<p>I'm not sure what you mean by saying graduate students are "in a completely different part of campus." If you are talking about where they live, that's true at Yale as well (my impression is that grad students at Yale generally don't live on campus at all), and I doubt that there is any university where grad students play a significant role in undergrad social life.
As for the ratios you bring up, remember that a large reason for that fact is that those graduate student numbers include professional school students. Since Princeton has no professional schools (law, med, business), the result is a much smaller grad student population. These professional school students do not affect the attention given to undergrads, because they are not competing for the attention of the same professors. Law professors, med school professors and business school professors do not (with a few exceptions) play a role in undergrad education. They are basically in separate schools.</p>
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In closing, let me say that both Princeton and Yale are fantastic schools, and if you do indeed have the opportunity to choose between them, you should consider yourself very lucky. I encourage you, if you have to make this decision, to attend both schools' admitted students programs.
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<p>svalbardlutefisk, thanks for popping in. OP, this is great advice. No matter what others say about the two schools, it ultimately comes down to which one is the best fit for YOU. Yale or Princeton, it depends on the individual. The differences I posted were from the viewpoint of the professor... when you visit you may discover some very applicable in your personal situation, others not so much.</p>
<p>I do want to point out though, that while undergraduates at Yale are undoubtedly getting a great education, Princeton's undergraduate focus is still a very valid strength. Princeton undergraduates DEFINE the university, not just part of the university, but the whole.</p>
<p>thank you everyone for all of your advice!</p>
<p>Haha, Yale students jaded? I guess you weren't at the Princeton-Yale football game in November. Fanatical I say!</p>
<p>Which school is better for science, particularly life science (molecular bio, biochem, etc.)?</p>
<p>For science in general, P-ton is better. It's more difficult to say of biological sciences because that is Yale's strongest science and Princeton's weakest. Perhaps the two are about equal?</p>
<p>Well, the fact that Princeton has 4 and 1/2 buildings devoted to life sciences (Guyot also houses Environmental Science and Geosciences) and has 3 molecular biology laboratories: Schultz, Moffett, and Carl Icahn, definitely implies that Princeton's Molecular Biology department is very well funded, especially because 3 of their 3 1/2 buildings are brand new. I definitely disagree that life sciences are Princeton's weakest science area, at least in terms of facilities and ability to teach undergraduates. Besides, President Tilghman would not let such an inadequacy exist at Princeton, as she is a molecular biologist herself.</p>
<p>Life sciences at Princeton do rock, but not as much as physics and chemistry at Princeton, according to rankings alone, that is. Yale is kinda shockingly bad at physics and chemistry (and engineering), but biology seems to be pretty good, again according to rankings.</p>
<p><quote> For science in general, P-ton is better. It's more difficult to say of biological sciences because that is Yale's strongest science and Princeton's weakest. </quote></p>
<p>I am a prospective Mol Bio major and one of the reasons I chose Pton was the mol bio program. I am almost certain that Ptons is stronger than Yale in the sciences, including the molecular bio program. </p>
<p>Clenedator, just wondering, how do you know that the life sciences is Pton's weakest science/ where did you get that from? I'm saying saying your claim is wrong (even though I am skeptical) I'm just curious how you found out, etc.</p>
<p>The reason why im a little skeptical is becuase not only do they have a whole building dedicated to genomics, the mol bio program has a huge endowment, and the president of the university, Shirley Tilghman, is a big supporter of Mol Bio, given that she was a professor in Mol Bio before she became president. When I talked to her about the Mol Bio program, she definitely said that it was one of Pton's strongest programs.</p>
<p>Absolutely guppy, I delineated the usage of that huge endowment in the previous post. I even forgot to mention the Lewis Thomas lab in my list of the Mol Bio laboratories on campus. The Mol Bio facilities at Princeton are top notch, and the faculty are very good as well.</p>
<p>Well, I probably am wrong because I was going with the Gourman report rankings, which I myself know to be total BS. They rank P-ton 4th in physics, 3rd for geosciences, 3rd for astrophysics, but only 25th for biology. Somehow I seem to have misplaced chemistry. Yale gets 3rd in biology, but only 11th in physics, 10th out of about 20 for astonomy (not astrophysics), and 9th for geosciences. But the more I look into it, these are definitely crap cuz they seem to place the University of Utah higher than Pton for bio and...yeah. So I guess bio at Pton is just as good as physics (or so we can assume).</p>
<p>Admissions officers always pray for good weather on Tour Days :)</p>
<p>About Y v P, I love them both dearly. P is a bit more like a country club, which has positives and negatives. Both are just so stellar, and both are near NYC. You can hardly go wrong. I attended one and not the other, but I'm not telling which ;)</p>
<p>Clendenenator, I think the Gourman report only deals with graduate school, and it is quite old if I'm not mistaken, at least 5-6 years I think?</p>
<p>marsden, my ESP tells me that you attended Yale...</p>
<p>Pertinent to this discussion is a recent piece at MSN regarding life at Princeton:</p>
<p>"Many of its undergrads boast that Princeton is the "best place to get an undergraduate education," and indeed it offers a stellar combination of world-class academics, state-of-the-art facilities, and a unique social "experience found nowhere else." Princeton's oft-mentioned eating clubs are also great "places to party" because there is "something for everyone." Even though "Princeton is a small town, there is a train station on campus that takes you to Philly or New York in 45 minutes." With so many great things happening on and off campus, it's no wonder Princeton's "extremely accomplished" students wouldn't want to be anywhere else."</p>
<p>I think the Gourman is old but they * claim * to be an undergrad ranking. It does clearly hurt the smaller research schools like Dartmouth, Rice, and to some extent Princeton, so I think it is indeed largely based on graduate programs. Also, I think "campus beauty" and a bunch of random things like that are in the formula, so it's impossible to decipher.</p>
<p>Actually, if I were faced with the delightful choice of Princeton vs Yale, I'd probably choose Princeton for the quality of life and slightly closer proximity to NYC. Also, I like things a little bit cushy ;)</p>
<p>I don't see Princeton as cushy, either in my day or in my daughter's day. The academics are just too damn intense and the number of activities in which kids have fairly high level involvement just too high. But, it is friendly. I like to think of it as cuddly. The Princeton kids are very cuddly with eachother. I think it is a combination of the peaceful environment and self-selection - cuddly, friendly, social types see the place and like it...</p>
<p>I absolutely agree with you Alumother. The school's culture almost forces students to be everywhere at once, study break here, guest lecture there, all scheduled on top on one another, which is something I do not like. On top of that, students who are in activities often have many conflicts, something that happens to me all the time.</p>
<p>I'd like to second (third?) what Alummother and tokyo have said: Princeton is many things, but "cushy" is not among them. This place forces you to run or perish. Classwork itself can keep you busy throughout the week...but you also have to find place on your plate for EC's, and all sorts of random things come up (Dan Rather, for example, is coming to campus tonight, as I found out when I saw the huge HDTV mobile-station outside Richardson). </p>
<p>That said, it's all a blast; the work you do tends to be more rewarding than in high school, and the people are quirky and intelligent. But given the massive sleep-deprivation I'm looking at this week, I have to protest when I hear "cushy". </p>
<p>:p</p>