<p>Tulane is and has been having honors weekends hosting the perspective admitted Tulane students. While they have been able to register for classes, many of the professors are not listed that teach the classes. The purpose of this is to allow the honors students first shot at class times, but not professors. There are a few professors listed (go to Gibson) on the Tulane web sight. My son was the same as yours and did not apply himself 100% academically for several reasons. He played 4 sports and became a Eagle Scout among other EC’s that took a lot of time. However, the biggest reason was that he never intended to apply to Tulane or any school requiring a high ACT or GPA. He was set on going to state school, so I never really pushed him either. He changed his mind in November his senior year…lol. So he applied to Tulane with a GPA and ACT score that was less than what it could have been had he been working for a higher goal since 9th grade. Since he no longer will be preoccupied with the sports, scouting, etc., I look for a better academic performance. Having said all that, I do respect the kids who have been working hard since 9th grade and think they deserve a lot of credit. I have pointed out to my son that some of these kids are getting some advantage on class selection. However, I have told him that he too can be in honors and register early for classes next year if he applies himself. He is not sure that he wants to be in Honors even if he has the grades. There are others who have chosen not to be in Honors as well. I think that someone who is dead set on being in Honors and it means a great deal to them could make really good grades 1st semester and be accepted. It really is not that big a deal to my son or me. It really shows that it does pay to bust your tail academically throughout high school. Another thing to consider is that if your child does squeeze into one of these classes that has some room left, the class will be full of Honors students who may be setting a pretty high curve, depending on how the teacher grades. Your child might want to avoid the class …lol I understand your agitation timeforcollege. However, I would not let this influence your decision. I did not let it influence mine nor did my S. The situation is manageable. Tulane is trying to persuade the top academic performers in the country to come to Tulane with scholarship money and small initial perks to make them feel special. In the end, that will benefit my S and your child as well. The academic standing of Tulane rises and our children benefit from the national recognition. The whole process is a give and take and we are satisfied overall. My S and his parents are really excited about Tulane.</p>
<p>PS - Only one freshman dorm is designated Honors and that is Butler. Essays are required to enter Wall but all students are able to submit one. Also, I understand that quite a few non honors students live in Butler and quite a few honors students choose to live in Monroe and Sharpe.</p>
<p>timeforcollege…In the end, all students are exceptional at Tulane.
The differences will not be noticed. Your child as well as mine will be given a clean slate.</p>
<p>This is a bit what I was afraid of. I think, timeforcollege, that you are creating a scenario in your mind that simply does not exist once students start at Tulane, and in addition are perceiving these small perks the HP students get completely out of proportion to their importance in the day-to-day life of the students. I especially flinched with your “second-class citizens” comment. Honestly, I would be shocked if you found one student at Tulane that felt like they were treated poorly or even in a lesser way because they were not in the honors program. You cannot go by what other high school kids say, they have zero real experience either. FYI, about 10% of the incoming students are in the HP.</p>
<p>As far as your question about people paying full fare getting less than those that don’t, I think that is a red herring. First, college is largely about academics, it shouldn’t be surprising that certain decisions are made based on academic records, even for those first coming in. By the money argument, people should be able to buy whatever privileges they want, or even that those paying less should get last crack at classes and the like, no matter what their academic performance. Tulane is hardly alone in allowing top performing students certain perks. You seem to be arguing that high school records shouldn’t matter, and that is an argument one can make. But I think you can acknowledge that there is an equally valid argument that students that have consistently performed academically from Day One of high school shouldn’t have that ignored. You say your son chose to focus on music for 2 years instead of academics. That was a choice, and if he were going to Julliard that would have been a different story. It would be a bit like saying that because a student chose to focus a bit more on academics rather than practicing more, they should still be in the first section of violins rather than the third.</p>
<p>I think it is time to take a breath and focus on what is really important here. Going back to your first post in this section
I can only tell you again, and you can believe me or dismiss this as you please, that the concerns you raise are almost exclusively philosophical in nature and actually have almost no impact on the real life of a Tulane student. That’s the bottom line.</p>
<p>S2 opted out of honors programs at every school to which he applied, although one stuck him in one anyhow (which got them immediately rejected from consideration). There are plenty of honors eligible students who elect not to live in honors dorms or participate in honors programs. Students don’t seem to care much overall. As someone mentioned earlier, most Tulane students would qualify as honors students elsewhere.</p>
<p>Fallenchemist, you got me on the money argument. It’s no good. And you’re right that my previous arguments for keeping the program (but perhaps starting it after the freshman year) are mostly philosophical. But philosophy is important and usually reveals interesting things about what a person or an organization really believes and most values. In addition, practically speaking, I don’t think this program, as currently structured, is good for anyone – not for the students (honors or regular) and not for the school. I suspect the honors students would continue to attracted by generous scholarships (and the idea of working hard their freshman year to earn a spot in the honors program) and may even have some doubts themselves about arriving at school with a gold “H” on their foreheads, as idad’s post seems to indicate. I apologize if my “second class” comment made you flinch. It’s true that this decision is stressful, and maybe the choice of words was too strong. But at the same time, it is impossible to create a “first class” honors category, without everyone else falling into a different class – even if it is only marginally. I hope this conversation (if anyone’s listening) will encourage Tulane to revisit the structue of this program and think seriously about whether this is really the direction in which it wants to keep traveling and how much it would actually lose (very little, I think) if it made a slight course correction. All of that being said, I’m pretty sure my son will still choose to attend Tulane and, if he doesn’t, it won’t be because of this issue. It seems like a GREAT school!</p>
<p>timeforcollege…
I guess you are aware of the fact that your child can take any Honors class this fall. One does not have to be in the Honors program to take a Honors class.
Furthermore, if your child decides to go into the Honors program next semester or next year, there will be no catching up to do.</p>
<p>Thanks, laughwithme. I did know that, although I’ve been told that priority for those classes is given to the Tulane scholars. But that’s not really what’s bugging me. What’s bugging me is that if my son chooses Tulane, it will be because of its fabulous campus community (and that community’s outreach to the larger community). But creating divisions in the freshman class (on this basis) before it even arrives seems inconsistent to him (and me) with a sophisticated understanding of how community is created, nurtured, and valued. In addition, we worry about whether this kind of strategy is going to move Tulane back to where it belongs in the rankings. We’re choosing to assume that Tulane knows what it is doing on this score, but from our novice perspective, bending over backwards to this extent (meaning the early admission to the honors program and the little perks that go with it, NOT the scholarship money) for the top 10% of the class seems a little over-eager. Basically, we’re making a big commitment here – of money, of course, but mostly of our son’s future. And we’re pausing because of a situation that seems really easy to correct.</p>
<p>Timeforcollege: Yes, a certain number of Vandy admits are placed in College Scholars upon admission. Others are admitted if they meet GPA requirements after the first semester and if they apply- very similar to Tulane it seems. My daughter is part of that program and she didn’t start out there. She actually didn’t even apply to be part of it because she was so stressed out academically at the end of her first semester, the thought of them requiring her to do anything that had the potential to make it any harder was terrifying to her! She had the requisite grades and a scholarship that apparently made her visible enough that they just sent her an email and told her that she was now a “College Scholar.” Fortunately, she had settled in at that point and realized that she was up to the task - as difficult as it was, and still is. I guess with this being my second child to go off to college and seeing how stressful it can be, I am leaving it up to my son whether he wants to be part of the honors program or not. I am sure that he will be academically challenged with or without the honors designation. I have no doubt that a Tulane degree will be able to take him where he wants to go as long as he applies himself while he is there.</p>
<p>I actually like the way UChicago handles honors. If one graduates with a 3.25 or above, one graduates with College honors. Each department also has its own honors requirements based on GPA and usually a paper, project, etc. A student typically must apply for departmental honors, College honors is automatic. There are honors courses that are open to anyone who has the prerequisites, no student has the designation as an honors student. However, many students who have the prerequisites do not take the honors courses because they are often crazy hard and time consuming.</p>
<p>You bring up a good point about stress, kreativekat. One of the reasons Tulane is so attractive to my son (and why he decided without any hesitation against going to our top state school) is that he is hoping to learn a lot from the incredibly diverse student body and from the New Orleans environment. It probably sounds crazy coming from a parent, but I really don’t want him to place undue emphasis on earning a 3.6 GPA (at least if it will require him to spend every waking hour in the library). He and I have also been talking about whether seeking admission to the honors program might cause him to prioritize his GPA in a way that could jeopardize his “education” by skewing his class choices. We hope he tries lots of different things at college, even classes that he might not do well in. (Isn’t it Steve Jobs who always talks about caligraphy being his most important class in college, and how it helped him become sensitive to certain Apple design issues?) So, apart from the philosophical early admission issues I’ve now beat to a pulp, that’s the issue we also discuss related to the program and why, from what my son says right now, he probably won’t prioritize joining if he goes to Tulane. It sounds like your daughter really rose to the challenge of her Vanderbilt education, and that’s terrific!</p>
<p>Well, she has always wanted to be a doctor, so she has been motivated by that desire. However, like you, I believe that balance is important and there have been times I thought she sacrificed too much - at least early on. She has loved her experience there, but it has been extremely challenging. She has learned to be a little more “balanced” and that has been truly rewarding to watch, but life is stressful enough these days and college should be the best four years of your life. My son is a little more “balanced” going in and I think Tulane is going to be a great fit for him - academically challenging with so many different opportunities for fun that cannot be found anywhere else. I lived in New Orleans for seven years before settling in the Midsouth, and there truly in nowhere like it.</p>
<p>I sure wish a student would chime in here, like my S, who wasn’t offered the honors program last year, chose to live in Sharp, is probably one of the biggest study geeks on campus and never seemed bothered that he wasn’t offered honors program on admission. </p>
<p>I was the typical parent wondering why he didn’t get it and thinking he’d prefer to live in Butler…but thank goodness it’s a year later; he still doesn’t seem to care and I’m guessing he’s been offered (or will be after this semester’s grade comes out, because he’ll qualify) and he probably still doesn’t care, because it hasn’t affected his relationships with anyone on campus.</p>
<p>Seems to me that there are very few star-bellied (or H-bellied) Sneetches walking around grounds and it’s just not that big a deal. My son’s gotten every course he’s wanted so far. So, really, what’s the big deal? I guess there’s some honors reception with Dean MacLaren or something during orientation or at the honors weekend, but seriously, every kid can go have coffee on Friday mornings with the dean on his office porch as well…</p>
<p>**You bring up a good point about stress, kreativekat. One of the reasons Tulane is so attractive to my son (and why he decided without any hesitation against going to our top state school) is that he is hoping to learn a lot from the incredibly diverse student body and from the New Orleans environment. It probably sounds crazy coming from a parent, but I really don’t want him to place undue emphasis on earning a 3.6 GPA (at least if it will require him to spend every waking hour in the library).</p>
<p>//Well, she has always wanted to be a doctor, so she has been motivated by that desire. However, like you, I believe that balance is important and there have been times I thought she sacrificed too much - at least early on. She has loved her experience there, but it has been extremely challenging. She has learned to be a little more “balanced”// **</p>
<p>This has been a concern of ours as well. My S will be taking the prerequisites for medical school at Tulane. We (wife, husband and son) have discussed a 5 year plan which will lessen the load each semester. I have mentioned this on the premed forum and been warned that medical schools do not like to see light course loads. However, I have talked to some medical schools that do not see it as a problem as long as something productive is being done with the additional time. We (the parents) want our S to experience the complete college experience and not have to spend “every waking hour in the library”. We are still researching the pros and cons.</p>