Would you (visiting colleges question)?

Parent Cafe
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<p>We're about to embark on college visits for my junior son who is looking for a career either as a doctor or medical researcher. He has a 33 composite on his ACT (34 E, 33 M, 35 R, 30 S), has a 4.0 GPA (but has been homeschooled since 7th grade) and has A's in two cc classes (Microbio, for which there are only 4 A's in a class of 43, and Effective Speaking). AP tests aren't readily offered in our neck of the woods, but I'll be looking to see if we can get our local hs to order him Chem, Bio, and Stats. I give us a 50/50 chance since they don't offer them for their own students. If not, he'll do SAT II for Chem and Bio. Do they have one for Stats? I'm not thinking so.</p>

<p>This son only wants to look reasonably local (we're in South Central PA), but would also prefer small, non-cut throat, close knit, and fairly apolitical (at least in his dept). EVERY single doctor we've conversed with has told us to minimize debt to prepare for med school costs. We're not wealthy and already have one son in college plus one more two years behind this guy. Our EFC is roughly 9000.</p>

<p>So, our visit list includes:</p>

<p>Pitt (likely safety, but he's not fond of the size)
Case Western
University of Rochester
Franklin and Marshall (it doesn't look like they offer much in aid, but the fit could be really good)</p>

<p>I've suggested looking at Baylor and Alabama (due to finances) and Washington U in SL for fit, but he feels they are too far away.</p>

<p>Would you make the effort to visit them anyway hoping he's impressed or stick with those closer to home and hope for the best financial offers knowing we have a pretty good likely financial safety even if it's not the best fit?</p>

<p>Any other suggestions of places we might have overlooked? Christian schools are an option - in fact - he'd prefer them, but other than Baylor, I haven't seen any that really do research. Being a secular grad myself, I'm fine with secular.</p>

<p>Would you have him retake the ACT to bring up his science score since he's going into science? The 33 is his second time taking the test. His first composite was 30 with just his math score higher at a 34. Reading and science were much lower as he had gone into that test without prep and wasn't prepared for how fast he needed to be.</p>

<p>If he scores into NMSF range he'll take the SAT, but due to a clock/watch mishap he missed 3 questions on the math section already (didn't get to them) which likely dims his chances. We'll have an idea next month when results come back.</p>

<p>Right now, I'm mainly concerned about where to visit as I'm planning the family budget (NOT unlimited) and time. All visits are likely to start after the spring semester starts in Jan (through March as we can get away) to see places when students are there.</p>

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<p>Personally I would only visit the colleges he is most likely to attend, especially at this stage in the game.</p>

<p>If he eventually applies somewhere and is accepted with an unexpectedly good financial package, you could always make a last minute visit.</p>

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<p>If he takes the ACT again tell him to answer the questions on the Math and Science sections first that way he won’t run out of time in his strongest subjects. They don’t have to answer the sections in the order they are in the booklet. </p>

<p>With an EFC of $9K your son would be eligible for a lot of institutional aid so if it was me I wouldn’t limit based on finances. </p>

<p>I know you said fairly local but he should look into Vanderbilt. They give a lot of institutional aid.</p>

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<p>How about Carnegie-Mellon. They claim to offer much need-based aid and on a recent visit their they were boasting an 86% acceptance rate into med schools.</p>

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<p>I recommend starting with college visits closer to home. Try to visit a variety of schools to help him figure out what size and setting he wants. If he really doesn’t want to go far away, I would concentrate on finding schools within a few hours of home. If he is more open to the idea next fall, he can always apply to some distant schools and visit them if he gets accepted.</p>

<p>I think it would be worth having him retake the ACT. If he preps for the science section, he will probably raise that score.</p>

<p>You might want to visit JHU. It has great opportunities for reasearch and should be generous with need based aide. The cut-throat reputation is a sterotype and it sounds like he could hold his own there. </p>

<p>Have you visited Pitt? Don’t forget the CC mantra of “love thy safetly.” It’s not a good safety if he doesn’t like it.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>Juniata College gives very good aid. They have a very high acceptance rate into medical schools.</p>

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<p>Look at the College of Wooster in Wooster, Ohio, a couple hours from Pittsburgh. Great opportunities for research, strong pre-med, good financial aid. Founded by Presbyterians, though very diverse student body today.</p>

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<p>Is Muhlenberg a school he’d consider? He’d probably qualify for some nice merit aid there, and it’s nearby, smallish (I think 3K students?), not cutthtroat, and close-knit. Don’t know enough about it to speak to the political vibe there, though we weren’t hit over the head by any political viewpoint during two visits. We were hit over the head by the high quality of the facilities and the beauty of the campus. It has a Lutheran affiliation; we were assured by people on campus and friends who have attended that it’s an inclusive, non-pressuring atmosphere.</p>

<p>They also have a 4-4 Early Assurance program with Drexel Medical School.</p>

<p>If you go, see if your son can also do an interview while he’s there - that used to be a pre-req for merit aid. Muhlenberg likes to see student interest.</p>

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<p>Also look at Allegheny College in Meadville. They have much of what you are looking for and a very good med school acceptance rate. They will offer FA and merit scholarships.</p>

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<p>Actually…I think this should read “your son COULD be eligible for a lot of institutional aid”. The amount of institutional aid a student receives is based on the the amount of institutional money the schools have to AWARD. Not all schools will be able to meet the full need of a student with an EFC of $9000…most schools do NOT meet full need.</p>

<p>I agree that Mulhlenburg is a good choice to pursue. We know students who got about $10K a year in merit aid…but really that is not going to be sufficient to fill the gap between the EFC and cost of attendance.</p>

<p>Re: Pitt, once your son declares his major, he is going to be around folks in HIS major, not in the whole school. He will become friendly with like minded kids, everyone on the whole campus.</p>

<p>I would say…do not waste your time or money taking your child to a school that they are not interested in. If the kiddo doesn’t want to go, then don’t go. We had our two kids apply to a “parent choice” school each. They visitied both and were obliging…but really it was not a worthwhile expenditure or effort and if I had it to do again I would not have wasted the money on the visit or the application.</p>

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<p>[Honors</a> Tutorial College](<a href=“Honors at OHIO | Ohio University”>http://www.honors.ohio.edu/) at Ohio University. Good chance of full-ride and high-teacher to student interaction.</p>

<p>An example of the type of work students do at HTC:</p>

<p>[HTC</a> students participate in medical research at Ohio University’s Edison Biotechnology Institute](<a href=“http://www.ohio.edu/research/communications/biological_sciences.cfm]HTC”>http://www.ohio.edu/research/communications/biological_sciences.cfm)</p>

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<p>I would not bother with retaking the ACT. I don’t think colleges match majors and subtests, and the Science on the ACT really has nothing to do with Science – it’s more reading graphs and charts. My S got 34 on his ACT with a 36 on the Science Section and a 31 on the Math. English was 35 so Science was his highest, and he’s a Humanities Major (Classics.)</p>

<p>I don’t think anyone looked at subtest scores – really.</p>

<p>More that the SAT the ACT is usually viewed as a composite. At least that’s my experience.</p>

<p>And he can study and ACE the SAT II subject tests.</p>

<p>State colleges in the running? And try Davidson – really good scholarship, though of course there are no guarantees there. Although it’s secular leaning it does have a Christian affiliation and vibe. And it’s close.</p>

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<p>First of all, don’t retake the ACT. Science is a crap shoot anyways and his score is fine. </p>

<p>Second is the EFC of 9000 with 2 in college or one? Stick with me, he has a good ACT and a good GPA and I would talk about schools that will meet his need. They will be reaches but if he gets in it would be his best chance for them to meet your EFC. The problem with an EFC of 9000 and many merit based schools is that they won’t give you enough money to meet your need. They do give merit aid and are great choices for those with EFC’s of 50000 but with an EFC of 9000 you can look at other schools and wait for the aid packages.</p>

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<p>Thanks all.</p>

<p>The EFC was what we got for his brother attending college, so just one.</p>

<p>He visited all types of schools when his brother was looking and was told to be considering things for himself and allowed to explore (within reason). Based on that his ideal school would have small classes where everyone gets to know everyone and there’s nice professor involvement with students. He wants a lab, lab partners, friends, and academic challenge, but not academic competitiveness in a cut-throat sort of way. He really enjoys study groups whether they are about science or a book discussion. He’s not a party or greek type, but enjoys a good time actively (like hiking) or within the art realm (like drawing). With most of his alone free time he reads (everything from sci-fi to classics) or draws. He enjoys musicals and orchestras too. He’s not into sports at all, unless you count chess (which he plays competitively on our high school team). And he loves science. He’s not sure yet if he wants to major in a biological field or chemistry. He’s also not sure if he wants to pursue an MD or PhD, but feels strongly that it will be one or the other.</p>

<p>Big city schools didn’t impress him. He preferred those with their “own” campus. Rural was ok as long as they had activities other than parties. Suburban might be the best fit. That said, we’ve talked about how most schools affiliated with med schools tend to be in larger cities, so he’s willing to take another look. Large classes where kids didn’t pay attention due to talking or surfing the web REALLY turned him off. Injustice does too (thinking about life here, not classes). Other than that, very little ticks him off. He gets along well with all sorts of people and has fit in well with his cc classes. Both of his current profs came up to him offering to write LOR’s when he needs them. He now leads one of the major study groups for his microbio class. The other students don’t mind that he’s a junior in high school technically.</p>

<p>He surprised me when he admitted he wanted to stay close to home (his brother attends a school 12 hours away from us), but all I really want is the best fit for him. I appreciate all the suggestions both from here and those of you who sent a pm. Tomorrow he’ll spend a bit of time looking at them via the web to see if any make his “want to visit” list.</p>

<p>Thanks too for the smart suggestion just to visit places close to home for now. Those farther away certainly can wait until next fall IF he changes his mind, then IF he gets accepted. I wish I could say finances weren’t an issue, but the economy has given us quite the hit both with jobs and our savings. We haven’t cashed out of the “savings” yet hoping they recover at least a little bit. Time will tell. We’d have done better stuffing our mattress as an investment, but hindsight sure doesn’t help!</p>

<p>And we won’t worry about retaking the ACT. I know test scores are more important for homeschooled kids, so his science score there was my major concern.</p>

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<p>Dickinson offers good merit aid and is in your neck of the woods. D1 goes there and has good merit aid and an excellent GPA, which will position her very well for grad school should she choose to apply. D1 is not a science major, but D2(currently hs sophomore) is. D2 will have similar stats to your son’s. We will definitely be considering Dickinson for D2 as well.</p>

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<p>Maybe Hope College in Holland, MI? LAC but strong in sciences. Ranks highly for research opportunities. Small, non-cut thoat and apolitical. Christian school but comfortable for the non christian.</p>

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<p>From the numbers I have seen, Franklin and Marshall does offer a large amount of need based aid. Look at the numbers for each college on [College</a> Admissions - SAT - University & College Search Tool](<a href=“http://www.collegeboard.com%5DCollege”>http://www.collegeboard.com), which is valuable to look at easily comparable data among various colleges. There is more data on need and merit financial aid on each college’s “common data set”, which you can usually find on the web.</p>

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<p>My son was also homeschooled and looked at similar schools. He ended up at Case Western and absolutely loves it. When all the financial info came in, Case was substantially cheaper than Pitt and we are in state also. Although the area around Case is not the nicest (and that is an understatement!), the campus itself is very nice and it feels like a campus where as Pitt feels more city. Case offers lots of research opportunities and has many hospitals, including Cleveland Clinic, adjacent to the school. I am sure that Pitt also offers research with UPMC. Case seemed to give my son a lot more individualized attention than Pitt did and they continue to support him. When we toured the school, one of the professors mentioned that she had gone to a very cut-throat school for graduate school and how impressed she was that the students at Case were much more collaborating. My son has found that to be true, also. There is friendly rivalry that goes on, but the students really seem to support each other.</p>

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<p>Michigan is definitely farther away than his preference, but thanks for the suggestion.</p>

<p>Thanks a TON for that link for need based aid. We had never expected to need it, but I seriously doubt our economy will recover anytime soon. Being the eternal optimist, when it does recover, we expect to make nice donations to the 3 schools my boys are/will attend so they can continue to offer such assistance.</p>

<p>I’m glad your son loves Case and got a decent financial package. Right now, it’s probably #1 on my son’s list. It was when he showed it to me last time (U of R was #2, F & M was #3 and Pitt was his safety). On a “maybe” list he had Yale and Cornell. This is all without visiting anywhere (yet). I just wanted the list to start making plans for visits. Soon he’ll get the oodles of mail from the latest ACT to see if any others get added, plus I’ve given him the list from here (including pm’s) to research too. I’d love for him to have several choices to pick from and can sense taking a couple of road trips this winter if the finances cooperate.</p>

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<p>I would strongly urge you to look at Penn State Schreyer Honors College. I know that you will think that Penn State is too big. But Schreyer is a “school within a school” and fits your criteria of small, not cut-throat, close knit, and kids of all political persuasions, or none, are socially accepted in a non-judgemental way. At the same time, he could take advantage of all that Penn State has to offer. SHC has a 100% placement rate into medical school.</p>