<p>What a dilemma. How about taking a sheet of paper and listing specific pros and cons on it for each school/scenario? This is the way we handle situations like this.
Look at the situation very directly.</p>
<p>Just out of curiosity, I did a simple google search and came up with a list of assignments for Yale students to instructors for a semester, seemingly 2008, and did some counting. So, that semester there were 3 double bass students, none of whom took lessons for credit (one took an hour lesson, and two were listed as 541 - a course? - anyway, one studied with Alejo and the other with Aldridge, the third was TBA. On piano, a whopping 92 students took lessons, of whom 21 took lessons for credit. The students who did so for credit all studied with adjunct faculty: half with Yang and half with Parisot. On voice, another whopping number of students, 85, took lessons. Of those who took for credit, their teachers were: Lombardozzi, Ceno, Matamoros, Jubiak, Borichevsky, Nims, Chookakasian, Plank, Vote. Chookasian is on the faculty.<br>
This shows, to the extent one can extrapolate from one recent semester at Yale, that there are a LOT of Yale students involved in music and taking lessons, that on piano, those who are taking it for credit study with 2 of the faculty (not the heavy hitters, like Claude Frank or Peter Frankl), who each have about 10 undergrads in their studios (and presumably some grad students too?) and there are not too many double bass players to compete with…
At Juilliard, I think all the faculty are adjuncts. But at Yale it is a mix. So it is not necessarily significant - as Hunt says below.</p>
<p>It’s not necessarily significant that somebody is adjunct rather than tenure-track faculty–in fact, the Director of Undergraduate Studies for the music department is an adjunct.</p>
<p>It’s definitely true that a good bass player will have lots of opportunities to play at Yale–probably more than he can even do.</p>
<p>I was thinking there’s no age limit on going to college for an undergraduate degree - but being a musician is more like an athlete - if he wants to be a professional - he probably wants to keep in shape and work intensely at his craft right now and see if he can make it. Since he didn’t apply for the double degree option that might solve this dilemma then I say go for Juilliard if you can swing the funding. He’s already had some undergrad college work so he’s not ‘uneducated’ and he could apply again to college later if conservatory doesn’t work out. And if Yale doesn’t want him again down the line, plenty of other great colleges out there that will.</p>
<p>Columbia General Studies (and Columbia is up the road from Juilliard) is a strong option for someone who decides to go back to college after an arts degree or career. <a href=“http://www.gs.columbia.edu/[/url]”>http://www.gs.columbia.edu/</a></p>
<p>kmccrindle - thanks! I’m glad you’re an adult - we can’t afford to educate any more kids!</p>
<p>I want to add a few thoughts to the OP: </p>
<p>It is really best if this can be a decision that everyone agrees upon. That might be unrealistic. But if, for example, you and your S override your H’s concerns, that will cause friction every time he pays a bill. If you and your H override your S’s desires, that will cause resentment of what might have been. And so on. Don’t make it a democratic vote. If at all possible, reach a total agreement.</p>
<p>If you decide to allow your S to pursue the more expensive option, have a discussion ahead of time about what that will mean for the family, and what your expectations of him are. When my oldest was applying for colleges (eons ago), his dream school was UPenn. He had several great options that were significantly cheaper. (UGA would have cost us about a thousand per year, and GA Tech just a bit more.) My H created a spread sheet, showing S what it would take to reach his dream. S agreed to the work-study, agreed to economize during college, and agreed to certain standards of behavior (we didn’t expect drinking to be a problem, but we were concerned about his tendency to get over involved in things, for example.) A couple of times when we sensed this was happening, we pointed out to S that UGA did indeed offer these extra-curriculars… S also agreed to take on a fair amount of the debt necessary. We also agreed to limit our expenses to 4 years (so he better not fool around), and that grad school would be his own nickel.</p>
<p>It wasn’t an easy decision for us at all, but it helped that we all had a chance to air our concerns and expectations ahead of time.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the many excellent suggestions, perspectives, good wishes and shared experiences. We are taking them all to heart. I wish all of you and your families the best.</p>
<p>I know that Yale will allow an admitted student to delay matriculation for a year. I’m not sure how the process works, but I would assume that you would need to explain your reason for the request to delay.
Could this be a possibility for your son (and for you, financially)? </p>
<p>This would allow him to pursue his dream - at least for a year - without closing the Yale door quite yet.</p>
<p>I believe there is a Freshman violinist at Yale this year who attended Juilliard for the 2008-2009 school year, and very possibly used the option to delay Yale matriculation.</p>
<p>Just another possibility to consider!</p>
<p>Yale has such a great music school and lots of excellent performers - Your son sounds like a really good student, so I think that he should really consider going to Yale because he’d get the best of both worlds there (excellent performers and performing options, as well as stellar academics). At Juilliard there would be no academic opportunities, and he might get a bit frustrated with the lack of intellectual energy there. </p>
<p>As an example, I have a friend who just graduated from Yale a few years ago with a degree in biology, having also been admitted to Juilliard. He graduated this year with an MM in violin and is heading to Curtis next year for their grad program in conducting. This student is just an example of all that Yale can teach its students.</p>
<p>How does one go about asking for a deferal and an authorization to study elswhere meanwhile ?
Is it possible to do it the other way around, going to conservatory, taking one class in one particular field a semester (like one would do in college in its major subject), then additional classes during the summer and go to grad school in the same particular field first mentioned?
How did your friend manage to balance coursload and practise ? Did he spend all free time/summertime practising ? Was he already at a higher level than a normal Juilliard entering freshman when he started at Yale ?</p>
<p>Thanks !</p>
<p>Just wanted to share this :
"I graduated from Yale University School of Music in 1999 with a Certificate Degree. This has ALWAYS required an explanation so what a Certificate Degree is are Masters Degree CREDITS that will transfer into a Masters Degree upon completion of my Bachelors Degree which I am currently finishing up this year at the Juilliard School…</p>
<p>… After being at both Yale and Juilliard I would definitely recommend going to a university. The benefits of being in an educationally rich environment where there are so many different activities and interests going on are enormous. One has to remember that the real world is not made up of solely musicians, but a conglomeration of people from ALL walks of life and the more you learn from them the more you grow as a person."</p>
<p>From : [Interview</a> - Patrick Jee](<a href=“http://www.webconcerthall.com/interview/jee.htm]Interview”>http://www.webconcerthall.com/interview/jee.htm)</p>
<p>I’d never heard of the “certificate degree” so I looked it up. </p>
<p>[Yale</a> School of Music : Academics](<a href=“http://music.yale.edu/academics/certificate.html]Yale”>http://music.yale.edu/academics/certificate.html)</p>
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<p>I’m scratching my head a bit over this. It sounds like he did a three-year program prior to starting a regular bachelor’s program, with hopes that the three-year program will convert to a masters when he’s done. And it sounds like that program was pretty music intensive, with only one non-music course per semester, which is similar to Juilliard’s undergrad. It’s an interesting concept, but I’m not sure I understand the point. Why not just get a BM from a conservatory, then an MM? That would only take 6 years instead of 7. In fact, some schools like Juilliard have a 5 year program that will give you BM and MM together. </p>
<p>Don’t mean to start a Juilliard debate here (I believe there are threads about that already 
), but I think it’s interesting that he doesn’t consider NYC an educationally rich environment. True, the availability of higher math at Juilliard is nill. So academically, your choices are limited unless you cross-register at Columbia. Not all education takes place in a classroom, which he must know, since he only took one non-music course per semester at Yale, and the opportunities in NYC are myriad. </p>
<p>As for the OP, Yale and Juilliard are such different types of programs. It’s not like you are having to choose between two conservatories or two universities. It’s apples and oranges. I sent two children to univerisities (one to an ivy), and one to a conservatory. All of them are musical and intelligent. Each of them would NOT have been happy in the other’s place.</p>
<p>The undergrad certificate program or undergrad performance diploma typically is a two or three year music intensive preprofessional level alternative to high level music performance study that does not culminate in a BM. Admittance is usually solely on the strength of the audition, but there can be some minimal academic requirements, including basic language and math skills. It can also be a bit easier for foreign students as the TOEFL requirements can be less stringent than for BM degree pursuit. There are minimal academics within a performance ug certificate, and these are usually within the music academic disciplines.</p>
<p>Not to be confused with a grad certificate, grad professional diploma, or artist’s diploma, many of the major music programs have this option available. There have been a few previous threads explaining some of these alternatives.</p>
<p>Yeah, I think I did know that. Just reading too early in the morning. It was the use of the word “degree” that threw me, coupled with the concept that he preferred Yale because of the educational opportunities. In the actual article, he says something like Yale was the only one to offer this, so I thought it was something unique.</p>
<p>Sorry for the rabbit trail. := := :=</p>
<p>If you want to find out about the procedures to postpone matriculation for a year it would be best to call the admissions office. I only found one line on the website which mentioned this option, and there were no links.<br>
Do a search for “postpone matriculation” on the Yale website, and my source will be the top link in the results. I used the quotation marks in my search to make sure I found the exact words. All the contact info for the admissions office will be on that page also.</p>
<p>My son loves Yale, but he definitely has difficulty finding time to practice!</p>