Would You Choose to Be Black Again?

Student Lounge African-American Students
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<p>Perhaps as a male my expriences are a little different, but when I was younger I did not want to be white so much as not as dark. I played football and I would wear sun tan lotion to prevent myself from getting darker and that other ridiculous jazz.</p>

<p>But from a physically attractive perspective dark black guys seem to be as desirable if not more desirable to girls from what I have seen. I am not dark but it just seems as if for guys skin color is not that important, for women though it probably is an issue. </p>

<p>I will admit that my conception of beauty is skewed toward a white conception of attractiveness, but I don't think that is limited to myself. Several other black males I have spoken to about this very subject matter have similar opinions on what constitutes an attractive girl and it is almost ubiquitously features that are more prominent on white women. For instance I was at a debate tourney last weekend and there was an absolutely gorgeous black girl, then I realized that nothing about her was a "black feature" from her hair to her face and even her figure, she was almost indistinguishable from the typical skinny white girl, but she was a knockout.</p>

<p>This is a touchy topic that I think my personal opinion will only compound but it seems apparent that the more "desirable" members of the black race choose to date white people. I mean we on here are probably amongst the very top of the blacks of our age group and how many of us are going to actually marry a black person? For me every time I think about being married my wife is usually always white. For the most successful black males and most attractive black women they seem to gravitate toward white spouses.</p>

<p>I mean think about it who are the black guys who are in lasting marriages with white women? Typically lawyers, doctors (my friend's dad), executives, and other high income positions. And for women I rarely see a black girl who is completely ugly with a white guy (unless the guy is ugly himself).</p>

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<p>^^^It's a generally accepted fact that dark males and light females are the paragons of human beauty in most cultures and societies. You see nearly 3 times as many black male-white female marriages than black female-white male relationships. Phrases like "tall, dark, and handsome" only contribute to this theory. </p>

<p>The "problem" is that it's normal for black males in the upper echelons of society to date white women, but black women in similar positions seem to cling on to the hopes of "finding Mr. Right, not Mr. White." Look at any issue of Ebony, Essence, Jet, etc. in the past...i don't know, EVER :), and you'll find a story about how black women are being "slighted" by black men. Black women have the highest rate of being unmarried of any race, and Asian men are up there too, simply because both of these groups are the exact opposite of what is deemed attractive in most cases. Asian men tend to be shorter, lighter, not as muscular- the opposite of your athletic, dark/tanned white guy/black guy. Black women are obviously not light-skinned (if you are thinking of the darker skinned women instead of the really light-skinned ones with white features), have thick, prominent features, and are frequently either "curvy" or straight-up overweight. There's only so much one can do- people argue that black women can lose weight, "fix their hair", that Asian men should spend more time at the gym instead of the library- before they realize that they can't change their big nose and prominent hips and short stature and that they have a choice to make. They can either "stick" with their own race and hopefully find a member who appreciates their beauty over that of average standards, or they can look in other places, as an increasing number choose to do, for people who obviously don't care about race/beauty standards as much.</p>

<p>Dreaming Out Loud, I get your point- I have a relaxer as well, but at the same time, is it really worth it? Relaxers cause hair loss and scalp damage. You're putting something that's 10,000 times the pH of your skin directly onto your hair. It's dangerous and potentially cancer-causing. People don't choose not to go natural because it's going to be super-hard to take care of. It's up to you to what extent you want to take of your hair. Things like dreadlocks, afros, etc, are very simple- I mean, if boys have them, they can't be that difficult :) People don't go natural because, well, it's not cute. No one wants a girl with a little afro, or one with crazy hair. Why does the phrase "nappy" have such a negative connotation?</p>

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<p>Dbate- I do agree, it does seem as if it's not important for guys about what "shade" of black you are. For example, I'm Haitian and part German, my grandfather had to leave my grandmother because his family didn't like that she was dark. I've never met my grandfather but from the pictures I've seen, his eyes are green and he has dark brown hair. I wish I had his eyes! But I love my skin color. I just hate the fact that people make such a fuss about "light-skinned" or "dark-skinned"...does it really matter? </p>

<p>Recently last summer I went to Haiti to visit my dad's family who raised me until I was seven, and my step-mother's family. My step-mother is half Haitian half Japanese..I know strange combination, but she claims Haitian (lol). Anyway, while we were there all the younger girls around my age were obsessed with the shade of my skin. I remember a girl coming up to me and telling me how beautiful my skin was and that she wished she were light like me. I am the kind of person who tries to keep myself at a distance to these kinds of issues..especially the whole light skinned/dark skinned issue..I never knew though that people in my country, almost all the females were so indulged in the shade of their skin..it felt so absurd. I also remember the girl showing me how many light skinned girls I had seen passing by while we sat on her porch all used lightning cream..it was appalling..only because I've never heard of such a thing. I didn't understand how anyone would want to change their color, except for tanning of course. My sister, who is incredibly beautiful and one year younger then me was on the trip with me. Mind you, we look exactly alike, sometimes were mistaken for twins, except she's darker then me. While we were in Haiti, I noticed guys tended to ignore her when I was in the room and always always mentioned how light I was..it was getting pretty annoying. I knew that they couldn't have been ignoring her because of my beauty; because we looked the same! lol. </p>

<p>People would even refer to me differently because I was lighter...it was very odd..In Haiti they had names for people who are light, such as grimo, or rouge. I felt like I was going crazy because I didn't care if I was light or not, honestly I wish I was dark. I think dark beauty is much more mesmorizing then light skinned beauty. But, that's another topic for another day. </p>

<p>Sorry I went on ranting, I get very sensitive about these issues. </p>

<p>I do agree that it is odd though, when you think about it, the case your pointing out about every successful black man typically marying a white women..I wish I knew the reason why...Why do you feel that you'll get married to a white woman? It's okay if you don't want to answer, I just have no idea why the intelligent black men tend to gravitate in the "white" direction. lol, hope that wasn't offensive, it just happened to click.:)</p>

<p>princessbell- I'm totally wondering the same thing! I mean when I was little my hair was curly when it was wet but once it dried, I don't even think a comb could untangle it lol, which often caused people to say my hair was nappy. I didn't understand at first, but I quickly accepted it as the hair that most AA girls have..And relaxer is a killer...ugh! But thank goodness for my good hair or else I would have been bald b/c I can take relaxer every 2 months and my hair would be fine..it still burns though..I wish they came up with a natural one that actually worked, and didn't burn! :(</p>

<p>p.s. that was also one of my reasons for wanting to go to an HBCU b/c I know if I went to a PWI I probably wouldn't even take care of my hair lol. Most likely I would have to troop to find a salon that can actually do my hair without breaking/cutting my hair.</p>

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<p>I also don't have a problem with my skin color. I mean, it is what it is, you know? I can't change my skin color and I am comfortable with it. I have never been made fun of because my skin color, and maybe that's because I live in a neighborhood with a diverse population. I agree with princessbell, that there is only so much a person can do. We need to be able to find someone, either within our race or outside of it, that is just as or more comfortable with our color and race. I think that it is personal preference who we would see ourselves married with, like Dbate can see himself married to a white woman, but I can not see myself married to a white man. Not because there is anything wrong with inter racial relationships and not because there is any pressure on me to marry/date in my race, I just feel more comfortable dating within my race (I have dated outside of it before).</p>

<p>I also have to perm my hair, not because I am trying to look white or Asian or anything, because it is a lot more manageable if I perm it. lol My hair has really thick roots, and I have to spend some time in the bathroom in the morning working on it. I am lucky that there is a salon on my campus, because I am deff going to need to visit that to get my hair done. I am just so loazy sometimes when it comes to my hair.</p>

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<p>I feel almost the same way with princessbell. </p>

<p>My family being directly form Ghana, and the fact that I lived on an Island for half my years before moving to Texas to be discriminated as black. My father is white and no one cares. I learned eve since elementary that black is the dominate trait and black is not as good as white. i always longed for my dads grey eyes but I was fine with my skin. I am part African part European and yet grew up as an islander. Every time at school if I filled a for circling white and black I received it back with white crossed out. I recently decided to circle oceana or pacific islander, but realized that with affirmative action that I may be grouped with Japanese and get reverse discrimination. </p>

<p>I have learned that if society wants to discriminate against me for being black, I might as well take their money through affirmative action, and not pay 55 thousand a year to go to my school.</p>

<p>And the best way to refute their discrimination is by being the 'token' kid that disgusting term 'a credit to your race' even though I am not African American I will forever be grouped there. And to add to that the black community is VERY harsh when they see someone succeed. (at my school at least) Not realizing that they can become better academically if they tried: if we were to overlook how education has barred them by leaving them in regular classes with teachers that do not care.</p>

<p>I assume that all this would change once College starts, and if it doesn't how does one deal with it? How to keep going in an intensely competitive world thats MADE to be set against you.</p>

<p>Sorry for the ramble.</p>

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<p>I agree with a lot of the points brought up in previous posts, specifically the ones made by Debate, Superwoman and the OP and like the OP I'm African (born in Nigeria, family moved to N. America when I was a baby). Also, like Debate, my "conception of beauty is skewed toward a [western] conception of attractiveness, but I don't think that is limited to myself." After reading these well thought out posts, I tried to think about “colorism” in broader terms.
I'm not sure if one can unequivocally state that black (females in particular) are trying to be white because they get perms among other things to conform to a western view of beauty.
I say this because I could not get over this question in my thought process: A significant number of white women in particular tan frequently, by darkening their skin are they trying to be blacker in some way?
I think the question could also be applied to the field of cosmetic plastic surgery where many women insert collagen (I think that's what it is, I’m not an expert though) into their lips to thicken them. Thick lips are generally considered a characteristic of African Americans, so again are white women trying to be blacker because of this? I think most people would agree that tan skin is generally considered more vibrant and looks healthier than pale skin in the western concept of beauty.
After thinking it through, I came to the conclusion that although in the western view of beauty (for females, I haven’t thought it out for my own gender yet), physical characteristics that are considered to be attractive in women are most often found in Caucasian women still, there are desirable physical traits often found in African American women (like skin tone to an extent and full lips) that are considered desirable in our western view of beauty.
So, I think everyone tries to conform to the definitions of western beauty, but black women who have more apparent afro-centric traits (darker skin, tangled (I don't like the word “nappy”) hair) have a farther distance to travel in order to obtain this western idea of beauty, so their actions seem more drastic in comparison to white females who just enjoy tanning, for example, but don’t take other measures to change their appearance to a point where the change could be identified by race (like thinness, you can make the argument that Barbie dolls or Hollywood starlets that most often are white perpetuate the notion that being very thin is attractive and thus it can be identified by race, but I don’t think that carries much weight, pun fully intended).
I hope people will comment on my thoughts.</p>

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<p>All I have to say is, I love my natural hair!</p>

<p>Any girls on this discussion right now should at one point say goodbye to the perm &put down the straightner...just to see what your hair is like. I thought I would hate it and feel really ugly with my natural hair. But I love it!</p>

<p>Haha, this post doesn't really tie in to the topic that well. But regardless, I felt the need to share.</p>

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<p>2legit2quit....no perm or straightner?! I probably couldn't pull it off, although my cousin looks beautiful with her afro. I feel like you did, I think I would look a hot mess. lol..but I have always wondered about it, about how I would look if I donned a "Beaneatha from the Raisin in the Sun afro" which is all natural like you are talking about .</p>

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<p>It seems that while some of you feel black Americans are discriminating against you, you are doing the same thing with your generalizations of how they behave. I would call myself culturally West Indian but American by birth, and I have received comments like "oreo," etc, but who cares. You are not living for anyone else but yourself. Remove yourself from the circles of people who seem to talk down to you because you value different things. Princess, you may not consider yourself black, but you will be seen that way. My mother felt the same way about people calling her African-American because she really isnt. I would think you of all people would be proud of your African heritage especially since you, unlike most black Americans, can actually trace your roots and know where you came from (I assume). It sounds like a lot people here have a deeply ingrained hatred of self and dont want to admit it. Why cant you appreciate the fact that your hair is different? If someone doesnt like you because of what is on your head and not what is in it, that isnt someone you should be around. Natural hair is not more difficult to maintain. I understand that you have to deal with discrimination in this country because everyone does (even white people). How about not wishing to come back as another race but educating ignorant people on the race you do belong to now.</p>

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<p>Yay logical interjection by Kitties!!! I actually have dealt with it and gotten over it this post just brought back bad memories, and obviously the fact im still unsure.</p>

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<p>I would gladly be black, personally I am known as a oreo but my personality would not be awesom if i did not have all this color to back me up. Black people have heritage, culture we set trends even when they might not be the best and even when they are we get jipped. I have always had a good blend of friends asian, caucasian, hispanic but the ones that appeal to me most are my fellow brothas and sistats. Being black is totally cool the hurdles that we have to overcome makes us stronger, when we encounter problems its not a total and complete shock because we have fought our whole lives and we always will fight .</p>

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<p>Ok this is strictly not to judge but just to relate and offer a different point of view
Now like you I am a beautiful chocolate goddess who experienced some slandering for my skin in middle school, I like to annunciate my words properly, I am a intellect and my parents are immigrants but from Jamaica.
Now I do agree that pretty much most if not all of the jokes about me do come from my fellow black peers but for some reason I still connect with them and I dont take the jokes personally anymore . In every race people are made fun of for doing , looking or being out of their norm stereotypes so no matter what color you are you are going to get mocked.
And I too used to stand by the standards that white people have for us but i am now a liberated negro setting new standards, I recently cut off all my hair because Im through with perms , i do wear extensions but my weave must be nappy and I have actually started a new trend, people like you an me who have an see issues within the community need to step up an do something about it, if someone talks about my color i really dont trip</p>

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<p>I WOULD NEVER THINK OF ASKING MYSELF A QUESTION LIKE THIS. but i am happy that i came across something like this. this put me into major thought about myself. I WOULD NEVER WANT 2 BE ANYTHING BUT BLACK! i am a very dark skinned female. Im not skinny. I have my lip pierced and i talk what ppl call “white” I am from a very urban setting in IL. I just luv being black. Its things that we can do that no 1 can do. To this day we are still proving ppl wrong. Obama is the main example. i am so proud of all the black ppl who have proved every1 wrong. and i plan on being 1 of those black ppl</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t ask to be black, honestly. I’ve never found any sort of acceptance in the black community or culture, nor have I wanted it, so I’d rather just be a human being :). </p>

<p>BTW, my elementary school was 92% black, middle was 18%, and high school is 23% so I think I know a bit about the black experience and whatnot :)</p>

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<p>Not to sound caustic, but what’s the point of asking? Anyway, I don’t mind, or try to think too much about what race I am, since I can’t change it(those who’ve tried haven’t succeeded insofar as I can tell(I.E, Michael Jackson), and it is not, if you think about it, all that important. I haven’t lived in a black neighborhood, but when I’ve been around other blacks outside of my town, I usually get along fine. I like the effective immunity to lice, the fact that I never need a tan( which many non blacks I know seem to find extremely cool), and the ease of keeping my hair in order( it never grows long!).
Since wishing that I was another race isn’t going to get anything done for me, just as wishing that I could change time isn’t going to get anything done for me, I don’t totally see the point of digging to deep into this question. I’m black, and I’m here as I am, and I can’t, and don’t want to change that. That’s just my two cents.</p>

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<p>It makes me sad to see so many black people --decades after I successfully fought with my mother to go natural – still apparently think there’s something wrong with nappy hair.</p>

<p>I have long locs, and those are my best feature. I absolutely love my hair. It also is far easier to maintain than would be perms. My hair is naturally nappy – and I say “nappy” proudly. It’s not an insult to me. I do nothing to my locs except wash them, twist them occasionally and curl them by rolling them on perm rods. </p>

<p>Perms were awful: burned my scalp, dried my hair and caused it to break off, and perms were difficult to maintain. </p>

<p>People of all races and nationalities complement me on my locs. That never happened when I had permed or pressed hair.</p>

<p>With my locs, I feel like an Egyptian goddess. Indeed, when I was in Egypt and saw the pyramids, the goddesses in the paintings had locs.</p>

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<p>Wow, the self-hate in this thread is disgusting.</p>

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<p>Hmm. Interesting how hair, skin tone, body image is brought up almost as often as racism and prejudice in this thread. Still, I’ll bite
Obstinate, Northstarmom, I hear what you’re saying. A lot of my own struggles with race, once I got old enough to understand and think for myself, come from other black people doubting/ rejecting me for doing my own thing. My own thing being keeping my hair natural, dressing, talking and acting however I want. I’m a shy, semi-modest, diligent kid; my choices don’t offend any other ethnic group but my own. It’s annoying hearing my best friends (who are black) try to explain to other black people why I am the way I am. I envy white kids at times, only because they are more often judged as individuals and can do what they want. They don’t necessarily feel obligated to be in certain classes/ECs/dorms, at certain clubs/ parties etc because they’re white. I came to college hoping to get away from all that and it has followed me here. Being black is the ****, I’d never want to change but I wish we would make it easier for each other.
Its funny bc I’m cool with kids I grew up with (in Harlem and the Bronx) but the kids at prep school and college try to doubt me lol</p>

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<p>I really only wanted to post in this thread for one reason, but I’ll answer the OP’s question too and elaborate some. I would always, always be black. No, I’m not the most involved in black culture, yes I perm my hair, yes I’ve had people tell me that I “act white,” and had people (both black and white) assume I must be black and “something else,” that my sister must only be my half sister (which isn’t too offensive since 2 of my 3 siblings do have a different parent) because she is dark and I am light, but I am still black and I would never choose to be anything else.
I think sometimes when I was very, very little, around 2, I wanted to be darker because my siblings made fun of me for being light, but I’ve mostly been happy with how I am. I always wanted green eyes, but that’s because I was born with them and feel sort of cheated that they went away. I always wanted red hair, but that’s because lots of people in my family have red hair (both grandmothers, 2 of my 3 aunts. So most of my female relatives). I’ve never wanted to be something really outside of myself.</p>

<p>As to the actual point I wanted to make, I’m tired of my hair being political. I perm it. I like it. There’s really nothing else to say about it. My sister locks it. She likes it. My mother perms it. She likes it. My mother’s sister locks it. She likes it. I don’t submit more to Western culture than my sister does. In fact, I care more about going to a diverse school than my sister did (she chose Northwestern and knows 2 other black people there. Two!). My hair is not political, it’s the stuff on my head.</p>

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<p>I feel the same way! my sister and i are always mistaken as twins but they always call her the dark twin…i hate it! i remember when i was little and i used to wish on being darker…but my eyes are hazel and i hate when people ask me, “are you sure youre just haitian”, its very annoying! but i love being black, wouldnt change it for the world!</p>