He is on scholarship/financial aid.</p>
<p>He is very involved in College Democrats and describes the campus as slightly left of center but very apathetic politically. Two years ago the College Dems hosted a convention at Bucknell and were named the best chapter in Pennsylvania. I believe there are plans for another one this year. There is also a vocal Republican organization on campus. The "Counterweight" and "All That's Left" are the two offsetting publications that are always seeking student contributions.He is also part of the effort to revitalize the debate team. They've traveled to a few tournaments in the last two years, and hosted one.</p>
<p>He is not an engineer. My son just formally declared a Political Science/ Philosophy double major and plans to spend his spring semester in Brazil. He is also not athletic or a rabid sports fan, however like most Bucknellians he does get caught up in March Madness.</p>
<p>So there is our story--a non-preppy, non-engineer, non-Greek, very liberal, middle class Texan who fits in well and enjoys Bucknell. Feel free to PM me.</p>
<p>great report TTM! Sounds like he is doing just fine. </p>
<p>But what in the heck comes to mind when you think "Texan"? LOL. There are just way too many flavors of us to be defined real tightly. I sort of get it, Californian to the rest of the country may mean SoCal and surfer blonde. Far cry from Castro or Taft Junior College.</p>
<p>Stay strong. Fight the power. Pro Texana.;)</p>