You I think are assuming I am castigating the extreme atheists or in some way was defending the extrem Right wing christianity that seems to have dominated societal and political discussions in this country for a long time, I am not, all I simply said was that people who grow up not knowing other beliefs or ideas, tend to see things with what they are familiar with. The extreme atheist who grew up in areas dominated by very conservative/fundamentalist Christians can come to see Christianity and Christians as ‘all being like that’ , because that is all they saw, and of course it would inform their position…but it causes them to not see the forest for the trees, that the extreme Christians dominate certain areas, in others they are practically non existent, and that most people who have some kind of faith are not like they saw. Actually, with the faithful, those I have met who I think really are true to their faith, are quiet people who live their faith, not throw it in people’s faces shrug. It is no different than the people who think people who are smart are a bunch of arrogant elites looking down at other people, it is true of the blacks who think all non blacks are racist. it is true of the whites who have not lived with people different than themselves and assume things because they simply don’t know.
The old native american statement, about not judging someone until you have walked 100 miles in their moccasins (or what is purported to be native american, wouldn’t be surprised if that was written by a Burma shave ad man…) comes to mind, you can’t do that unless you actually get to know and see what other people are.
Part of my point is that because of the pervasiveness of religion…especially Christianity permeating many areas of our public life, especially in certain regions of the country, it’s much much harder for someone raised in US society to not understand or have some awareness of what religious folks…especially fundamentalist Christians believe. Especially when such religious groups loudly proclaim their beliefs in public and it receives coverage from national and even international newsmedia.
Including those raised in atheistic/agnostic homes unless they were one of the unusually few exceptions who were so isolated from mainstream US society/pop culture that they were literally hermetically sealed from it.
The reverse isn’t nearly as true as many public areas of mainstream American life assume one is a believer or even a Christian…especially if one goes to regions of the US where fundamentalist Christianity dominates all areas of a given local/regional public and private life.
I am not a fan of ANY school whose instruction is overtly biased toward one political or religious point of view. I especially don’t like it when the school is a primary or secondary school, since then the children are often too young or immature to being able to distinguish opinion from fact. Regrettably, a school can represent a certain body of ideas/beliefs but the day-to-day application of those ideas to academics can be quite flawed, which concerns me. Or I can disagree with their manner of application. For example, I can believe that dinosaurs existed, species have changed over time, and that God created the earth. For other religious people those ideas are incompatible. Although I have very strong beliefs, both political and religious, when we discuss matters at home I try to present some reasons to hold different viewpoints so my kids never get the idea that people who think differently are the enemy as Black was taught, or stupid or immoral or whatever. I think that especially a university ought to allow for diverse thought, even unpopular or repugnant ideas, to be held by students and discussed freely precisely because truth has power.
That said, the above doesn’t mean I don’t teach my children the tenets of our faith. I most certainly do. But I agree with intparent that if my philosophy is rational and good-hearted, then I don’t have much to worry about. Similarly, if God exists He can defend Himself quite well from any onslaught against Him or against those who trust in Him.
@cobrat:
The issue isn’t understanding what Christian fundamentalists believe, not at all, the issue is that people frame belief around fundamentalist Christianity, because that is what the media and politicians who are their allies have thrown oujt there. When you talk about the pervasiveness of religion, you are talking the pervasiveness of fundamentalist Christianity that ‘owns’ more than a few places in this country, but without this going off track, that is part of the problem because that isn’t what Christianity is to most people, fundamentalist Christians make up around 25% of the population. The point is that many people see fundamentalist Christianity and its members and assume that is what faith is about, when what they believe is only their beliefs and they are a minority, despite what the press tries to make them out to be.
Christian belief is a very varied thing, and those who see only the religious right and fundamentalists are claiming that as the whole which is the problem, because they haven’t bothered to look at the whole, that’s all. When a hardcore atheist denounces all faith as the realm of the simpleminded who believe the earth is 6000 years old, it is ignoring that the overwhelming majority of Christians are pro science (and other faith groups, of course, I find it ironic that Jews whose scripture includes genesis generally laugh at the idea the earth is 6000 years old or that their scripture was meant to be taken literally…).
Blindness comes from being blocked, it can be because you grew up around fundamentalists and never saw the “River of Life Church” (about the only good scene in “Sweet Charity” IMO, Sammy Davis reminded me a lot of the priest of a church I once belonged to lol,), or you experienced a very conservative Catholic faith growing up gay and assume all Christians felt the same way, or you grew up where you didn’t know any muslims and bought the bs that muslims in the US wanted to forcibly convert them or impose their law on them shrug.
If the child’s faith is strong, exposure to different viewpoints and ideas is unlikely to shake it.
However, let’s be realistic. College-age kids are hardwired to find partners and fall in love.
If the parents or the student feel strongly about the family’s faith, it probably wouldn’t be a good idea for the student to attend a college where few others share that faith. The kid is likely to end up dating – and perhaps falling in love with – someone of a different faith, which can lead to very unhappy situations.
I doubt that the Black family were paying “top dollar”: New College of Florida is part of the state’s public system, and is quite affordable for in-state students. It was an interesting, counterintuitive choice for that young man, but the ability to construct his own curriculum and opportunities for independent study might have been attractive. It’s a terrific college, and often overlooked and underrated. My son goes there, and I’m delighted that they are being spotlighted in such an uplifting way.
@MotherOfDragons “He’s choosing his racism over his son. That’s on him.”
Actually that’s not exactly true. According to the article" Derek arrived at his grandmother’s house for the party, and he would later remember how strange it felt when his half-sisters would barely acknowledge him. His mother was polite but cold. Don tried to invite Derek inside, but the rest of the family wanted him to leave. “I got uninvited to my own party,” Don later remembered. “They said if I wanted to see him, we both had to go.”They left and went for a drive, first to the beach and then to a restaurant, where they sat at a booth near the back. Derek still had his dry sense of humor. He still made smart observations about politics and history. “Same old Derek,” Don concluded, after a few hours, and that fact surprised him. His grief had been so profound that he’d expected some physical manifestation of the loss. Instead, he found himself forgetting for several minutes at a time that Derek was now “living on the other side.”
I think Dons views are abhorrent. But the fact that he is a parent who adores his child comes through.
Ok, I’m an evangelical Christian (not a fundamentalist, and I believe in evolution, equal rights for LGBT people, and Hillary Clinton ;), but I did have some concerns about sending my son to Oberlin. I wasn’t worried about values. I was worried about him being miserable or marginalized. It’s not the most open-minded school when it comes to accepting the beliefs of Jews or conservative Christians, but it does have a strong enough intellectual rigor, and that is what made me feel it was okay to send him there.
So far, all I have seen are positive things. He is still a devout Christian, but is much less rigid (he has mild Asperger’s and inflexibility is a common trait) and much more loving, which is the whole point of the Gospel. So I would say that sending him to a left-wing school has only helped him become a better person.
People who have strong view of their politics, religion, race have to make a choice. They can go (send their children) to a college that might be run by their ‘people’ and have students who have the same views (Liberty, BYU, Yeshiva, Ave Maria) or they can go to another school and be exposed to other views, religions, races but perhaps that school has a certain program or major that they really want, is cheaper, is closer, etc. It’s not often you can have exactly what you want. Some communities are so unwilling to experience other views they don’t allow their children to attend with outsiders and either send them to religious schools or home school at a younger age, and just skip college all together. I don’t think what the Black family did is at all unusual. They didn’t feel the public school was right for their views or had the right educational level and they homeschooled. Many on College Confidential have done the same thing, either choosing to live in a school district they like, sending their kids to private school, or homeschooling.
If a Catholic wants their child to go to a Catholic university, there are many choices running from very religious to much more mixed in a student body. If LDS prefer a religious atmosphere there are several BYU campuses, and they are cheap. There really aren’t a lot of white supremacist schools out there. This guy already attended a community college in Florida without ‘turning’ him. New College had the program he wanted. If the New College student website hadn’t ‘outed’ him, he may have continued as he had started, still believing his supremacist views but being rather secretive about them, playing video games with other students, doing role play, playing cards. If he’d had a few pals that also shared his views, he may have been social with them and not accepted the invitation (and in fact the invitation might never had been issued). If he’d gone to a bigger school, even one that is more liberal than New College, it may not have been an issue as he could have stayed in the shadows.
People make extreme choices when their families don’t act as they expect. Romeo’s and Juliette’s families couldn’t accept each other. Tom Cruise has turned away from his child and his older children have rejected Nicole Kidman because of Scientology. How many gay people have been rejected by their families? This is a fairly new situation for the Black family, and some may never accept his new views, but others may come around. My own parents were a mixed marriage as mother was Catholic and father was (gasp) Episcopalian. It was his family that had the most trouble with it. After a number of years (and grandchildren) everyone came around.
This story was one of the most uplifting I have read in a long time.
What an amazing young man. What an amazing lesson about reaching out to include those who we have differences with and seeing each other as human beings.
When I think of the difference that was made by the one young man who invited Derek to Shabat dinner…I get goosebumps. One person made a huge difference in the life of Derek and in the lives of so many others.
Restores faith in our ability to interact as person to person.
Forgetting the whole White Supemicist issue, how odd was it that David Duke was both Derek’s godfather AND his mothers ex-husband? That’s an interesting dynamic to be sure.
My dad once told me that they (my parents) stopped just short of indoctrination. My views very rapidly began to shift the moment I was being regularly exposed to people who were different from me, so by the age of 12. Years before I stepped foot in a college classroom. I am thankful everyday for the 20 and 30 somethings who had the patience and willingness to challenge me to see the world a different way. College hasn’t liberalized me. However, my gen eds enhanced my understanding of the world and cultural differences. YMMV
Moving story. I see something universal and beautiful: deep love between father and son.
We each have about 100 years here on earth ever changing, sometimes slow and sometimes rapid. Our reactions differ but our love for the young remains constant and strong.
Yes I’d send my kids to the most mind challenging schools possibly and what comes out is up to them.
I don’t think the bulk of students at any of those schools would be white supremacists, although of course they would mostly be very conservative. He might have turned, but in a more religious direction.
One other note: nobody would be talking about the importance of diversity, etc., if the story was about a seemingly normal kid who went to college, joined a radical group, and then went off to join ISIS. People like the Black story because he rejected an obviously horrible ideology for an obviously better one. But the opposite can also happen, and it can also happen that neither ideology is obviously horrible or superior, but the one that is rejected is important to the kid’s family. That hurts.
Derek’s salvation – rescue from parochial thinking – came from the fact that the was both intelligent and intellectually curious. His interest in medieval European history drove him to learn about history and society. This is an impressive “knowledge is power” story.
I continue to be mystified by the erroneous connection between Christianity and white supremacy. The Christian church is strong worldwide–in fact, probably stronger outside the US due to the refining power of persecution in other countries like China and also due to the stark contrast with spiritism, such as in Africa. The apostle Paul stressed unity and made a point of saying that in the church there should be no racial, class, or gender distinctions (Gal. 3:28). Furthermore, the primary tenet of the religion is love. I have never met a Christian white supremacist, and don’t think there are more of them in the church than out. I am no fan of Liberty U, but I do know they welcome international students, some of whom are non-white.