would love to have your opinions on my college list

College Search & Selection
1

<p>Hi everyone,</p>

<p>I'm a rising senior and I've been doing some college research since this spring. I've stumbled upon CC and I'm hoping that I could get some help from everyone in terms of my college list. These are my basic info:</p>

<p>I am an International student from Taiwan and goes to a top 15 boarding school in the west coast, I went there as a new sophomore and attended a private hs( not international) back in taiwan in grade 9. I am not a citizen and does not hold a green card.
test scores and gpa:</p>

<p>SAT I: reading 630 math 760 writing 640 (retaking it one last time in october, hoping for a 100+ points improvement on CR+M, writing should reach at least the low 700s as well)</p>

<p>SAT II chem 690(retake?), math 2 770
TOEFL 113 (not that important but maybe it could help a little bit?)</p>

<p>unweighted gpa 3.63, weighted gpa 3.72 would the colleges know that my school is pretty awesome and is tough on grading, thus making the low gpa more justifiable? </p>

<p>APs: only took AP chem in junior year, expecting a 4 or 5
going to take calc BC and Physics B senior year</p>

<p>ECs: school choir 3 years (including senior year)
orchestra 3 years
school musicial 2 years
jv football 1 year and varsity football 2 years
varsity swimming 3 years
chosen as school prefect ( 7 boys and 7 girls get chosen in a class of 70 kids)
has played piano for about 11 years, but did not enter any competitions or exams</p>

<p>I will write an essay that is related to choir or musical, because I absolutely love them and I am a section head(well not officially but everyone sees me as it) in the tenor section and my choir teacher(which is also the musical director) loves me and is writing one of my recs.</p>

<p>the above activities are the ones that I actively participate and seriously enjoy, while the rest imo are trivial and insignificant, which include being the secretary of the school's president, attending 1 mun conference, starting a chess club, did some public service that includes talking with old people and playing with little kids, etc...</p>

<hr>

<p>I'm planning to study chem E( haha it's not because I'm asian; I just love the idea of engineering), and below is the list of colleges that I've chosen. Assume that money is not a factor: my dad is able to afford sticker prices but of course a little bit of aid( even a few ks) would be great since we are not super rich or anything. </p>

<p>the order is in the difficulty to get in imo( just roughly and I may be wrong)</p>

<p>harvey mudd
swarthmore</p>

<p>rice
cornell
UC berkeley
wash u in st louis
UCLA
CMU
U michigan</p>

<p>lehigh
bucknell
lafayette</p>

<p>as you can see this list includes huge universities and small lacs, and this is because I still don't know which kind would suit me better; I like the more personal attention that a small lac could provide but bigger universities especially in engineering seems to provide more research and internship opportunities.(well harvey mudd doesn't count). Also I don't really like schools that only focus in engineering or science, so schools like "something" tech doesn't really appeal to me.</p>

<p>I understand that most schools listed above would be a reach for me, so if anyone has suggestions on making my list more balanced it would be great. Meanwhile I'll also be working hard to improve my SAT grades, GPA, write good and candid college essays and do anything else that would get me more prepared for college(such as polish up science and math skills).</p>

<p>Also I am going to visit some colleges that has a lower admission rate in my list this september, because I am planning to apply ED if I really love one of the schools. Is this a good idea that would increase my chances of getting accepted or should I RD to wait for my GPA to increase? </p>

<p>Thank you for reading this, and I would really appreciate any(even if it is not included in my questions) opinions or comments!</p>

2

<p>rice and lafayette great choices!</p>

3

<p>haha yeah I like those two a lot…
however I’m wondering if lafayette’s relatively weak reputation would allow me to get a job after college… especially that I’m a foreigner. I’m planning to work for a year or two and then go to grad school. I don’t really want to go to grad school right after college because I think gaining some work experience is pretty important. anymore opinions? thanks</p>

4

<p>UWGPA 3.63
SAT 2030</p>

<p>What is your class rank? Top 10%? If your school does indeed grade strictly then a high rank will compensate for the ‘lower’ GPA.</p>

<p>I will be blunt. I don’t see a true safety school on your list. Harvey Mudd is a huge reach, Swarthmore (does it have ChemE?) and Michigan Engineering are only infinitesimally easier to get into. With your statistics, Rice, Cornell, WashU, Cal, CMU and UCLA are also some form of reach school. Frankly I would not expect you to get admitted to more than 2 on that list. The remaining schools are matches with Bucknell being statistically the ‘easiest’ admit. By the way, Lafayette is an excellent school and if get in and perform well there you will most certainly get a job.</p>

<p>Talk to our college counselor. Pick one of Michigan, Harvey Mudd or Swarthmore (my vote is for Swarthmore). Pick three out of Rice, Cornell, CMU, UCLA, Cal and WashU
(my vote: Cornell, UCLA & WashU). Apply to all three of the remaining and then add at least two true safety schools (I suggest looking at Purdue, Case-Western, Minnesota, Iowa and maybe the University of Miami (FL)).</p>

<p>I’m not trying to discourage you, only to have you create a realistic list of schools. There is nothing worse than seeing students get depressed as the rejections pile up; do everything you can to avoid that.</p>

5

<p>Swarthmore doesn’t have ChemE - it has engineering. A sure way to get rejected is to apply to a school and state that you want to major in an area they don’t offer. </p>

<p>I also don’t understand the logic behind a list that mixes LACs, giant state Us and mid-sized privates. It’s not even as though all those schools have ChemE. Or even especially notable Chem depts. What are the selection criteria that you are applying here?</p>

<p>And I agree with vinceh that you have a lot of reaches and not many matches or safeties given your current grades and test scores.</p>

6

<p>thank you vinceh, I agree that most schools on my list are reaches. swarthmore does not offer chem E, however I really like the school and also I’m not completely set on studying chem E (mechanical E is another possibility), that’s why I’m still keeping swarthmore on the list. Your suggestion is really helpful, and your comment on lafayette gave me more confidence in the school (:
Also our school does not rank; however with seventy kids in the class I would say I fall in the range of top 20 percent(a safe estimation); my grades are fine but not super impressive.
thanks again!</p>

7

<p>M’s mom:
my list is indeed pretty strange, with lacs mixed with huge universities. But the reason is that I am not certain which kind of school would be a better fit for me; as I mentioned in the original post I see advantages on both lacs and big universities, and as of right now I couldn’t pick a side yet, and since I still have some time(well not a lot really) I would like to keep my options open.
Most schools in the list except for swat offer chem E, and I guess my selection criteria is based on my overall impression to the school as a whole, not just solely based on their chem E department ranking. </p>

<p>Actually I would like to hear opinions about this: IMO the ranking of the department doesn’t matter that much as long as they are all decently ranked(say in the top 50). For example berkeley is ranked 2nd in Chem E while cornell is ranked 13; does the two education quality in Chem E really make a huge difference? Also my another concern is that schools like umich and berkeley are huge schools and professors may not be as accessible, whereas in a school like rice or lafayette I may get more personal attention, thus perhaps I could actually learn more and benefit from the smaller class sizes, even though their chem E departments aren’t ranked as high as berkeley or umich. I would love to see opinions on this paragraph.
thank you M’s mom for giving me some feedback and provide foods for thought!</p>

8

<p>Lafayette has an excellent reputation, albeit not as strong as Harvey Mudd, Rice, Cornell and several others. As for employment opportunities for engineers, I realize it is a relatively small sample of 20+ 2012 graduates, but all of my daughter’s engineering friends have now either started jobs in the field or will be starting grad school within the next 6 weeks.</p>

9

<ol>
<li><p>Worrying about rankings is a fool’s errand. I find it impossible to comprehend how a school can be “1 better” or 2 worse" than another school. Furthermore, a great part of the reputations of these schools come from their graduate level programs, not their undergrad efforts. </p></li>
<li><p>College is not high school. Professors teach their sessions and then move onto the next class or onto their own research. Your classes will have regular meetings followed up by (often optional) breakout sessions to review the work done in class. It’s unlikely that a professor will have the time to sit and work you through any issues you have in class. As you get further into your major this will change as the classes get smaller. It’s far more likely that you’ll have more of a relationship with the TAs running the breakout sessions than the professors. </p></li>
<li><p>Finally, the application process is about you putting together a list of schools where you feel confident that you can be successful, have a strong chance of getting into one or two and someplace you can afford. LACs are smaller and may offer more personalized support but that usually comes at the price of having a smaller variety of choices (i.e., Swarthmore’s general engineering track versus any specified designation). College is much more of a sink or swim environment regardless of the size of the school.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>@hudsonvalley thanks for giving me more confidence in Lafayette!</p>

11

<p>Hi Vinceh:
regarding your first point, are you referring to the rankings of departments or the rankings of the schools as a whole? Also according to your statement, do you agree that the departmental ranking does not matter that much and that I should just pick a school that I like and can afford? Lastly may I ask which criteria did you base on when you narrowed down my list? thanks a lot! You’ve been providing me lots of useful comments and help.</p>

12

<p>if anyone could provide any opinions or thoughts they are more than welcome!
thank you</p>

13

<p>You have too many reaches, what about UCSB for Chem E?</p>

14

<p>Agree that one or two more safeties are needed. How about U Delaware for ChemE?</p>

<p>

I agree with your sentaments. The type of school really depends much on what kind of experience you are looking for. If research is important to you, the larger schools will have more of that going on, although there is research going on even at the smaller schools, like Lafayette: [Student/Faculty</a> Research Academics Lafayette College](<a href=“Curriculum Offerings - Academics · Academics · Lafayette College”>Curriculum Offerings - Academics · Academics · Lafayette College)</p>

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<p>Hi DrGoogle thanks I’ll look into UCSB.
To LC82: Thanks a lot for your comment, it has cleared up my mind. </p>

<p>thanks to everyone who commented the comments were very helpful!</p>

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<p>mewbubu,</p>

<p>Qualitative rankings, whether for entire schools or individual departments, are inevitably flawed. They are based on personal biases and open to data manipulation by the participants (see Claremont-McKenna controversy). Dropping rankings down to the department/subject level has even more problems. The biggest issue being that there are fewer data points, giving individual scores greater impact on the overall score.</p>

<p>Secondly, it’s all well and good to base a decision on a set of rankings if that’s the only criteria you want to use, but I do have a question for you: Are you absolutely and irrevocably committed to Chemical Engineering? What happens if you choose Chem E, get to college and suddenly realize you’d rather be studying Comp Sci or Nuclear E? Many if not most college students change their majors multiple times, basing your college choice on the subjective rankings of a small sub-set of available majors seems a recipe for disappointment.</p>

<p>As for my recommendations for your list, I suggested a profile of schools that I thought you might have some shot at admission. Personally I think Michigan and Harvey Mudd are extreme long shots. Rice, CMU Cal and probably UCLA aren’t much easier, but you need to balance out how much time you have to devote to applications and how much potential disappointment you’re willing to live through. I strongly urge you to add some safety schools.</p>

17

<p>Hi Vinceh,</p>

<p>first, sorry for the late reply! I was gone for a few days…</p>

<p>Secondly, I really appreciate your help! your explanation regarding the qualitative rankings really makes sense to me. Now I’m a lot less confused because of your help. Thanks again! Oh yes and I’ll definitely add in 1 or 2 more true safeties.</p>

18

<p>t’s unlikely that a professor will have the time to sit and work you through any issues you have in class.</p>

<p>Unless you go to an LAC. Then there are no TAs, and professors run any lab sessions that you have, and they also will sit with you to work out problems and issues you have. Lafayette, Swarthmore, and Harvey Mudd would have that kind of atmosphere, and possibly Rice with it’s undergraduate focus.</p>

<p>I would say that you need more than 1-2 safeties, especially as an international student. I’d say between 2-4 is a good number, but you also need some MATCH schools. Schools at which you have a good shot of getting admitted, but it’s not a wash. I think Lafayette and Bucknell are matches for you, maybe Lehigh.</p>

<p>Also, do you need financial aid? Some schools do not provide much financial aid to international students.</p>

19

<p>Add one or two safeties.</p>

20

<p>Hi Juillet,</p>

<p>Even though my parents will be willing to pay full tuition, it’ll still be the best if I could get some partial aid, considering that our family’s not super rich and my sister would also be in college after 2 years. I know that my chances of getting FA now is slim considering my low stats, but say I improve my sat to a 2200+, will that give me some chance to receive aid? I know that lafayette has a half tuition scholarship, and I’m definitely going to try and get it. Also Lehigh says on its website that it encourages everyone to apply to financial aid… don’t know whether it’ll affect my chances of getting accepted or not though (most likely yes). </p>

<p>thanks for your reply!</p>