Yale and Princeton

<p>I understand that there are most likely many threads similar to this one, but I wanted to get some sort of personal feedback on my own situation. I recently visited both Yale and Princeton, and going into the experience, I had the hope that visiting both campuses would mark one or the other as the place for me. Unfortunately, as you might have guessed, I came out exactly where I started: undecided. There are aspects of both universities which I admire, and I am having trouble elevating one or the other as my top choice. As a bit of side note about myself, I am a rising senior from central North Carolina interested in studying International Relations with extensive coursework in economics and philosophy as well.</p>

<p>At Yale, I found the residential college system to be beyond comparison. The community that seems to thrive at the college as a result of the residential system is beyond reproach. The sense of belonging and happiness with which the residential system seemed to animate the students is somewhat beyond words, at least for me. The students at Yale seemed to be very approachable, and above all, content. The architecture of the campus was beautiful and I enjoyed the vibrancy which New Haven brought to the campus. I could definitely see myself studying at the Sterling Memorial Library, picking up a cup of coffee from the Blue State Coffee Shop, or perusing through primary source documents at the Beinecke Library. The idea of a "Shopping Period" for classes seemed to me to be very innovative and attractive as well as allowing for flexible course selection. I also found the idea of the Ethics, Politics, and Economics major to be quite interesting. The fact that the Yale Daily News would take the time and effort to prepare an issue especially for incoming freshmen also struck a positive chord with me. The sense of community and shared experience that I received from Yale speaks volumes about the student quality of life as well as the quality of the educational program at the university. The only negative points I feel obligated to make about Yale are that the areas of New Haven not directly surrounding the campus looked to be less than desirable, although I must stress that I did not see the entire city nor explore it in depth. Yale's campus also seemed to be somewhat spread out for my tastes, and the city did seem a bit intrusive at times. I also worry that Yale, although an institution of high caliber, is traditionally known for its strength in the humanities and classics and might not necessarily cater to students more oriented towards the social sciences, such as myself. In addition, I was slightly disappointed when the admissions counselor noted that Yale does not take into account home equity when calculating a student's financial aid package.</p>

<p>At Princeton, I felt that a sense of collegiate solidarity and quiet scholarship pervaded the campus. Indeed, if anything, I felt the campus was superior to Yale's because of its enclosure from the outside city, although it lacked some of the vibrancy of Yale's urban campus. The architecture was equally gorgeous, if more suburban in nature. I enjoyed the Frist Center, with its quirky quotes and sayings about Princeton as well as its inviting atmosphere. During the information session, I was taken aback when the admissions counselor noted that Nobel Prize winners often teach introductory courses in their disciplines, which I independently verified by looking through the past year's undergraduate bulletin. Following the information session, the admissions counselor also pointed out Albert Einstein's former classroom to my group, a detail which resounded with me as to the quality of the institution and struck me with a sense of identification with the university. Throughout the Orange Key tour, I noted the guide's repeated emphasis on Princeton's focus on undergraduate education, a quality which endeared me to the school. The satisfaction of current and former undergraduates with the education they received at Princeton was also quite apparent during the tour. To my knowledge, Princeton has the highest percentage of alumni contributions in the nation, a testament to the quality of a Princeton education. It was touching when the tour guide noted that the spouses of deceased alumni often walk during the annual P-rade in place of their husbands or wives. When my tour group was taken into to the University Chapel, I felt a sense of sublime awe. The interior of the building was literally one of the most spectacular pieces of architecture I have ever seen. On an academic note, the dynamism of the Woodrow Wilson School and the strength of the economics department were definite positives for me. I especially cherished the thought of policy seminars and task forces during my junior year, if accepted to the WWS. Overall, the atmosphere on campus seemed to be more relaxed, if less vibrant and lively, than that of Yale. The drawbacks of a Princeton education also concern me, however. Princeton's policy of grade deflation is somewhat concerning, if not a deal breaker. My tour guide stated that it is not too much of an issue, as it does not make for a competitive atmosphere and that if one works hard, it is not impossible to get an A. Nevertheless, I am not sure I do well with the thought of being graded on a Bell Curve. In comparison with Yale, I got the impression that the "residential colleges" are lacking. At Princeton, I got the sense that the colleges do not knit the student body together in as tight a community as those at Yale. Perhaps that lack of community is countered by the eating clubs, but I was not as impressed with the sense of community at Princeton as I was at Yale. In addition, excluding the area immediately surrounding the Princeton campus, the town seemed to be largely residential and not conducive to outside excursions. While Princeton certainly does not share many of the urban problems of New Haven, it also did not seem to possess many of the benefits which an urban environment brings to a college campus.</p>

<p>I enjoyed many of the idiosyncratic traditions of both universities and felt that either institution would be a wonderful place to spend four years of my life. Indeed, I could picture myself at both universities, and in truth, I feel I would be happy at either institution. However, only one would hold the promise of greater marginal happiness as well as a curriculum that best fits my needs, wants, and aspirations. It is not, perhaps, that I am uncomfortable with the idea that I was attracted both universities equally, but for practical reasons, I feel I do need a top choice. If anyone from Yale, Princeton, or otherwise could elaborate on some of the more subtle nuances of either university as well as which might be a better fit for me, I would greatly appreciate it. If it makes a difference, I am an only child whose parents would rather him stay closer to home than not. Thanks for the advice!</p>

<p>I’ll say it since it’s bound to be said sometime in this thread: chances are, the choice will be made for you come April 1st, 2011. Even greater is the chance that neither will be a choice available to you. But if by some stroke of divine luck you gain admission to both of these fine institutions, you can make the choice then. </p>

<p>Though I do suppose it’s nice to weigh to pros and cons of each school so it’s easier to write the “Why ___” essay.</p>

<p>^ The former paragraph of that post pretty much covered everything I had to say.</p>

<p>At the risk of sounding pretentious, great minds think alike. :)</p>

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<p>You really don’t need a top choice. If you’re torn, apply to Yale SCEA and Princeton RD – along with a balanced list of lesser reaches, match, and safety schools. You can sort it out next spring. Your thinking may change significantly between now and then.</p>

<p>I’d like to make an unrelated suggestion. You write well, but very long paragraphs are hard on the reader’s eyes. When you write your college essays, try to keep your paragraphs to 10-12 lines max.</p>

<p>I didn’t even read the post lol. I think the OP’s wall of text can be summarized into one succinct request: List some of the differences between these two schools.</p>

<p>At this point, you have understood the subtle differences of each school. They are evidently far more similar than they are different.</p>

<p>As it seems you have already identified the marginal nuances of the two schools, there isn’t much more you will learn about them, (at least involving information that would have the weight to sway your decision). Your decision will not be swayed through added information. In my opinion, you have hit that wall. You can always learn more about each school, but such would be superfluous. Now is the time to reflect, and only you can do this. However, I will try to help.</p>

<p>Based on your reported impressions of each institution:</p>

<p>Yale - “The community that seems to thrive”, “The sense of belonging and happiness” “might not necessarily cater to students more oriented towards the social sciences”</p>

<p>Princeton - “collegiate solidarity and quiet scholarship” “grade deflation” " I was not as impressed with the sense of community at Princeton as I was at Yale"</p>

<p>Does Princeton’s perceived “superiority” in the social sciences make up for Yale’s community? In my opinion, no. This is Yale, remember that. The difference between a Yale econ degree, and a Princeton econ degree, will make NO difference in the world outside of this online forum. However, Yale’s community will almost certainly pay dividends for the rest of your life, either because it will help you develop stronger connections, better friendships, and/or a higher GPA. I also feel that you have the right idea about Princeton’s grade deflation, and you don’t want it. Ivy league grade inflation is incredibly helpful, and you will benefit from it.</p>

<p>In my opinion, your impressions of Yale were monopolized by your overwhelming excitement of Yale’s community. You were also impressed with its vibrancy. This is perfect. On the other hand, your impressions of Princeton were based largely on architecture, historical significance, academic prowess, and a justified fear of grade inflation. You can easily argue that Yale has equal historical significance and academic prowess, yet Princeton cannot make up for its negative points, in your case. At this level, happiness trumps perceived academic superiority, and it will even boost your GPA.</p>

<p>I strongly recommend Yale. I would have similarly recommended Princeton if the impressions were reversed (Princeton being the oasis of bliss and happiness, while Yale bringing forth greater academic prowess but lacking on the happiness factor).</p>

<p>Though, I can’t stress how useless it is, to continue this analyses. While Yale is, in my opinion, the clear choice, I would nevertheless recommend postponing this discussion and/or reflection until you have been accepted to both schools. Your time could be much better spent, in my opinion. Good luck though. I hope you end up at Yale.</p>

<p>^says the guy who goes to Berkeley</p>

<p>^ How rude. I merely contributed my opinion and explained the reasoning behind it. Since I don’t go to either school, my opinion is objective, no? Is my opinion invalid because I attend <em>terrible</em> UC Berkeley?</p>

<p>caltanner: Many have stated that iCalculus is a ■■■■■. I have not had any sort of extended interaction with him (and thus don’t know if he’s really one), but I’ll leave you to draw your own conclusions.</p>

<p>if by ■■■■■, you mean “obnoxious,” then sure, I am a ■■■■■</p>

<p>There’s no need to choose now. You can’t lock in to either one early, even though you can learn of a possible Yale acceptance early. Like all have said, apply to both and then make your decision if you have one to make in April.</p>

<p>BTW - your description echoes D’s impressions. Keep in mind our visits were in the summer and I imagine the pulses of both campuses change considerably during the school year.</p>

<p>If you get into both there will be admitted student days which will make the choice a lot more clear for you.</p>

<p>Umm, about that happiness factor…Princeton was I think rated the 3rd happiest school in the nation recently, and it would seem obvious that Princeton wouldn’t have the world’s strongest endowment per alum had its alumni been largely unhappy there. Then again, I’m more inclined to agree with other posters in that you see where you get in and if both, you use the admitted students weekend to solidify your impressions. And of course just because data and rankings suggest that Princeton kids are happy doesn’t mean you shouldn’t use your own discretion (though I myself have far different impressions of each school from yours).</p>

<p>I had originally planned on going to Princeton, ever since Freshman year of high school, but after I visited both school I realized that Princeton students tend to be a little too sheltered from reality. If you’ve ever heard of the “Princeton bubble,” you’ll know what I mean. </p>

<p>If you’re looking for a <em>predominantly</em> middle to upper class, suburban atmosphere, Princeton is your place. If you want an environment that’s more socio-economically diverse (at least by Ivy standards), urban, and not so naively “hunky dory” Yale is it.</p>

<p>I’d actually advise you against trying to find a ‘top choice’ at this stage, and wait and see which institutions you are lucky enough to receive offers from. Otherwise, you could be in the strange position of being disappointed with a Yale or Princeton offer.</p>

<p>It’s often said that you fall in love with the university that loves you…</p>

<p>My son agonized over this choice at acceptance time last year. (We live in Princeton; he decided on Yale and loves it.) It seems to me you have summarized each campus very well and honestly. Be certain that you will have an amazing college experience whichever school you accept, if you end up with the wonderful calamity of having to choose between the two. Everything changes psychologically once you have your acceptances in hand, and by then, another school may have emerged at the top of your list or you may have decided on a completely different major that will tip the scales one way or another. I would also encourage you to visit those campuses again if you can during the coming year, and then again for Bulldog Days and Princeton Preview Days after acceptances. And if you still can’t decide by then, PM me!</p>

<p>While I think concern about department rankings for undergraduates is misguided (find a competent program and learn the field before thinking about this), I suggest you do some quick research on the relative strengths of the two schools in</p>

<p>Psychology
Sociology
Economics
Anthropology
History</p>

<p>I think you’ll see that these schools both have excellent and comparable, if not parallel, strength in the social sciences.</p>

<p>I did not understand why you were disappointed that Yale does not consider home equity in determining FA. This would mean that they will not be reducing your aid because some of your family wealth is tied up in an illiquid asset. If they were to factor it in, it would essentially mean they consider increased personal debt (i.e., a second mortgage) a reasonable way to pay for school. Unless I am misunderstanding you, I take that they don’t factor it in as a positive.</p>

<p>In the long run, if you are fortunate enough to be offered admission at both, I believe you will (and should) make your decision based on how comfortable you felt at each.</p>

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<p>I agree; OP needs to read up on what “not considering home equity” means.</p>

<p>If it means anything most people choose yale over pton. </p>

<p>I was going to go on a diatribe about people preparing for options that are likely never going to be offered to them but will sum it up quickly. Don’t. If you are seriously worrying about the difference between pton and yale social sciences I would recommend being very worried about your chances at either school. Make sure you don’t fall into the stereotypes and marketed perceptions of each (or any) institution. Albert Einstein worked at IAS, not princeton. IAS simply was started on princeton’s campus but has no affiliation. A couple of yale chem professors just won the nobel prize.</p>

<p>To be completely honest, you will know very little about what makes a school unique until you are accepted and they start courting you. Being courted to inflate applications and being courted to be a member of the community are two entirely different processes and feel entirely differently.</p>