Would Tulane be a good fit for me?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Tulane University
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<p>Hello! I recognize that I'm coming down to the wire with this one, but I'm having a lot of difficulty deciding where I will be attending next year. I was admitted to Tulane with a 25k/y scholarship and admission to the Honors college, and it's coming down to choosing between it and two other schools. Though I loved NOLA and I think Tulane would be a good fit for me academically (I want to major in history, and I know that Tulane has a top history department), socially I find it kind of worrisome? I'm kind of the anti-sorority girl and though I'm not "straight-edge" by any means, I'd rather hang out with a group of friends than go to a huge party. I'm from southern California and I definitely don't fit the "preppy" mold that Tulane gets stigmatized with sometimes.</p>

<p>Obviously I know that not everybody at a school is going to fit into its stereotypes, but Tulane is relatively small (compared to the other schools I'm looking at), and I'm afraid that it'll be harder to avoid the party culture at a comparatively smaller school. I'm more interested in joining the newspaper and going to concerts than dealing with the whole frat scene. I was wondering if there was anybody who has been in a similar situation who could possibly shed some light on what Tulane is like socially. I know that anywhere I go, it's going to be my job to seek out a group of friends that I feel comfortable with, but I also know that it will be easier for me personally at some schools than others. I appreciate any feedback. (:</p>

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<p>I went to destination Tulane. Talked to a few students. It’s indeed possible to completely avoid the party scene. One tour guide told me there’s about 30-40% greek on campus and he managed to completely avoid it. There’s so much going on around the campus, so u have many things to do without drinking and partying!</p>

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<p>From what I can tell from a distance the frat/sorority scene is a bit more laid back and less exclusive than what it might be at other schools. Many of the kids in them actually do not live in a sorority of frat house and hence have many not Greek friends. Many of the Greek belonging kids also like to do many other things than simply drink and party, and do them with a wide range of friends. S2, who is now in a Frat, told me that he has been avoiding some of the larger parties lately, preferring to spend more time resting, relaxing, and attending campus events (a particular faculty presentation really excited him this week) when not studying (which takes a considerable amount of time). I think most find Tulane a very hospitable environment for people with many varied interests.</p>

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<p>Actually, none of the women live in sorority houses, save for a couple in each one that are essentially the caretakers of the house. Some people cite a law saying you cannot have more than X unmarried, unrelated women living together (the so-called brothel laws), and that may be true but I heard the same thing at 4 other universities my D visited and also heard that it is a myth in most places. Not a lawyer and I never looked into it.</p>

<p>The point is that at Tulane, they don’t have live-in sorority houses so it further accentuates idad’s point. Greek life is a complimentary thread in the overall fabric of the Tulane world, not a dominating presence. Tulane is very well balanced in that way, with many fairly evenly balanced areas making up the overall environment. Academics, music, Greek life, community service, sports, various clubs, dating, exploring New Orleans, the bar/club scene, etc. are all available and well represented at Tulane.</p>

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<p>Rachelmk’s mention of the Honors College brought up a concern we are struggling with in our family. Our son is almost certain that Tulane is the place for him, but his (and our) only lingering doubt relates to the honors program. One of the nice things I remember about starting college is that it is was a level playing field. Everyone started fresh and equal, the gun went off, and we all began competing as much or as little as we wanted to. The fact that a portion of the class comes in with a special label that they seem to take somewhat seriously (For example, our tour guide was a member of the honors program and mentioned it to us, in addition to telling us about special lectures that he was privy to) concerns us. I’m fine with Tulane giving extra money to kids it really wants to attract because that is mostly hidden from the other kids. But to separate the “honors” kids out in this additional and visible way (based on performance in high school), worries me. I know the other kids can eventually join the honors program if their college grades are good enough, but that’s not the same thing as everyone starting on a level playing field. The aspect of Tulane that most attracts my son is its emphasis on community. Is the existence of a high school performance-based honors program consistent with that emphasis? Is it otherwise defensible?</p>

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<p>This is one reason I continually correct people when they use the term “Honors College” for Tulane’s program (which Rachel did) instead of “Honors Program” as timeforcollege correctly put it. Honors Colleges are truly separate entities that often have courses that are only for the HC students, functions that are only for the HC students, and often virtually require them to live in a designated dorm. Tulane’s Honors Program is nothing like that. First, despite what your tour guide told you, there are no courses or “special lectures” that only HP students can take or attend. They would get preference in the case of too much demand, but so far that has not been an issue. In a direct e-mail exchange with Dr. Luongo, head of the HP, he was emphatic that Tulane would never keep an interested student from taking a course they wanted simply because it was designated as honors. The label is there mostly to alert the students that extra work may be required in the course, to indicate it might be more discussion oriented, to also indicate that it will be capped in size at a somewhat lower level than a normal section, and finally that it fulfills the requirement that HP students have to take at least one section a year to graduate with honors. Joining the program because you have the grades after starting at Tulane simply means you are on track to graduate with Latin honors.</p>

<p>Which brings me to the next point, the main purpose of the honors program at Tulane. It is not like the HC at many state universities, which do in fact have a compelling interest in giving the most talented academic students an option beyond regular classes and programs. Tulane is already highly selective, so in a sense the entire school is an Honors College. The main purpose for the program at Tulane is to help students that are interested in attaining the highest academic achievements do exactly that. So if a student wants to graduate with Latin Honors, which requires a research thesis and a GPA of 3.600-3.799 for magna and a 3.800-4.0 for summa. Being in the HP provides the focused advising for this. It also has a person that is assisting students that want to apply for internationally prestigious scholarships and fellowships such as Rhodes, Goldwaters, Fulbrights, Marshalls, and so forth. Only students at the highest levels after 2-3 years in college would qualify for these anyway, so it makes sense they would be in the HP.</p>

<p>Finally, there is the reality at Tulane, like any school, that going in as freshmen some students want a party dorm, some want a very quiet dorm, some want an “activist” dorm, etc. This is often regardless of academic ability and record going in, although certainly there is a decent correlation between the highest achieving students and their desire for a more studious dorm, but there are plenty of exceptions. Just two examples among many on here are Gabby, a current freshman that is an academic superstar who chose Monroe exactly because she wanted the quintessential freshman experience, and jym626’s son, a current junior who is similarly bright and talented and also chose Monroe for the same reason. Both of them were DHS winners, btw. There are plenty of others that choose Wall or JL for their own reasons, and of course many that choose the honors dorm, Butler. But Butler also has non-HP students living there because they do want that quieter atmosphere.</p>

<p>The reality “on the ground” on a day-to-day basis is that there is no way of telling who is in the HP and who isn’t (there is no scarlet “H”, even if that is the opposite connotation of what a scarlet letter represents. OK, there is no gold “H” on the students), and there CERTAINLY is not a bifurcation either socially or academically. It just doesn’t work that way at all. I cannot say strongly enough that this would be a very bad reason for not choosing Tulane if otherwise everything felt right about it.</p>

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<p>Thank you so much FC, I had a similar problem with the Honors Program but you have completely changed my perspective. Once again thank you for all of your interest, time, and helpful information.</p>

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<p>FC, again, comes out with a great post.</p>

<p>Tulane is first and foremost a community, a family. The honors program certainly has no bearing on this community aspect. Hell, some of the kids who start out in the honors program get asked to leave; conversely, some of the kids not asked to join the honors program originally are asked to join… Everyone is certainly equal. At a school like Tulane, everyone is expect to be academically superior…</p>

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<p>Thank you, fallenchemist, for that excellent explanation. It’s interesting that you used the gold “H” analogy because that’s exactly how we were describing the situation here at home. Now that I understand the program better, I see that it has significant advantages – mostly. I like that the students have a more serious track that they can choose and that they have advising that supports that choice. I remember the various honors awards being a bit obscure when I was in college. It kind of seemed like you did the best you could and waited to see what, if anything, you got as a result. This is really nice, in that the students know exactly where to go to be maximally challenged and what they have to do to win the “Latin Honors” gold ring. That being said, I wonder if the program would not be even better if it was self-selecting from the very beginning. As you say, the entire school is an honors college in that any student admitted is probably capable of doing honors work. The only question is whether he or she wants to. What would be lost by waiting until the end of the freshman year to designate the first set of Tulane scholars based on their earning a 3.6 gpa? And how does that compare to what would be gained in terms of community, in terms of not prejudging who is going to be most successful, and in terms of basing a college honors label on college performance (not high school performance). I’m interested in the answer to this question, but I do agree with you now that the issue is not significant enought to play a decisive role in a college decision.</p>

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<p>Thank you smchls. We really got a strong sense of the community you speak about during our recent visit to Tulane. I also fully expect that you are correct that the early designation (based on high school performance) of Tulane scholars has no effect on anything real that the students experience – especially because I now understand that all of the honors classes are open to everyone and anyone who performs at a high enough level can join. So I guess I’m probably nit picking at this point. But if “everyone is expected to be academically superior” as you say, shouldn’t they be treated that way from the beginning? As it is, aren’t some being treated “as more superior than others” when they come to Tulane with a special honors program designation? Sometimes structural program choices like this one reflect nothing about an organization’s values, but sometimes they do. Maybe next year, if my son decides to attend Tulane, I’ll look back and think: “Why did we worry about this?” But right now I guess it’s just hitting us wrong.</p>

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<p>

I think that is a very interesting way to look at it, although I would repeat that the Tulane program has little to no impact on community, so I wouldn’t worry about that in the least. I would also add to smchls’ list that some students that are invited to the HP choose not to join, and some that start out in it and stay academically qualified drop out, usually because they know they don’t want to do a thesis. Anyway, back to your egalitarian argument.</p>

<p>I think first that the reason Tulane does this is to attract more academically qualified students than they might otherwise. That student that also has Vandy, Duke, a couple of Ivies, etc. as choices and is tempted by Tulane by a great merit scholarship, New Orleans, and other factors outside of academics might see the HP as a tipping point in making the decision. Not because it segregates them from “lesser” students, that would be wrong on so many levels I wouldn’t know where to start. No, but because they know they will get a “focus” that they would also get at the very top ranked schools and so they feel reassured they will have similar opportunities coming out of Tulane.</p>

<p>I think another reason is, and one that you and I may disagree on somewhat (which is fine, of course), is that many of these students have worked very hard in high school and achieved much. I am not sure I see anything wrong with recognizing that from the start at college, since they still have to prove themselves to stay in and others not starting out in the program can likewise prove they are their academic equals. I don’t see them as being prejudged, only as being assessed based on real achievements so far. After all, they will get assessed throughout college, and assessed yet again by grad schools, med schools, law schools, and employers. I understand you are saying you favor everyone starting fresh with no labels of any kind, and I get that. Many schools have no HP or HC, so certainly there are those who agree. I think Tulane just chooses to both recognize that achievement thus far by students, and to give those most serious students an organized, focused start on top outcomes from the beginning. After all, many of these students start out virtually as sophomores, credit-wise, and they already know some things they want to achieve.</p>

<p>In the end, I can see it both ways, but I favor Tulane’s approach of giving some students that “something extra”, which is so appropriate for a school in New Orleans. (See Lagniappe). However, it really won’t affect the experience of community or socialization one iota, I don’t think, and that was your major concern it seems.</p>

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<p>interesting conversation…and one I will bookmark…</p>

<p>I still don’t know if any of the “B” students I advise would “fit” into Tulane academically; we do know a number of “B” students who were accepted this year, but will not be attending…</p>

<p>as the profile of Tulane increases (again) and as more kids accept the merit $$ and are “A” students, although the “B” students are accepted (at full pay), the question starts to come up as to whether the academic competition will be too rigorous for them…we made the personal decision to “pass” on Tulane for my HS senior based on this assessment…</p>

<p>But I do need to figure out, going forward, what I think about this…since I do have interested students looking at Tulane going forward…</p>

<p>Obviously, there are kids who thrive in an environment where everyone around them is a high achiever; but not everyone fits that mold…</p>

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<p>You seem to have two well-stated arguments for the current program, fallenchemist. The first is that the most highly qualified incoming freshman might be attracted to the focus the program provides. But if honors program offerings are open to all as you stated earlier, then that focus is available to these super achievers without stamping the gold “H” on their foreheads. Your second argument (and I like the fact that you don’t tiptoe around it!) is that the super achievers deserve (or perhaps might be further encouraged to choose Tulane by) this extra recognition. But aren’t both of those points taken care of by generous scholarship money, plus the chance to participate in a great honors program upon arrival at campus (on an egalitarian and continued merit basis of course :))? I know what you mean about life being full of assessments. I’m all for that. But I question the relevance of this particular assessment for this purpose, and I suspect any marginal value it has in attracting superior students is probably outweighed by the negatives previously discussed. And here’s another consideration. I know Tulane is trying to work it’s way back up to where it belongs in the rankings. But will Tulane get there if programs like this one are structured in a way that presume an inferiority to schools that Tulane wishes to compete with (e.g. Duke)? I know that what made Tulane stand out for my son, in addition to New Orleans, was the close campus community and the concern the campus shows for the larger community around it. Shouldn’t Tulane build on that as one of its competitive advantages, and make sure its choices in every area (including how it treats its entire freshman class) promote community, not potentially undermine it with premature and high school-based academic distinctions?</p>

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<p>You also make your arguments well, timeforcollege. If your son enjoys debating as much and inherited some of your talent for it, he will do well at Tulane!</p>

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<p>timeforcollege, Tulane offers many programs that are more attractive than its competitors (e.g. Duke). In my case, the Creative Premedical Scholars program and a little bit of scholarship they gave me put Tulane ahead of Duke. However, I didn’t get into the Honors Program, but I don’t feel the ones who are in any inferior since I’ll be pursuing the same route as them even taking Honors classes and develop honors thesis due to the program I’m interested in. I guess the only advantage of being in HP is actually the little bit more scholarship and Butler, although I can live in Butler if I have a honors roommate.</p>

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<p>my S is not in honors either. However, he is hoping to room in Wall or Butler. Those are the two choices he put down. He does not want to be in the louder dorms. As far as the honors program goes, I really do not have a problem with the structure. The thing that I dislike the most is the honors students getting first shot at the classes and professors freshman year. I think from sophomore year forward that would be OK because everyone is given a chance to earn the grades to be in honors at that point. Also, I think that if a non honors student request a quieter dorm then that student should be considered for Butler. Essentially, that (a quieter dorm to study) is the purpose behind the classification of a dorm as honors. One way or another, they should accommodate the students request. As timeforcollege pointed out, many of these students are full pay and that also is a reality just as much as the kids who really worked hard to get placed in honors. The parents of the other students are really working hard to pay in the neighborhood of $250,000 over 4 years. In the end, the student and their family have worked hard to attend Tulane.</p>

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<p>Smile, great miss think alike. I’m not in honors but put wall and butler as my choices. Haha</p>

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<p>I don’t know about Duke, but Vandy does have an “honors” type designation similar to the Tulane program, although it is not widely publicized and does not have a special Honors Weekend or early registration perks. It is called College Scholars.</p>

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<p>edit*** Smile, great minds think alike. I’m not in honors but put wall and butler as my choices. Haha***</p>

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<p>kreativekat, do you know whether Vanderbilt designates its honors students before they arrive on campus? And, Smile, your post shows that the differences between honors and regular students are meaningful, in that honors students get first shot at dorm choices and classes. I’ve also learned that there was a special honors weekend this spring, and that honors students have already registered for their classes. Now that my son is talking to his friends about going to Tulane, he has been asked more than once about whether he was admitted to the honors program. Does anyone know what portion of the class comes to Tulane with this designation? I’m starting to think it’s pretty high, given how much I’m hearing about it. Come to think of it, when we were visiting, we ran into a boy from my son’s high school who immediately raised the issue and assumed my son was in the program. Smile’s point about the other students paying full fare and getting lesser service is right on target. Where else does that happen in life? All I read about lately is “the college bubble”, and the fact that $55K per year may be unsustainable. Shouldn’t Tulane be very careful about making sure the value, and perception of value, is as strong as it can possibly be for the majority of students – the ones whose tuition is presumably supporting the generous scholarships that attract the otherwise Ivy-bound students? And, as to Rodney’s point about the non-honors students being “B” students, I don’t see the GPA/SAT statistics bearing that out. But I’m going to check into this very carefully before my son makes his final decision this week. As for my son, he spent his freshman and sophomore years obsessed with music, and not school. But once school kicked in, he has equaled or exceeded the performance of the best students in his school, and I don’t think he’s finished growing academically. So, Tulane, do you really want to keep making kids like this into second class citizens before they even arrive on campus?</p>