<p>posterX,</p>
<p>MIT/Amherst? Both have placement rates (%) in the 70s. </p>
<p>I've seen data that <em>indicates</em> JHU is better than Yale. Kids are making important decisions here and the last thing they want to is false claim.</p>
<p>Regarding overall placement rates into any medical school, those figures are vulnerable to manipulation by colleges & universities, who can decide who "counts" in the total figure. Some colleges claim to have a "100%" placement rate, which is clearly baloney. Placement rates into the very top medical programs (like Harvard Med, JHU Med, Yale Med, UCSF Med) are not as vulnerable, because it is clear who is applying and getting in, relative to the total number of applicants to med school from the entire university.</p>
<p>"Virtually all Yalies get into their top choice medical school."
"In terms of success rates at getting into the top five medical schools, the schools with the best placement rates ... are Caltech, Yale, MIT, and Amherst, followed by Harvard, Swarthmore and Johns Hopkins."</p>
<p>Oh my goodness, those statistics are a bunch of baloney. Most Yalies couldn't get into Harvard College, let alone Harvard Medical School!</p>
<p>gives you an idea of the magnitude of difference here (these stats are a little different from mine because they are based on different schools, not just the top med schools, and not adjusted by the number of applicants -- e.g., Harvard is the highest on the list specifically because a larger fraction of its alumni decide to go to grad schools instead of working in the "real world" -- but it still gives you an idea). </p>
<p>Yale feeds 18.0% of its alumni directly into the top programs; Northwestern feeds just 3.7%. And that's not because that many fewer Northwestern grads go directly to grad school. </p>
<p>If you consider that at both schools, probably only about 30% of alumni apply to these grad schools in the first place, the 18% means that more than half of Yalies are getting into the top 3 or 4 programs, versus just 10% of Northwestern alums.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Most Yalies couldn't get into Harvard College, let alone Harvard Medical School!
[/quote]
His claim was referring to which undergraduate schools place students into top medical schools. Obviously, Yale does not send many students to MIT, CalTech, or Amherst Medical Schools -- or, at least, this should have been obvious.</p>
<p>
[quote]
more than half of Yalies are getting into the top 3 or 4 programs, versus just 10% of Northwestern alums.
[/quote]
The five programs selected for medical school are preposterous choices, but we'll let it stand because they're clearly 5 of the top 15 and may be a useful proxy anyway.</p>
<p>The question is not, in any case, which school sends more kids to any given school. The question is which school gives any particular student a better chance. I remain unconvinced that this question is resolved -- and, in fact, that it's resolvable at all.</p>
<p>What we do know is that the student loves Yale, and that Yale is not obviously inferior. That's reason enough to go there.</p>
<p>I agree BDM. choe_gina obviously really likes Yale and if he/she is willing to really work hard at Yale, then that would be a better choice because its a better fit.</p>
<p>Oh wow. I leave this thread for a second and it explodes. Most Yalies couldn't get into Harvard College no less Harvard Medical School??? Most Yalies I know here at Yale actually chose Yale over comparable options, including Harvard. I applied ED to the school so I have no way to know whether I would have gotten into Harvard or not, and guess what? I don't care. I did, however, get into Harvard Medical School as did many of my friends. In fact, out of 166 kids in the HMS entering class, more than 20 of them every year are Yalies. That's almost 15% of the school. The same is the case with Yalies at Hopkins, Penn, etc. Bear in mind these are the kids who got in and chose to go, not to mention the many kids who got in but decided to go elsewhere. Out of a class of 100, YaleMed has 18 kids from Yale undergrad. That's 1/5 of the class! Considering that only 200 or so people from Yale apply to medical schools during a given year, 80 at top 5 medical programs is extraordinary. Please don't tell me Yalies don't do well. That said, equally ridiculous is saying that every Yalie gets his top choice medical school. No school gets 100% of their kids into their top choice school. A truer statement is that every Yalie I know is very happy with their medical school choices. Yalies are very happy with where they end up and a good portion end up in very top programs (top 5 or 10). Most importantly, I love Yale and everyone I know does as well. I wouldn't trade my Yale experience for anything else in a million years.</p>
<p>Zipper-</p>
<p>I would (and my sister did) choose Yale over Harvard in a heartbeat. But that still doesn't change the fact that most H-Y cross admits choose harvard (it's a 65% v 35% margin). The point is however, that if OP knows she wants to do medicine, her best option is to take the HPME program.</p>
<p>posterX,</p>
<p>Just so you know, the WSJ ranking was choosing Yale Med school, instead of WashU, as one of the top-5 med school for no good reason. It also pick Dartmouth, instead of Kellogg, as one of its top-5 business school. Both of these choices favor Yalies. Had they picked WashU and Kellogg, the number for Yale would definitely be lower.</p>
<p>That's not necessarily true at all. For all you know, Yale might be the most represented undergrad program at Kellogg on a per capita basis (I wouldn't be surprised). If you think it isn't, then I invite you to prove your point and contradict the Wall Street Journal, the world's most respected news source, by listing the makeup of every top 10 program by alumni affiliation here. In any case, all the available facts show that Yale is one of the best, if not the best, school if you want to get into any top grad program, while Northwestern isn't even close.</p>
<p>Truazn, </p>
<p>I understand what you're saying. I was merely trying to make the point that it's ridiculous to say that all Yalies must have been rejected by Harvard in undergrad and grad admissions. I understand that most H-Y cross admits make the big mistake of choosing that other school in Cambridge. I also disagree, however, with the assumption that the HPME would be a better program if the OP wants to do medicine. See my previous posts on the benefit of choice in the medical school admissions process. Feinberg is an excellent choice but it is not the only one.</p>
<p>Remember Zippership that the vast majority of Yale students were not "cross admits" because they never applied to Harvard in the first place. So the 65/35 "split" is pretty meaningless.</p>
<p>Poster X are you telling me that the vast majority of students at Yale didn't apply to Harvard? You're kidding me right? Harvard-Yale/Stanford has the largest Ivy-Cross admit pool----- and I hate harvard, but most still go to harvard.</p>
<p>"I understand what you're saying. I was merely trying to make the point that it's ridiculous to say that all Yalies must have been rejected by Harvard in undergrad and grad admissions."</p>
<p>I didn't say that, and of course I agree that it's ridiculous to suggest that all Yale students were rejected by Harvard College and/or HMS. Having said that, it is equally ridiculous (as "posterX" claimed) to state that Yale is objectively the best school is the country for premed students -- completely bogus.</p>
<p>"Remember Zippership that the vast majority of Yale students were not "cross admits" because they never applied to Harvard in the first place."</p>
<p>I agree that the majority of Yale students weren't "cross-admits" to Harvard, but unfortunately the reason is not that they never applied to Harvard in the first place. And I suspect you know it too. Not intending to insult Yale students (really), but it pains me to read "posterX"s silly claims without replying.</p>
<p>Yes, that is correct. The vast majority of students there did not apply there.</p>
<p>Kingduke, there is no objective "best", because that depends on each invididual student and where they will thrive (you should visit each prospective school for 2-3 days, and talk with as many students and professors as possible, to figure that out for yourself), but on a macro scale, all the objective data out there shows that Yale has more success at getting its premed students into the top programs than anyone else.</p>
<p>I'm sorry but Harvard has the most success with its premeds and other preprofessional students to get in the top grad programs. The WSJ, "the world's most respected news source", itself said so.</p>
<p>For the record, the WSJ study is about 10 years old now. As soon as I can find the link that that page comes from (at the top, it says to see "Behind the Rankings," but they come off of another website), I'll post it.</p>
<p>i dont think there should be any debate that, if the consideration was between Northwestern and Yale undergrad, Yale would be the better choice. There should also be very little debate regarding which school does better for medical school admission. </p>
<p>The fact that it is HPME warrants an argument. Yale v. Northwestern in general? No way.</p>
<p>I haven't read the other posts but here are my two cents:</p>
<p>1) If you are HYPER ambitious, want to work hard and play ball with the smartest kids in the country, are interested in being very high up in medicine (i.e. Presidential cabinet, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, etc) and are looking to potentially go to a top 10 med school go to Yale. This does mean you'll have less fun in college but Yale places with the best of them. Harvard or JHU med school comes after some hard work.</p>
<p>2) If you are pretty ambitious, work hard but want to also enjoy college, and want to be a top doctor go to Northwestern HPME. Northwestern is an amazingly good med school and getting to go here while not really having to stress in college (getting a 3.1 vs a 3.9 is a HUGE difference) is a huge boost. I wouldn't pay attention to the 7yr vs. 8 yr path, in fact I would recommend taking the extra year to stay on campus, do some research or get a 1-yr MA, and enjoy life. </p>
<p>Your choice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
That's not necessarily true at all. For all you know, Yale might be the most represented undergrad program at Kellogg on a per capita basis (I wouldn't be surprised). If you think it isn't, then I invite you to prove your point and contradict the Wall Street Journal, the world's most respected news source, by listing the makeup of every top 10 program by alumni affiliation here. In any case, all the available facts show that Yale is one of the best, if not the best, school if you want to get into any top grad program, while Northwestern isn't even close.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>posterX,</p>
<p>It's extremely likely there are more Yalies at Yale med school than WashU med school. So if WSJ picks WashU instead of Yale med school as one of their top-5 programs (as they should cos Yale med school just isn't as good), then that % you were talking about should go down. I thought that's just simple math. Since WSJ didn't include Kellogg but picked Dartmouth instead as one of the top-5 programs, what I said about Kellogg neither prove nor contradict the WSJ. Browsing through your posts, you seem to have a habit of making bogus claims. Sometime you just don't seem to make any sense. By the way, how is this thread got anything to do with NU's prof school placement? Did you actually go to Yale?</p>