Yes, and those of us who were actually interested in learning were teased mercilessly.
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No, the working assumption is that if kids donât want to learn, even excellent teachers canât force them to. What is wrong with having classes for kids who want to push themselves?
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I think it is a mistake to assume that all kids who do not sign up for 9th grade honors English do not want to push themselves. For that matter, I think that it is also a mistake to assume that all kids who sign up for 9th grade honors English do want to push themselves.
Kids with savvy, college educated parents make their kids to take these classes because they donât them to be be left behind in the college prep rat race. Thatâs how these end up being predominately high SES low URM enrollments. These schools are determined to provide a college prep education to everyone who isnât special needs.
From this thread it sounds like the kids who are interested are the ones doing the bullying. And maybe their parents too. Stories of kids forcing their classmates to stick to canned questions to move the course along are pretty amazing.
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Wow. Iâm stepping out nowâŠ
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One of the private schools that is very close to these two public schools has an interesting approach to Honors courses.
- As is the norm in the area, there are no Honors offerings for English in 9th or 10th grade.
- Starting in 11th grade the student can take the same English course either for Honors or regular. It is the same course in the same room, but in addition to the normal workload, extra and more sophisticated reading/writing is required as is student teaching select material with the help of the instructor. Honors is extra, but within the context of the existing class.
- (There are no AP options.)
The kids at this school are well prepared for college and do quite well in college admissions.
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Our experience moving around a lot is that there is so much variability in school districts, even with in the same state, let alone across the country. I would never assume to extrapolate what worked in one area would work in another.
I think itâs unfortunate that so many on this thread are discounting the experience of others.
Our personal experience was that our public school did a terrible job of meeting kids where they were. There was no flexibility in moving kids up/down a level. If you werenât identified as âgiftedâ and tested high enough in elementary school, you werenât getting into the accelerated classes in middle school, let alone in HS. In our area there was much more flexibility in the private schools because they were willing to retest and reevaluate students. The public schools in our current neighborhood are just now moving in that direction.
Behavior was a big issue in our public schools. Teachers spent much of their time dealing with that and not education. That wasnât an issue in my Dâs private high school because there was a zero tolerance policy for bad behavior and students were regularly expelled (Dâs class started out with 250 students freshman year and only 203 graduated 4 years later). Public schools donât typically have that ability.
IMO, the biggest issue facing public education today is poverty.
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Might I remind members of the forum rules: âOur forum is expected to be a friendly and welcoming place, and one in which members can post without their motives, intelligence, or other personal characteristics being questioned by others."
and
âCollege Confidential forums exist to discuss college admission and other topics of interest. It is not a place for contentious debate. If you find yourself repeating talking points, it might be time to step away and do something else⊠If a thread starts to get heated, it might be closed or heavily moderated.â
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Seems like they implemented most of the disadvantages of early tracking while not getting most of the advantages of early tracking that are found in some other countries that do so.
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If you have the formula for success please share it - it would benefit many.
One of the problems is simply discipline. Teachers in public schools are handicapped y not being able to remove disruptive students from their classes. So a few bad students basically impact an entire class.
Iâd like to think that upon reaching high school all kids should be able teach college prep level. Unfortunately thatâs not the case. There will always be kids that perform above grade and they need to supported as much as the kids that need remedial support.
So parents should/must do right for their kids. I did - unapologetic.
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Not sure what you mean. I donât see it as problematic that these two schools are taking the same approach as all the relevant private schools in the area, so I guess I feel like their solution has more merit than many here seem to believe. The approach seems much more sound than segregating the kids and taking an âhonorsâ vs. âzooâ approach.
Do you know enough about these schools to make such broad pronouncements about the ability of the 9th graders to handle a college prep English class?
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Only know what conditions were like in the school my kids went to.
Only cared about the schools my kids went to.
Both made it to their dream schools - Stanford and Johns Hopkins.
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Congratulations, but I am not sure how that provides much useful information on the potential of the students at these two particular high schools to handle a 9th grade English course geared toward college prep.
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I believe they were prepared by great teaching in a large public school that offered honors classes for the students that wanted and could handle advanced learning.
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Why is it so hard to accept that not all 9th graders are willing or able to learn advanced English? Isnt that the basis for the varsity teams as well-some are interested and want to try out and have the ability; many do not. My public school 40 years ago had way too many drug addicts in 9th grade to even consider placement in non-honors class. When kids are drunk or high by 8am, there isnt much teachers can do to teach.
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Still not following. Kids from SaMo High attend Harvard, Stanford, Yale, MIT, Princeton, Williams, Ardmore, Pomona, Duke and a host of other institutions. I donât know Culver City as well, but I imagine it is similar. I have a feeling that the matriculations to top schools wonât be impacted by this change, and it might help get a higher percentage of kids interested in college. Currently SaMo sends about 90% to college.
Why is it so hard to accept that 9th grade college prep English is not beyond the reach of kids who have successfully completed 8th grade English?
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Using that logic, why cant all kids who graduate from there attend Stanford? Some can. Why canât all playvarsity tennis if they finished middle school PE?
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Slow mode engaged
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A class teaches to the lowest common denominator.
Having Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg in a class with me would be great for me. I would get better. I would learn from them (and my teacher). But I would never approach their level of intellect.
Meanwhile, we might never see the likes of Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein and Ruth Bader Ginsburg. They were not challenged, their minds did not grow.
You canât be a world leader when you celebrate mediocracy.
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I donât follow? 9th grade English is not varsity tennis. 8th grade English is not middle school PE. For one thing, there isnât a limit on the number of spots on the 9th grade college prep English team. There is room for everyone to learn 9th grade English, especially if they have already successfully completed 8th grade English.
As for the Stanford comparison, you really lost me there.
If your kids are the next Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, or Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Iâm sure theyâll be able to get more out of the course than you imagine. And think of the the gift you are giving to the other kids by allowing them to be graced with your childâs presence. 
Iâve always known that CC parents think very highly of there own kidsâ abilities, and I am no different in that regard. But it is disappointing to see how little they think of the abilities of everyone else. We are talking 9th grade English here. Your kids will survive if they donât get their own special class insulated from the undesirables.
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What is the proposed solution for kids who have not âsuccessfully completed 8th grade Englishâ? (And what does that mean, a C-? D?) Should they repeat a grade and not go to high school? Should there be a remedial 9th grade English class? Is it OK if thatâs a âzooâ?