<p>I'd totally go to Brown over Harvard. Better a school where kids are there for the sake of learning, rather than for the sake of getting ahead in the workplace. I'd rather skip the cutthroat competition and go where I can really get into my studies. But that's just me. :-)</p>
<p>For the Class of 2010 at Brown, 61% of the applicants were female, and 39% of the applicants were male. In order to reach something closer to parity, the admit rate was considerably higher for males than for females.</p>
<p>Interesting statement that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation about whether students choose Brown over Harvard or whether this is even a wise decision. Thank you for that Byerly...</p>
<p>You know, when the UChicago paper wrote that, "I'm proud to report there are more references to alcohol and fraternities in the viewbook of the University of Chicago then there is in the brochure of Brown University," in response to an unpopular, administration driven attempt to bring more students to the university, the fear was that this more "laid-back" image of UChicago would attract less intelligent students. On the contrary, applications increased 22 percent, the admit rate when to below 50%, applicants with SATs over 1400 increased 30 percent, and the number of students in the freshman class with SATs over 1500 rose 64%, while those in the top 5 percent of their high school class increased by 47%. Straight out of David Kirp's, "Shakespeare, Einstein, and the Bottom Line: The Marketing of Higher Education". Interesting, but useless to this conversation.</p>
<p>Taking UC170, modest?</p>
<p>20%...according to Byerly turn down Harvard for Brown.</p>
<p>Ive also met about 5 or 6 transfers from Harvard too in the past 2 months.</p>
<p>Yup, MG. You too, or looked up the reading list?</p>
<p>this might be helpful for the discussion since its based on actual experience: here are one student's reasons for preferring brown over harvard from an academic and intellectual standpoint.</p>
<p>Ryan Roark '05, who transferred from Brown to Harvard and back again, was one such student. Even though she "really liked Brown" when she first came and "knew it was a good fit," Roark said she transferred to Harvard for the first semester of her sophomore year largely because of the university's academic resources.</p>
<p>But in retrospect, Roark said her double transfer was "probably not the most well-reasoned thing." She knew there would be little difference in the quality of education offered by the two Ivy League institutions, she said, but the additional resources and library collection tipped the scales in Harvard's favor. Upon reaching Cambridge, however, she regretted her decision.</p>
<p>"As soon as I got there, I wanted to return," Roark said.</p>
<p>She said she had underestimated the value of the University's resources and the friendliness of the advisers and administrators she had met at Brown. Opportunities offered by Harvard on paper proved to be difficult to attain in practice, she said, especially as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>"I had to struggle in order to take a graduate-level French course," Roark said. Her advisers at Harvard could not understand why she wanted to take the class when they believed she should focus on her concentration, she said. </p>
<p>Roark, who earned an A.B. with a double concentration in mathematics and comparative literature and an Sc.B. in biology, said Harvard's one-concentration restriction was not appropriate for her. Roark is now a Marshall Scholar engaged in cancer research at Cambridge University, an opportunity she said "wouldn't have happened if I had stayed at Harvard."</p>
<p>... no... only 80% of overall admits choose Harvard over other choices they may have, but a far higher fraction of common admits choose Harvard over Brown.</p>
<p>Took it last year, modest. Loved the course, loved the prof!</p>
<p>Yeah, MG, it's probably the best course I've taken at Brown so far. Only 6 kids in the course this year! I can't believe that the "word" isn't out on this treasure.</p>
<p>Wow, there must be so much cider and cookies to go around, then!</p>
<p>When I went to Harvard SSP, the impression of Harvard students I got wasn't all that great. The dorm I stayed in had two proctors, and neither one of them makes me want to go to Harvard.</p>
<p>Girl proctor: A Harvard sophomore student who was in my Intellectual Property class. Through her casual comments, I could tell she was irritated by the fact that she was in a class with me – a girl four years younger than her. She was often late for lectures, and did not take the assignments seriously. It was no surprise that she received a failing grade on the midterm exam. At least it was no surprise to me anyway.</p>
<p>Guy proctor: Got the same grades on the midterm my roommate did in the class they had together. Got kicked out two weeks before SSP was over for underage drinking.</p>
<p>As you can see, the two Harvard undergrad I have the closest relationship with pretty much ruined Harvard's reputation for me. There will always be good and bad students at every college, regardless of the college’s prestige. I have always known that, but at the time, a part of me still wanted to attend the most prestigious college that would accept me. After the incident, I truly understood the value of a college is what I can make of it, not just its prestige alone. Brown may not be as well-known as Harvard, but I believe the education and opportunities Brown provides are just as good as that of Harvard, if not better.</p>
<p>I would choose Harvard over any college that is cheaper/has nicer people with the same quality of education of course.
Especially since my brother goes there and I want to avoid following in his footsteps in any way possible.</p>
<p>?? I am not sure what the point of this debate is, but any student who is fortunate to have a choice between 2 top-tier colleges should make up his/her mind based on the totality of what is best for them, whatever those parameters might be.</p>
<p>As someone noted, most people love the school they end up at, whether it was originally their first choice college or not. The experience of transfer students is not very useful, since all transfers have trouble adjusting at first. </p>
<p>Clearly, Brown people love Brown, and since my daughter goes to Harvard I know Harvard people love Harvard. I know students from both schools, and it really doesn't cut any ice with me to hear someone say they would go anywhere with 'nicer' people - I can't say I see the niceness index different between the two, and it comes across poorly.</p>
<p>Net - if you have the luxury of choice, choose the one you like better, but hurling brickbats at other schools really doesn't enhance any school's reputation. That's best kept for the football taunts - I've heard some pretty sophomoric ones at Ivy league games, but at least there it fits the mood and the occasion.....</p>
<p>I hope you realize that if you get into Brown ED, you can't apply to Harvard...</p>
<p>Yikes! My D is getting ready to click the ED/EA common app button, as are many others in the next 48 hours. I jumped on here to scan the Harvard/Brown comparison. Big points in the Brown column. Must go back to decision matrix and add category: Scariest Alumni.</p>
<p>A quick caution regarding how quirky Brown can be in admissions:<br>
My DD applied RD to Brown last year, and was waitlisted and eventually rejected. I bring this up because she was admitted to HYPSC (all RD, with the exception of Stanford, which was SCEA), and is now attending H.</p>
<p>i think the reason your DD didn't get into Brown has to do with RD. i think Brown/Dartmouth/Cornell/Penn College look really unfavourably upon RD, knowing that they are basically back-up schools to HYP. So they are looking very hard for the intrinsic interest in the schools themselves</p>
<p>I asked my daughter's counselor about this conundrum - how can one have a safety school if they all reject you knowing they are a safety? Her answer was in line with MSMDAD's daughter's experience - she said the top schools that know they are often used as safeties by HYPS students will do a 'strategic waitlist' of very strong candidates, and if those students call up to say they will definitely come if admitted, they will be admitted.... but if they don't, they aren't. I guess it all makes sense, from the college's point of view, since they worry about selectivity and yield, but it plays hell on students' nerves....(and paernts'!)</p>
<p>It is really a tossup, and not at all analyzable (if that's a word). My D was deferred, then rejected from Y, rejected from P, and accepted RD to Brown. Another girl in our HS was rejected from Y, accepted RD to H. A friend of my D was waitlisted at Sarah Lawrence, rejected from Vassar, and accepted at Harvard. I don't think anyone can predict anything at this point in time!</p>