Yale or Northwestern 7yr Med Program?

Colleges and Universities A-Z Yale University
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<p>Yale or Northwestern 7yr Med Program? </p>

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<p>I am so confused as to which school to choose. </p>

<p>Yale has been my dream school since I ever knew there was something called college, and it will be an awesome undergard experience. But on the other hand, I will be risking becoming a doctor, ever in my life.</p>

<p>Northwestern offered me a guaranteed admission to the med school with 3 years of undergrad. That means I will be a doctor before I'm 30... and I that's the only career I want, at least right now. </p>

<p>People tell me I'm such a yale-ish person, that they can all see me there, but I also want to be practical.</p>

<p>I am so confused.... What do you guys think?</p>

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<p>is fin. aid an issue?</p>

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<p>As competitive as med school admissions is getting....somewhere around 5% admission rate, taking the guaranteed med school admission with a top undergrad degree is something that should not be dismissed easily. </p>

<p>There is no guarantee that you will get into any med school after Yale (regardless of how bright you are), let alone one as good as Northwestern. Take the sure thing.</p>

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<p>This is a tough question-- </p>

<p>I've debated with my parents and my college counselor over whether it would be better to attend Northwestern's 7-year med program or go to another prestigious university, like Yale, that would eventually require taking the MCATs and going through the whole process of applying to med schools. Of course, getting into NW's program in the first place is a feat in itself :) so congratulations! </p>

<p>A couple years back, one of the alumni from my school was accepted to and attended Northwestern's program. However, by the time she got through it all she was so burned out that, although she was well on her path to becoming a doctor, she couldn't handle it anymore and simply became a schoolteacher. In no way am I saying that this will happen to everyone, but cramming what's supposed to be an eight-year process into seven years DOES seem a little daunting. A whole year shaved right off. Kind of a lot, if you ask me. </p>

<p>There's also the possibility of changing majors. I've thought about this one a lot-- what if I decided to attend a guaranteed med program, only to realize one or two years down the road that I don't want to pursue a career in medicine after all? I'd want to have other options available to me that are of just as high caliber. Northwestern is famous for its med program; what about everything else? Suppose you want to switch to.. business major, let's say. Would you be happy with what Northwestern has to offer in that department? On the other hand, if you go to Yale, you might be more comfortable switching majors. I don't know, I guess it depends on how set you are on going for med.... it's all so subjective.</p>

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<p>financially, i have to pay exactly the same amount for both.</p>

<p>i read somewhere that yale premed is pretty good though..
is it really that hard to get into med school these days?</p>

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<p>
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is it really that hard to get into med school these days?

[/quote]

No. The number quoted above is taken out of context.</p>

<p>First, the national number of students being admitted to medical school is much higher than 5%. Nearly half of all students who apply are admitted to some medical school, and those that don't -- in my experience -- are usually those who refused to apply broadly enough or who make some kind of critical error in the timing of the process. These are both mistakes you will avoid at Yale.</p>

<p>Clearly any given medical school has a low admissions rate, but that's why you apply to multiple schools.</p>

<p>Second, neither number is relevant to you. You are not the average premedical student in the country, nor are you going to be four years from now. You will still be the same girl who obtained admission to HPME, which probably has a very low admissions rate. You will still be the same girl who gained admission to Yale. You did well on the SAT, and you'll study hard and be taught well and score well on the MCAT, too. You will have good research, good extracurriculars, good essays, and good interviewing skills. In four years, you won't have 5% odds of getting into any given medical school. They'll be much better than that.</p>

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<p>you are not required to finish the program in 7 years
a lot of HPME students finish undergrad in 4 years and they still keep their reserved spot in the med school
thats one of the biggest misconception people have about HPME</p>

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<p>
[quote]
A couple years back, one of the alumni from my school was accepted to and attended Northwestern's program. However, by the time she got through it all she was so burned out that, although she was well on her path to becoming a doctor, she couldn't handle it anymore and simply became a schoolteacher. In no way am I saying that this will happen to everyone, but cramming what's supposed to be an eight-year process into seven years DOES seem a little daunting. A whole year shaved right off. Kind of a lot, if you ask me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nothing is shaved off as far as the med school portion goes. The undergrad lasts for 3 years because NU allows HPME to place out certain classes and let them graduate with 36 units, instead of 45. So there's no cramming. The HPME is supposed to make your undergrad life A LOT EASIER without going through the whole premed process (no MCAT and GPA of only 3.2 required), not the other way around.</p>

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<p>Okay, Yalie here going to Medical School next year. Schools like Northwestern set up these seven year programs because their medical schools are not as good as the kind of people they attract into the programs. Thus, yes, you would guarantee yourself a spot at medical school but you'd be taking a hit in the process. A few issues arise: A) Yalies are courted all around the world in law, medicine, business, etc. They are heavily recruited because they are recognized as the leaders of America. If you go to Yale and go through the steps you will almost definitely get into a vastly superior medical school and will enjoy the process of getting there because you met cool students at Yale and had amazing experiences here along the way. B) If you change your mind and decide medicine isn't your thing, Yale will also give you more options. I consider my undergrad life to have been easy and at the end of the day, I had interviews at every school I applied to (17 of them) and acceptances at 12 of the very top schools. Yale's name and reputation helps out enormously and is a link to an incredible community for life. I wouldn't trade my Yale experience for anything.</p>

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<p>By the way, private message me and I'll be happy to tell you which Medical Schools I have been accepted to and where I am likely going next year (in case this impacts on your decision).</p>

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<p>"Schools like Northwestern set up these seven year programs because their medical schools are not as good as the kind of people they attract into the programs."</p>

<p>Zippership, I don't know how a medical school can get much better than Northwestern's. Its in the top 20 in the country and there really isn't much difference between any of the top 20 schools. Check this website out: <a href="http://mdapplicants.com/%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://mdapplicants.com/&lt;/a> . The last time I checked, some Yale applicants weren't accepted to a lot of the top 20 medical schools. I'm sure you had a great time at Yale, but other people may not have the same experience.</p>

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<p>Ooh, thanks for clearing that up, Sam Lee. I really thought they just squished everything together.</p>

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<p>Sam: I completely affirm Feinberg's excellence and still would not endorse a BS/MD program.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Things change over the years. You will change over the years to come. You may find that you love cities. That you dislike traffic. That the love of your life is committed to attending law school in Austin. That you really want to be a part of the theater culture in New York.</p>

<p>[...]</p>

<p>[Hypothetically], Baylor's a great place and any Harvard undergrad would be proud to go there -- but what if it happens that this particular kid, say, doesn't like Houston? [Would he have rather gone to Georgetown, or Emory, or Tufts?] I would say that while Harvard may not have been likely to help the "quality" of his medical school admission, it might have helped preserve some options that might otherwise have been closed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=298878%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=298878&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I won't say that Yale kids do better than NU kids because I don't have any data. What I will say is that kids who're really active and excited about their undergraduate experiences do better than kids who aren't, and my hope is that the OP will follow her heart when it comes time to pick a school, especially if that choice is a school as excellent as either Northwestern or Yale.</p>

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<p>Three6mafia, I respect your opinions, but having gone through the medical school application process, I have to disagree. There are vast differences between top medical schools just as there are vast differences between top colleges. Yes, any medical school will lead to an M.D. but this is roughly equivalent to saying that any college will lead to a Bachelor's degree. The kinds of opportunities provided, the doors that schools open, and the type of students/faculty that you interact with are completely in each place. Moreover, each school (like each college) has a character to it. choe might find that he/she is happy at NU undergrad but dislikes the character of the med. school. It's not always as straightforward as you think. </p>

<p>Also, you mentioned that some Yale kids don't get into top medical schools. You fail to consider A) the element of choice and B) work ethic. On the first point, I have many friends who didn't apply to top medical schools because they don't want to do academic medicine and/or would rather be close to home. You shouldn't assume that everyone naturally desires a top five program. As for B, some kids screw up in college. If you fail your classes and sit on your ass at either place, you're not going to succeed. The more interesting thing is rather to look at the average applicant from Yale and see where they go and I think you'll find that Yalies do quite well in the process. </p>

<p>As for having a great time at Yale, I have never in my four years here met a single person who didn't absolutely love this place to death. I have never in my time met a single person with doubts about the college. I kid you not. Not a single one. I've met lots of different types of people here and they ALL love it. Yale is a diverse enough of a community that you find your niche and thrive.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Okay, Yalie here going to Medical School next year.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Doesn't necessarily mean what you said is corrent (see below).</p>

<p>
[quote]
Schools like Northwestern set up these seven year programs because their medical schools are not as good as the kind of people they attract into the programs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>NU med school has recently proposed to raise the HPME GPA requirement to 3.5 (from 3.2). They wanted to make sure the quality of the HPME students would be comparable to those coming in through regular admission. A recent reduction in the size of HPME class is another way to keep the quality of both pools roughly the same. Your statement may apply to other med schools, but not NU.</p>

<p>
[quote]
The more interesting thing is rather to look at the average applicant from Yale and see where they go and I think you'll find that Yalies do quite well in the process.

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</p>

<p>The following table shows 5-yr med admission stats for Princeton grads: <a href="http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/handouts/admit_stats.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/handouts/admit_stats.pdf&lt;/a>
Admit rate to NU: 16.5%, average GPA: 3.73. Addmit rate/average GPA for those admitted to similar med schools are right around that numbers also.
I bet Yale's admit stats are similar. I don't know what kind of GPA the "average" applicant from Yale has. It's probably around 3.5-3.6 and I bet many of them don't get into any of the med schools as good as NU, let alone those higher up.</p>

<p>
[quote]
They are heavily recruited...If you go to Yale and go through the steps you will almost definitely get into a vastly superior medical school...

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yawn! (see above)</p>

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<p>bluedevilmike,</p>

<p>I don't completely disagree with you though I wish life is that simple/ideal. Anyway, I am just giving what I'd researched. It's up to the OP to weigh them.</p>

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<p>bluedevilmike, I highly respect your opinions and you really offer some great advice on premed and med schools. However, some BS/MD programs aren't as restrictive as you may think. HPME, for example, allows you to apply out to other medical schools if you would rather go somewhere else. In the past, people were able to apply out and still keep their garunteed spot in Northwestern's Med School, but they changed their policy this year and you will lose the garunteed spot if you apply out and you would be able to be considered for the regular MD pool. I know some BS/MD programs also bind you to their Medical school and limit your options as you said. </p>

<p>Zippership, the only problems I have with your assertions is that your view is very biased and you completely disregard Feinberg as an elite medical school. I'm sure if you work hard at either place, you will be successful in the medical school admission process. Yale is an incredible school, but so is Northwestern. I'm sure that Yale has some incredible professors and students, but so does Northwestern. What many doctors have told me is that the undergrad or Med school that you went to is not as important as the residency program that you are matched to. So in the end, it really comes down to being at the place where you will be the happiest, and if you would be equally happy at either Yale or Northwestern, I would choose Northwestern HPME.</p>

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<p>New quote marks, names substituted, and emphasis rearranged:</p>

<p>
[quote]
The problem is not that he's officially locked in. The problem is that he could be sacrificing a powerful undergraduate experience.... Now, if he happens to prefer Northwestern undergrad over Yale, then certainly the guarantee doesn't cost him anything.</p>

<p>But what if - and I speak semi-hypothetically - Yale premeds have more choices than NU premeds have when the time comes to choose a medical school? What if Yale premeds do better in medical school? What if premeds from Yale get better advising?</p>

<p>My point is not that Yale is better than NU - my point is that it could be, and the OP should not be willing to give these things up simply for the promise of a quite-good medical school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And, again, the problem has nothing to do with how good Feinberg is.

[quote]
Things change over the years. You will change over the years to come. You may find that you love cities. That you dislike traffic. That the love of your life is committed to attending law school in Austin. That you really want to be a part of the theater culture in New York.</p>

<p>[...]</p>

<p>[Hypothetically], Feinberg's a great place and any Yale undergrad would be proud to go there -- but what if it happens that this particular kid, say, doesn't like Chicago's weather? [Would he have rather gone to Georgetown, or Emory, or Tufts?] I would say that while Yale may not have been likely to help the "quality" of his medical school admission, it might have helped preserve some options that might otherwise have been closed.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>In particular, Feinberg has a peculiar curriculum which I was not a particular fan of. What if the OP, after college, realizes that she/he doesn't like it? It's not that Feinberg isn't a great school, it's that Feinberg might not be a great match, and it's impossible to know this four years in advance.</p>

<p>Furthermore, if you'll have to sacrifice your Feinberg guarantee in order to apply out, then I think that's a major disadvantage to the program.</p>

<p>If this kid's college experience, including flexibility of eventual medical school admissions, is going to be identical coming out of undergrad, then well and good -- the point is moot. But if Yale will help this student preserve some options -- even if it's only because she/he'll like Yale better, enjoy the atmosphere more, and excel more -- then the kid needs to go to Yale.</p>

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<p>oh HPME changed its apply out policy? this is new to me.</p>

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<p>Three6mafia, of course residency matters most in professional development but this is a circular argument since where you go to medical school vastly affects where you will do your residency. Feinberg is undoubtedly a great school, but is it the right school for the OP? In fact, given that medical school is such a good predictor of residency programs, does Feinberg match people into good residency programs that suit the OP's interests? Are those programs places where the OP will be happy? I ask all this rhetorically, because most likely, the OP has no idea what he wants to do in medicine and won't for many years. A vast number of people change their mind about academic interests in medical school as they do in undergrad as well. Flexibility in education is a key word. It's largely what separates American undergraduate education from that of the rest of the world. It allows you to explore different options and experiences so that when you do decide to commit to an area of interest, you do it with the knowledge and perspective gained from a general/liberal education. This shouldn't be undervalued.</p>