Would you send your kid to a 2nd tier college?

Parents Forum
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<p>To make a long story short: D has some nice offers of merit aid at very good schools, and at one point I asked the question if I should try to force her to attend one of the top state flagships in the country vs going OOS for about 5k more per year if the OOS choice was her top pick. </p>

<p>Now we have a different dilemma. She was offered almost a full ride yesterday at a 2nd tier school. It meets a lot of her criteria, except in terms of academic rigor. I'm talking a school with an average SAT around 900 and a top quartile around 1000. </p>

<p>W thinks it would be a great choice in that we could offer our D at least tuition for two years of grad school, and college administrators who are friends have told us that where you get your UG doesn't matter at all if you are getting a masters, that it is the quality of that school that counts. </p>

<p>One of my worries would be that graduates of this school would have a hard time even getting in to a top tier MS/MA program. </p>

<p>Thoughts anyone</p>

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<p>Does the school have an honors program and is she admitted to it? I think that would make a difference. If the answers are yes to my questions, what are the stats for the kids in the honors program?</p>

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<p>It depends. What’s the school, what’s the course of study, and what are the alternatives?</p>

<p>I don’t think it’s uniformly true that your UG school doesn’t matter if you get a masters.</p>

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<p>I would not choose this school, based on only the information you have provided.</p>

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<p>Someone at the department of your D’s intended major should be able to field Qs about graduating students’ placement rates into masters programs. Get that info before you decide.</p>

<p>Sent from my DROID BIONIC using CC</p>

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<p>My daughter went to an unknown small private for undergrad and is now doing grad at a name brand school. There’s a lot more that goes into grad/law/medical school then where a student did their undergrad. When our kids were looking at colleges, we were more concerned with fit and affordability then that rankings stuff. See [Amazon.com:</a> Harvard Schmarvard: Getting Beyond the Ivy League to the College That Is Best for You (9780761536956): Jay Mathews: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Schmarvard-Getting-Beyond-College/dp/0761536957]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/Harvard-Schmarvard-Getting-Beyond-College/dp/0761536957) I had to read it for the title alone!</p>

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<p>FWIW…my thoughts…</p>

<p>I think ‘2nd tier’ schools (often state directionals) are best used for their intended purpose… </p>

<ul>
<li>Teacher education</li>
<li>Social Service education</li>
<li>Business programs that provide key employees in accounting, finance, HR, sales, IT, etc to LOCAL (and to a lesser extent statewide) employers</li>
<li>Engineering and science…see business above</li>
<li>Nursing</li>
</ul>

<p>Once you move outside this demographic, I think you are carrying more risk than you should.</p>

<p>Take for example Southern Illinois U - Edwardsville. Is it possible to go there as an undergrad and then go to a top grad school…of course. My FIL did just that. But that is not their strength. Their strength is producing quality teachers, business people, engineers, etc for the local and regional economy.</p>

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<p>In addition to the above comments, I think it really depends on how you define “second tier.” Those stats sound a lot lower than that. If she already has some significant merit money from what you consider to be much higher ranked school, I’d be tempted to go thataway. However, if she is certain she wants to do grad school and she wants to save the $ for that, the choice is reasonable. How many of the lower school’s grads go on the graduate school?</p>

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<p>Yes, I would. </p>

<p>Oh, wait, I did.</p>

<p>Even at middling schools, some programs will be excellent. </p>

<p>25% of the student body is in top quartile (I know, duh), but that can be a whole heck of a lot of students who, going in at least, appear to be intellectual peers. </p>

<p>You might also be surprised at who you discover mixed in that middle 50% - students who’ve had to work close to full time, even in high school, because their families are poor. My D says of one of her friends, “I don’t know how she does it, Mom.” This kid has been on her own, not even able to live at home, since before she graduated from high school. She works almost full time and take a full course load. No, her stats are never going to be as good as my D’s. How can they be? IMO, however, she may be a far superior student simply because of what she can overcome.</p>

<p>That middle 50% can also include kids who just now decided to get serious. DOn’t underestimate their intellect. </p>

<p>That middle 50% IS going to include some pretty marginal students, too. </p>

<p>So often, on this site, we worry about the intellectual challenge of a “lesser” school. Essentially, that’s bull. There are top students everywhere who can give our little angels a run for their intellectual money. THe professors at those second tier schools have PhDs and publications, too, and when they spot a talented student, opportunities arise. </p>

<p>Finally, finances. Tier two now means two years of grad school paid for? Oh, my, is that ever a gift. FOr us, tier two means just no undergraduate loans, to get that plus grad school would be worth it for us. </p>

<p>Obviously, your D liked this school enough to apply. I think it deserves serious consideration.</p>

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<p>First of all, what does your D think? I would not try to force D to go anywhere. </p>

<p>But to answer your question: D is a sophomore at Rhodes College. She chose Rhodes over several other much more selective LACs, and overall she and we (her parents) have been pleased with the choice. She does complain sometimes about the level of classroom discussion not being all that challenging, but she also will seek out her professors outside of class. She has not had any class with more than 25 students, so all of her professors have gotten to know her. She has had many intensive writing classes. For many classes, she is reading primary sources rather than a textbook.</p>

<p>You also do want to think about social fit. D has found “her people” but she still does not like the overall social atmosphere at her school. But that mostly has to do with the Greek scene, and ubiquitous consumption of alcohol, which sadly seems to be the atmosphere at many schools.</p>

<p>D will graduate without any debt at all, which gives her lots more choices for grad school or low-paying non-profit first job than she would have had were we paying $50,000 a year for her to attend a more selective school.</p>

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<p>Was this a safety she loved upon application?</p>

<p>And if so why did she love it? Revisit those reasons…</p>

<p>Is med school or law school in the future, possibly? Some phd STEM programs are well funded for fellowships, but not med school/law school, that’s all you and her. B school programs as well. So for med/law/B schools you could be looking at upwards 65K+ in tuition alone, PER YEAR.</p>

<p>Is it a full ride or full tuition? Full ride= tuition, fees, room, board, books, supplies, and maybe research, laptops, travel</p>

<p>How much will you actually be out-of-pocket(OOP), yes down to the change!? Draw up a list and compare the out-of-pocket, include reasonable travel and expenses. Apples to apples as the offers come in, keep a running tally. The actual scholie amount is irrelevant, it is your OOP that counts.</p>

<p>Once the money is all lined up, go and visit again. Then you have a real price tag associated with each school. Factor in some student loans in her name if necessary to put some skin in the game. You don’t HAVE to have her take a loan but be willing to see if she would be willing to do that for one school and not another.</p>

<p>Look at the specific programs she might be interested in, maybe more than 1 per school but some of the same ones at each school. Again apples to apples. Really let her stretch and discover each school. Give her the chance to re-examine each one with a clear figure in her head and yours.</p>

<p>Also go over again how she does not make the decision in a vacuum, rather she as other siblings to consider as well as the family’s financial health in addition to her educational needs. Time for her to put on big girl pants and make what is adult decisions with adult ramifications.</p>

<p>Looks to be UVA is your state flagship, is she in there yet? She has a decent scholie to Clemson, did they increase it or did she get another from somewhere else?</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>One more opinion, FWIW. I agree that from your limited info about the near-full-ride school that it does not sound second tier. I’d consider all of the schools my kids looked at second tier (many CTCL schools, some OOS publics that are<em>not</em> state flagships but have some very good individual departments). They are <em>way</em> above what you’re citing for SAT scores.</p>

<p>I also don’t think many parents pay for graduate school (or students for that matter). All of my siblings and I went to graduate school but were on Teaching Assistantships that paid tuition plus a small stipend. We’ve made it clear to our kids that we will pay for ug school, but they’re on their own if they decide to go to graduate school.</p>

<p>Yes–people can be very successful from many different ug backgrounds, including community college. I’d just recommend you remove paying for graduate school from your deliberations.</p>

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<p>I don’t think it is “bull” at all. Not when the lesser school is as described in the OP. Yes, bull when you are talking about Harvard v. Cornell! My son had boarding school classmates that transferred out of some decent universities after freshman year because the intellectual level was lacking. It CAN be hard to find “your tribe”.</p>

<p>I would not equate Rhodes with the school in the OP. Rhodes is an excellent school and I would never call it second tier. That’s why we need more info.</p>

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<p>This is true for Ph.D. programs for sure, but my impression is that it is not true for most M.A. programs–that is, most masters’ programs do not offer tuition stipends or TA positions. I would love to be wrong, though. And certainly it is not true of med school or law school, which can cost a small fortune.</p>

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<p>Just for comparison, the middle 50% SATs at Rhodes are about 1180-1370. I think a school with something more like 900-1000 will provide a notably different experience. Of course, it still depends on a lot of factors–such as whether there is a particular program, or maybe an honors track, that makes the school a better fit.</p>

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<p>OP, I would look into the program and try to guage how rigorous it is or how much respect it garners outside the school. I went 2 years to a community college (no choice), before transferring to the State flagship, but they were known to have a very rigorous 2 year engineering program and I was well-prepared when I transferred. I was accepted at the 6 schools I applied to for transfer, and graduated Summa Cum Laude. </p>

<p>OTOH, some of the students at the State school transferred from different CC’s where the material tended to be watered down. The school you are considering either has an adequately rigorous program or a watered down version, in which case you are better off elsewhere, IMHO.</p>

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<p>I would look carefully at the school’s common data set to see what the range of SAT scores in the top quartile is. How many students have scored above 600 in each area? 700? TV4caster, I believe you’ve posted that your d’s SAT score was 1430 M/CR, 2150 total. Her scores are considerably higher than even those in the top 25 percent. I would not feel comfortable sending my child to a school where she might be one of very few kids with that kind of academic profile. I personally wouldn’t consider the money for graduate school a worthwhile trade-off.</p>

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<p>1000 SAT score, that´s 500 for CR and math. What´s your kid´s score? If it´s a lot higher, how is she going to be challenged? Going to college is never free. It may not cost you anything financially, but it´s 4 years of your kid´s life. How often have we observed kids acting out in school because they were bored out of their mind? D2 is in the IB program, but had to take few required courses with students who are not as academic, and she said it is a waste of time. Teachers need to explain things over and over again, kids don´t always do their required reading or homework, forget about interesting discussion in class. </p>

<p>If my kid had SAT score way above 1000, I wouldn´t send my kid to OP school if they paid me.</p>

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<p>I agree with oldfort.</p>

<p>I have a young acquaintance who is at a school like that with a full ride. He complains a lot about his dorm mates being partiers, and loud and non-studious even when they aren’t partying. I asked a couple weeks ago if it was better this semester after the worst of the lot had perhaps not come back, but he said it was no better. I haven’t heard about his feelings about the academics.</p>

<p>In his case, though, the family is very low-income and it made a massive difference to finances. As far as your earlier question, we happily pay an extra $5K per year to get my son to the school he’s at now over another that offered more money. Our family income is about 80 - 100K, depending on the year.</p>

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<p>Without naming the school as well as other pertinent factors like her intended or possible majors, it may be hard to give suggestions relating to this particular school. Low-selectivity schools are not all alike in terms of what subjects are good or not; there is also significant variation in how “wide” or “narrow” the students are in terms of academic ability and motivation. A top student at a “wide” school (such as a state flagship in a small population state) may find her similarly motivated students, and courses aimed at such students (e.g. honors courses), more easily than a top student at a “narrow” school (such as a low-selectivity state university in a state with many state universities).</p>