I have seen numerous felony traffic stops with guns drawn and have been the subject of one myself. I’ve never been so happy as to see the barrels of two officers guns pointed in the direction of my and my kidnappers heads, as a knife was being held to my throat.
Me too.The last time I remember was outside a convenience store. No-one was shot but the guns were definitely drawn. And, entering bedrooms is pretty bad, imho. I don’t think this is a TV thing. Real cops do unholster their weapons when searching for or apprehending suspects. Jeez.
Trumbull College looks like a fortified castle. You have to cross multiple locked gates/doors to get into suites. The person who committed these crimes on a repeated basis has some nerve and is dangerous.
Sterling library does not have extensive entrance security. Anyone can get into the lobby, hide there or get out. There is a security clerk checking bags of patrons when they leave. The fact that YPD officer dealt with a person leaving the library did not prove anything regarding this person. The CC adding “library” to the link to this thread just serves sensationalist purpose.
Looks like there is still not enough information, such as:
- How was the suspect described to the officer (robbery, burglary, or theft suspect)?
- What is Yale PD’s normal procedure on the drawing of weapons, depending on the nature of the crime and suspect?
Regarding locked doors in the dorm, it is likely that they are frequently left propped open by students who are naive about crime due to growing up in very low crime areas (consider the large percentage of full-pay students at Yale). And they will probably let anyone follow them in. So a burglar would probably not find it difficult to enter without forcing entry.
Unfortunately, I have had this happen to me twice on a traffic stop. Police siren, pullover, police megaphone instructing me to turn off engine, and the roll down window while you place both your hands outside the driver’s window with your drivers license, and then approached by officer with a gun drawn.
Once it was for a large black male after a home invasion, another for a large Polynesian male on assualt charges from a local bar. Both times, I was incorrectly identified and it took about 30-40 minutes before they could release me, once cuffed, before it was identified I was not the suspect. No fun…
UCB: Given the limited number of YPD officers and that the officer in question had a description, it is pretty certain he knew exactly what this person was suspected of doing. Your second point is valid, however, and either way is a bit troubling. Do the YPD officers routinely draw their guns on possible suspects walking across campus (which would be frightening as to the likelihood of a mishap with a gun) or is it more likely in the case of a student of color? There was a recent case in NYC where an innocent man was killed in a stairwell by an officer whose gun went off unintentionally. NYPD is reviewing their policy on guns and stairwells to avoid future incidents.
Agree that it is likely not that hard to get into the dorm, either by a door left open or simply entering along with some other students.
Was Blow walking on campus at the time he was stopped, or on the street? If you are familiar with that area of Yale, you know that area is integrated with the city, so nonstudents are just as likely to be walking along the sidewalks as students.
There is still a question here. Whoever called 911 could have told the dispatcher the description of a “robber”, “burglar”, or “thief” (and students probably don’t make legal distinctions here), and how the dispatcher passed the information (whether or not corrected as to the type of crime suspected) along to the officers on the street can matter.
This was an investigation of a crime in progress. Numerous officers converged on Trumbull and Blow was confronted on Cross Campus. It was not one cop responding to one dispatcher and it was not a secret. The crime was felony burglary.
Well, for me it boils down to this: my heart freezes at the thought of my son, my only child, at the other end of a loaded gun. One finger twitch away from death. A backfire? A shout? A misinterpreted movement on his part?
And my son is white. If my son were black, I would be even more terrified. Because the reality simply cannot be denied.
If someone is going to point a gun at my child, they had better have a life-or-death reason.
UCB I thought this particular suspect was wanted for several crimes and the officer, reportedly, said into his radio “I got him”. Not sure that it matters, but I highly doubt this cop thought he was pursuing anyone but a kid wanted for burglary. I agree with Consolation, an officer should have a good reason for pointing a gun at a suspect. In fact, this kid was only a possible suspect, at the point at which the officer saw him walking on campus. I don’t believe someone is a suspect until there is at least some evidence, beyond a vague description, that he may be involved. .
And maybe he had good reason @mom2and. We really do not know.
apparently “vague description” means “exactly matching some key specifics with nothing immediately apparent that rules him out”
I’m concerned with the number of people who are okay with this.
I can’t find anywhere online a detailed description of the burglary suspect. If “key specifics” are “black with a red and white cap, a hoodie and jeans,” those are not distinguishing enough to pull a gun on someone. Detain them, perhaps. There are hundreds of sports teams that have hats with red and white on them, not to mention the thousands of fashion hats with those colors. And most college students wear some permutation of hoodie and jeans on a normal day on campus.
We also have no evidence to conclude that the burglar in this case was a “dangerous criminal.” I went to another urban Ivy League school where a ring of thieves orchestrated several thefts in the residence halls. They didn’t have weapons, nor were they particularly dangerous in terms of bodily harm. They simply loitered outside of the residence halls until someone came in or went out. The unsuspecting students who were supposed to be there would hold the door open for them, and so many students leave their doors unlocked inside the building that it was pretty easy for them to steal laptops. (Laptop theft was quite common on campus for this reason.) Terrible crimes, but they don’t deserve to die for them.
What makes burglary a felony instead of a misdemeanor is not force or even the amount of the theft, but the “breaking and entering” of a building without consent with the intent to steal something. If a non-student entered Yale’s residence halls without permission (even through following other students into the building) and stole toilet paper, or a pair of gloves, that could be felony burglary - because you don’t actually have to “break” anything to get felony burglary. Entering an unlocked door without consent is enough.
None of this is to say that the police officer shouldn’t have detained Blow’s son - if he fit the description, even a vague description, there’s nothing wrong with him stopping him. That’s trying to protect the community, and Blow says as much in his article. His reason for anger was because the police officer pulled a gun on his son, with no reason to believe that either his son or the criminal was dangerous. Blow made racial implications, but I think any parent would/should be uneasy with their child being on the other end of a police officer’s gun, regardless of race.
Even if the police officer had caught the burglar in the commission of the crime, I still wouldn’t be okay with him pulling a gun on him. Guns kill people, sometimes on accident, and people don’t deserve to die for stealing laptops. Not only that, but you’re on a college campus - who else might you kill by accident? Guns are for situations in which the police officer or others are in danger of bodily harm.
I’m not saying that this was a racially motivated incident. (In fact, I don’t think it was, and I don’t think that’s why Charles Blow was angry.)
But Blow discusses [url=<a href=“http://www.mediaite.com/tv/charles-blow-that-my-sons-arresting-officer-was-black-doesnt-change-the-problem/%5Dhere%5B/url”>http://www.mediaite.com/tv/charles-blow-that-my-sons-arresting-officer-was-black-doesnt-change-the-problem/]here[/url] why, in the hypothetical that it was partially racially motivated, it doesn’t matter that the police officer in question was a black man. The reason why, simply, is because race and racism is a lot more complicated than ‘a white person did something bad to a person of color.’ There is such a thing as institutionalized racism, in which negative stereotypes and systemic oppression work together to disadvantage people of color. The pervasive stereotype is that black people, especially young black men, are criminals/are more likely to be criminals, and are potentially more likely to be dangerous or carrying a weapon. It is very possible for people of color to be instruments of institutionalized racism, without intending to or even being aware of it.
Here’s an example: I’m a black woman. I went to Columbia, and was always very conscious of occasionally feeling like I didn’t belong there. I also do research on these issues. One day, I was walking across campus when I aw a young black man in a hoodie run across campus perpendicular to my direction. I suddenly started to feel a bit nervous, and I caught myself wondering what he was doing there, why he was on campus, and why he was running - was he running from a crime? Then I caught myself! I’m black, obviously I wasn’t being consciously racist against myself, but pervasive racial stereotypes and institutionalized racism affect everyone.
There’s a difference between saying that someone was being intentionally racist and saying that a situation or incident had elements of institutionalized racism or racial influences to it.
In this case the suspect was black so all the explaining in the world is probably not going to convince anyone that the cops shouldn’t have been looking for a suspect that fit the description of the suspect in this case. The gun is another question, however.
The gun is the only question. Of course they should have been looking for a black man if the description was of a black suspect. And nobody is questioning that they should have stopped and questioned Mr. Blow if he fit the description. The issue raised by Blow the dad and others is why was a gun drawn in this instance. The unspoken question, at least in some minds, was whether IF the description was of a white boy in a hoodie with a red hat, an officer would have been as quick to pull a gun on a white boy fitting the description. If the YPD is indeed that quick to pull a gun, then perhaps that needs to be re-thought.
I also doubt that the YPD is as well trained or experienced as the New Haven police. Even though in a city, Yale certainly has less crime and very little violent crime, especially in comparison to the wider New Haven area.
173 I have been saying exactly this. You should sign up as a guest and post at Yale Daily News. After reading student comments on the matter there I was shocked at the level of ignorance about what racism is and does. Thank you for stating the difference between intentional racism and situational racism.
I have rarely read as much nonsense as I have read on this thread. I’m amazed to hear that anybody thinks it’s appropriate to draw a loaded gun on a person emerging from a college library, even if the person matches a description of a burglary suspect. I can’t believe that it’s police policy anywhere in the land for a weapon to be drawn in such a situation. It seems to me that people are so eager to discount the possibility that race had anything to do with this that they are making palpably absurd arguments.
And those of you who are familiar with Yale should be particularly ashamed. This happened on Cross Campus, an area where there are lots of students all the time. What if my daughter had been standing behind the “suspect,” and the gun had accidentally gone off–like it did in the recent New York case? Would I have to shrug it off?
As for anybody who thinks the police would have drawn a gun if the description had been “tall white male wearing dark clothing and a red and white hat”…well, I have a bridge in Selma, Alabama that I’d like to sell you.
Indeed, if it had been a white student, and this same black cop had drawn his gun on him, I have little doubt that we’d be hearing a different tune.
@hunt ^ Amazingly well articulated.
Thank you @Hunt!!