<p>I can't add anything to this discussion other than thanks to those who are having it. This is a very complicated process -- and out of the blue I have found an offer of merit $$ has totally changed our paradigm. My daughter is totally smitten by the idea that someone would actually want her. I think that says a lot about the atmosphere in this year's crop of applicants -- but also a lot about my daughter. It doesn't all make us feel very good, but it is what it is.</p>
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</p>
<p>Amen. And you can sleep at night.</p>
<p>marathonman88--I don't think the number of kids in this category is "vanishingly small." My 3 kids who have attended college have all had this choice
(or a similar one) to make. They were:</p>
<p>State Uni for free vs. Columbia/JTS (no scholarship but it won out b/c of the far superior Judaic Studies component.)</p>
<p>Illinois at 1/2 scholarship vs. Carnegie Mellon (no scholarship; Illinois won out b/c of money and being equal in the field of interest.)</p>
<p>Case Western at 3/4 scholarship vs. State Uni for free (Case won for various factors, scholarship made it possible.)</p>
<p>The trick is always to find a place that is good enough for you but wants to give you at least some money. We succeeded with children 2 and 3. :) And in every case it was their decision where to go.</p>
<p>Be careful though folks. Many kids feel obligated to take the cheapest choice without really understanding the finances. For my daughter, knowing she was the second to be in college with a sister at private school, I had to repeatedly tell her we could handle the money.</p>
<p>What I learn from threads like this is that it's just totally individual and we can post forever and not change any opinions. It's about intrinsic values of the family. </p>
<p>Why do these posts always center on Curmugeon's choice? Is he the only poster here who made that choice or is he just popular?</p>
<p>Ok Curmudgeon, I don't think you answered these two questions coming up. </p>
<p>Since I do think the 3rs are important,</p>
<p>At Rhodes, in the classroom, are class sizes small, are there plenty of chances to increase your public speaking skills, aid and opportunity to improve your writing?</p>
<p>Others, what experiences do you see your kids having?</p>
<p>If you can communicate your ideas well through speaking and writing, your ideas don't have to be very good or flat out wrong. :) (Kind of like that character Billy Crystal used to play. "I look Marvelous". )</p>
<p>Kirmum, you're playing a big part. :)</p>
<p>It wasn't his choice--it was his daughter's. It's really hard for some people to imagine turning down an Ivy. I guess lots of people just can't do it. That's what makes this discussion important. My son turned them down before the app process due to lack of fit. They'll have another chance at him for grad school.</p>
<p>Kirmum, what did you do in the classroom to elevate the discussion and education when you taught an average class?</p>
<p>Tarhunt, other professors and teachers ( I would use screen names, but I don't know who all the professors and teachers are), what do you do?</p>
<p>"it seems relevant to me to note that not many people choose anything other than Harvard in that situation."</p>
<p>Ah but my point is that $25,000 does not mean nearly as much to a top 3% family as it does to a truly middle or working class family. You cannot compare the choices. They people choosing Harvard oer Center are either poor and will pay $0 either place because of need only aid or so rich that $25,000 a year is inconsequential.</p>
<p>The people for whom $25,000 is a lot of money made their choice and did not apply to HYPS.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Be careful though folks. Many kids feel obligated to take the cheapest choice
[/quote]
I also think many kids feel pressure to choose the highest ranked choice simply because it is the highest ranked. I see a lot more of that on the student threads (although some hypothetical only) than the reverse.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Why do these posts always center on Curmugeon's choice? Is he the only poster here who made that choice ...?
[/quote]
Huh? I believe I would need the fingers on both hands to tally the posters whose kids have made a merit $$ over higher-ranked school choice, or are considering such a choice at this moment.</p>
<p>I guess I'm trying to make the point that some people who can afford HYP don't want them, impossible as this is for other people to believe. They are not a best fit for every kid, even very academically able kids. People are making fun of laserbrother on another thread for being fixated on HYP but the fixation runs rampant.</p>
<p>kirmum - I'll take a stab at your last question. Cur started this thread; his D's process last year was quite a public one on these boards, so many folks who have been here that long are aware of it. Since the question comes up often about prestige vs. money, and he's been there, done that, he is usually kind enough to share his experience. As near as I can tell, others are welcome to share their own experiences. I for one appreciate hearing different people's takes on this. My sons both chose a different route than cur's D, and hearing from the flip side is interesting to me. (In actuality, it isn't as different a route as it seems, as all 3 made thoughtful choices based on what they wanted from school.) </p>
<p>And yes, Cur is popular. :)</p>
<p>Edit: This thread is moving too fast. I wrote this on the last page!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Huh? I believe I would need the fingers on both hands to tally the posters whose kids have made a merit $$ over higher-ranked school choice, or are considering such a choice at this moment.
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</p>
<p>Well, my DD is considering such a choice at this very moment. See post # 84.</p>
<p>Many people have contributed in this thread.</p>
<p>MSMDAD, is your daughter interested in research opportunities, leadership roles, internships? Maybe you can discuss this with prospective colleges?</p>
<p>Hopefully others will have ideas.</p>
<p>I would also check out the career center and ask prospective schools where students like my kid have ended up? Graduate school? Which ones, etc.?</p>
<p>And I'll follow up on binx's stab at answering kirmum's question as to why it's "all about" curmudgeon's choice.</p>
<p>It isn't. In fact, in his OP he stated that
[quote]
This thread is for anybody that has been or will be in this situation .... Please answer out with your stories.
[/quote]
But if it <em>is</em> all about curm and "his" choice in your perception, I guess it's just because he is a <em>highly ranked</em> poster :D.</p>
<p>I did not at all mean anthing negative Curmudgeon. My question was quite literal. Whenever I've seen this topic on CC, you are the one pointed to along with evil robot for turning down Yale for merit dollars. I don't recall seeing anyone with a Harvard or Princeton story. My question was really to ask how unusal that choice is. Is the poster who said it was unusual correct?</p>
<p>Great discussion, hate to leave but I'm already late for dinner! DH thinks I'm nuts.</p>
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[quote]
I am planning on sitting down with her and my wife after all of the acceptances are in and doing a matrix that includes things like finances (loans for both us and her, and what the school is offering), ability to study abroad, ability to come home during breaks/Thanksgiving, AP Credits accepted, etc. Not to hijack this thread, but I would appreciate input as to what other factors should be considered.
[/quote]
I don't think it's a hijack, really MSMDad, because it goes to what we are discussing - why would one choose the lesser-ranked school over the HYPS-AWS school?</p>
<p>From my perspective, with a kid who has attended both in his rather Katrina-crazed college career, I would have you add a lot of the "softer" side elements, which can only be obtained via a visit. And they can maybe better be obtained in a non-formal-admitted student week anyway. What is the classroom atmosphere (the "will that be on the test" type question vs. more spirited probing debate and questioning in the classroom)? How much pressure do kids seem to be feeling - are outside-the-classroom conversations laden with re-hashing of tests, worries about grades? What is Thursday night like on campus - a heavy drinking night that kicks off the weekend or a "school night" atmosphere? Does she feel she is "among her people" when she is there? OTOH, does she find the level of diversity in style, ethnicity or whatever she cares about there? Just a few thoughts, to add to your list of the more easily quantifiable things.</p>
<p>In the end, I believe greatly in going with her gut as a heavily weighted factor.</p>
<p>kirmun, I agree. It is too much about me and my D. It may be that others feel more comfortable letting my D's choice be the subject . That's why I put it out there. It is not to offend anybody. Anyway, my butt is so calloused from previous arrows that most of the time they just bounce off. Maybe that's part of it , too. I owe so much to the kind people here I'm just trying to pay a debt. ;) Isn't that right, cheers? </p>
<p>I've been very appreciative, as have many of you, of the tenor of this thread. Respectful discourse with widely and wildly varying opinions. Who'd have thunk it? Right here in River City.</p>
<p>Wow. I was hesitant to even start reading this thread because it hits a little too close to home at the moment and I can barely stand to further muddy the waters - but there are some really great posts in here, and as I was reading I wish I had copied and pasted them onto something.</p>
<p>I remember the day we sat staring at many piles of college applications and viewbooks and son #1 was trying to decide which 6 or 7 he should apply to. Although a strong student and good musician, he had been generally disinterested in the college process, and had pretty much been dragged around to the tours. I looked at all those piles and panicked. It became clear that the ones coming off the table were the ones where he stood no chance of substantial merit money - and they were the higher ranked schools. (At the time we had a $65K EFC - which included savings in our kid's name.) Looking ahead, I just felt so uncertain about what would happen after that money was gone, after son #2 was in college, and feeling uncertain about employment. He ended up at a LAC that is 48th ranked, with good merit money. </p>
<p>He is now a sophomore and he would tell you that he can not imagine being anyplace else. He has spent break with his nose in a book called "South Asia's Nuclear Dilemma" (or something like that) and reading us parts. He talks about his professors like they are his friends, like they are truly mentors. He will be able to be on campus this summer doing research with a prof. </p>
<p>And this is not a brown-nose kid. I know these profs have pulled him out, engaged him. Would that have happened at a more competitive school? Or would he have been content to sit in the back, and not participate? I have no idea where his profs went to grad school. Nor do I care. They are obviously there because they want to teach.</p>
<p>Son #2 is an entirely different kid. As I've alluded to in the past, his current list has a $10k/yr school (cheaper than his high school), a $27K/year school, and many at the $30K range. I am not willing to take responsibility for this decision. (I can't even decide myself what would be the best choice.) But I honestly have no clue what is the better direction for him. To top it all off, these are not "normal" schools. The $10K school is a laid back, little known university with a reputation for partying - but where he has been honored with a nice engineering award, he'd be known from the moment he stepped into the department, with expectations that he would assume leadership activities. The others are pretty much all tech schools, swarming with boys, frats, kids hiding in their rooms playing video games all night, professors who don't speak English. It's a scary scenario. He might have a degree with a recognizable name on it - but will he be yet another engineer who can't write, can't talk, can't work with other people? Will he look back fondly on his college years, feel some school spirit, feel he was able to experiment academically a bit? Will he have time or motivation to play his cello in an orchestra? Or will he feel that it was just all one big crunch? </p>
<p>I'm just glad it's not my decision. And for him, I don't know how much the money will influence him. </p>
<p>And just to complete the post, at least one of his schools is completely off the list just due to money alone.</p>
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[quote]
I have no idea where his profs went to grad school. Nor do I care. They are obviously there because they want to teach.
[/quote]
A very valid point. I also think it is valid to look at where faculty got their degrees. But it doesn't tell you whether they like the teaching or convey an interest in the undergrads at their institution. Another difference DS has noted in the three different schools he has attended.</p>