I have had the same math teacher for both 10th and 11th grade and overall I think I have a good relationship with her.
However in 10th grade I nearly failed Alg2 H with her (ended with a C+) and even though I am doing much better this year I am afraid that she would draw attention to that. I also have a bad habit for not doing hw in her class but other than I am certain she likes me and overall thinks that I have potential and really knows me well. Would a teacher point out my flaws or simply not mention them.
Depends on the teacher but you can certainly ask her about it. Good teachers will be honest about whether or not they can write a positive recommendation. Just ask her if she would be willing to write a rec or if she thinks it would be best for you to ask a different teacher. Colleges will see your transcript grades so it’s likely they will know if you did poorly in her class. If she were to write highly of you/your progress that could be seen as making the poor grade slightly less negative and also show increased growth and maturity. Her mentioning the grade itself isn’t a negative, it’s how she talks about it in relation to you. Colleges will know what grade you have. But if she doesn’t think the recommendation will be incredibly positive then you should ask someone else.
If you’re planning on asking for a rec it would be smart to turn around your performance and do the homework for that class especially. Also making sure that your current grades are high can show growth.
It is always a good idea to ask teachers if they would be able to write you a positive recommendation.
You should expect that teachers will mention negatives as well as positives in a recommendation so it may be best to stay away from a teacher if you consistently don’t do the homework for her class as at that shows a level of immaturity/lack of dedication to academics. Remember the focus of these recommendations is your ability to do college level academics and not just if you the recommender likes you personally
The purpose of these letters is not to give you a glowing recommendation so schools want you. The purpose is to let the school know what kind of student/person you are. A teacher is going to be honest. If you are struggling and not doing your homework (which might indicate you are not trying your best to learn) then she will mention that.
^I disagree – that is not how most teachers will handle it. If they say they will write a positive rec, most will stick to the positive things they can say, and leave out negatives. But you should ask her if she is willing to write your rec, and if she feels she can give you a positive one. Now you do get the occasional teacher who gives the whole picture (foreign language teacher from other cultures, for example) – which puts the student at a disadvantage against other applicants.
Agreed it’s best to ask. She may be able to talk about your improvement.
If I could not write a positive rec for a student I would tell him to seek out someone else. If I were required to write the rec it would be quite vague.
I would not ask this teacher for a recommendation. Find a class where you’re doing well and ask that teacher.
^ This. Each teacher has his/her opinion about what makes a good LOR. In @MurphyBrown’s friend’s mind, she is providing a great LOR albeit being too revealing.
This topic has always intrigued me. Students typically will not have a chance to review the letter so would never know the approach of the letter writer. However, so much is riding on these LOR’s. What should the students do?
I suggest you read this overview and think about which type of rec letter this teacher would write for you.
Most teachers will not want to contribute to getting students admitted to schools that are over their heads academically, so recommendations are likely to be accurate, if a bit on the positive side. Teachers (and schools) also have their reputations to consider, to be able to have a glowing recommendation seriously considered.
Sure, admissions officers can read between the lines. There are weak and strong adjectives that can be used to describe a student, and they know the difference. But a student whose teacher writes a rec like the examples given above does put the student at a disadvantage, no matter how proud the teacher is of the letter. Our kids’ GC started reviewing all letters that go out, and sending them back to teachers with gentle suggestions if they felt the letters put the students at a disadvantage (not just content and tone, but also grammar and spelling!). A teacher may be very proud of giving a “balanced” picture, but it can damage the student’s chances as well. We found it helpful to give the GC a list of teachers my kids were considering asking for recs, and the GC told the kids which ones they suggested would write the strongest letters.
Having read and written literally thousands of letters, I am qualified to say that students often have a misconception about how letters are read and considered. As per post # 11, as always, MIT has great information but that particular piece is helpful to outstanding students applying to top schools. We are talking about the top 10% of the applicant pool.
Readers of the letters consider the information in the context of the purpose for the letter-What type of program is the candidate hoping to gain entry to? is it a very competitive college, less competitive college, graduate program with requirements of specific skill sets, etc. Naturally within each setting, readers may be looking for different things but there are some commonalities across readers.
For the very top undergraduate and grad programs, readers are looking for certain code words, and the absence of others. Good examples to illustrate points can help but are sometimes unnecessary depending upon the context. For example, a letter from a well known researcher that says "This high school student worked in my lab for a year. She is brilliant. " might be 'nuff said. The very top schools are looking for key words like brilliant, innovative, top student in a decade, passionate researcher, exceptionally talented, nab him/her if you can, a natural leader… They are not going to be impressed by letters that focus on “hard worker”, diligent, eager, gets assignments in on time.
For less competitive colleges, letters that highlight a student’s efforts, engagement in class, diligence, perseveration, hard working, good work ethic, conducts him/her self in a mature manner, etc. can all be helpful. In this case they are looking for someone who will be a good citizen, benefit from and contribute to the campus, enhance rather than detract from classroom discussions, etc. A letter that focused on these attributes would not be a help to a student applying to a school hoping to graduate the next Steve Jobs. On the other hand, we are talking about very few colleges. Most colleges are looking to craft a class of students who will maximize what they have to offer and who will contribute positively to the school climate.
Most students should choose letter writers who know them well. I hear some students select teachers they know “write good letters” and I’ve heard other students complain that they are concerned about a typo or a poorly written letter (usually written by language teachers for whom English isn’t their native language). I’ve never heard of other readers attending to whether or not a letter is written well. After all, that letter writer won’t be popping up in English 101 in the fall. And teachers who write tons of letters may have little time to devote to each student, which could mean the letters are formulaic without a genuine attempt to depict the candidate in the letter. So I’d advise students to choose teachers who know them fairly well. And, best is if the teacher can comment on attributes across different settings-so someone who taught a class and coached a team and knows how you are academically and interpersonally (with adults and peers, as a team member and leader, etc).
I would not rely only on the idea that you have a good relationship with the teacher. Rather, I’d choose a teacher who knows the positive attributes about you and who can spend the time needed to write an informative letter. I don’t think you have to worry as much about whether the letter writer will mention a negative or not because that is not that relevant to how letters are read. There are no students who are perfect. So a mention of a flaw isn’t a deal breaker at all. I can’t recall a decision to reject a student that was based on having heard about one flaw about the candidate. Readers know that they exist in every student and that some writers mention them and some don’t. It’s also not about being very honest vs not. I would not shy from asking for a letter from a teacher who has seen me fail but then seen me overcome that failure. Resiliency has become a hot topic because so many students have had no opportunity to fail and their first failure in college can send them off a building, literally. A letter that describes a student taking academic risks, failing, and then emerging with a new understanding can be very influential (in a positive way). The major issue in terms of selecting a letter writer is to choose someone who knows the candidate enough to provide a description of the student’s positive attributes in a way that paints a somewhat detailed picture of the student for the reader. Then the reader has to decide whether the character painted by the letter writers (in concert with all the other credentials) would be a good fit for the school.
Anyone really think “you really do not want him for his academics anyway” is a good note? Or that not working at full throttle is an asset? (MIT would want to know the kid always aims for max learning, in a nice cooperative way.)
What positives they pick can be a message to adcoms. What they omit can speak volumes, too.