<p>So, just to explain something to incoming freshmen/new transfer students.</p>
<p>You were probably one of the smartest kids in high school/at community college. You probably earned almost all As. You may have taken lots and lots of AP classes or lots and lots of honors courses. </p>
<p>However, almost everyone at Berkeley is just like you. And Berkeley classes are quite hard. They are hard for lots of reasons. </p>
<li><p>They want to set high standards, so if someone earns a high grade, it means something. A high GPA from Berkeley means something to grad schools and employers. For it to mean something, most people have to get a much lower GPA.</p></li>
<li><p>They are actively interested in weeding people out. Especially in lower division math and science classes, if you aren’t really serious, or aren’t that good at it, they want you to give up quickly. </p></li>
<li><p>College material is just harder, more abstract, more complex, more more more. It’s college. And upper division courses are much harder than lower division. They are more complex, more abstract, harder harder harder. AP Micro/Macro is a little hard. The same course at community college is probably a little harder. Econ 1 at Berkeley is harder still. But Econ 100A? Now that’s really hard.</p></li>
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<p>Now, you may be smarter than the average Berkeley student. You may be much smarter. You may be able to take 20 units a semester in really hard courses and earn A+s in all your classes. </p>
<p>However, wouldn’t it be safer to assume that you are probably not the smartest kid at Berkeley, to take a conservative schedule your first semester, see how things go?</p>
<p>ken, I think your giving a wrong message to entering freshmen. Most of us already know about the competition at berkeley, and don't need to be constantly reminded of that.. I mean, I mostly agree with your argument that classes are much tougher here, but why do you keep assuming that most freshmen are "accademically immature"? If a student is willing to work for it, then I think a better advice for them will be to balance their schedule, and take a few challenging classes but also take a couple they know they will excell in..</p>
<p>sn0angel07: The truth is, most freshman really are academically immature. And oftentimes, they're not really willing to work for it--it's far too tempting to just go out and have fun. It's a smart idea to put off challenging classes until later on since people are more likely to do well in them in future years. And honestly, taking one or two semesters of 13 units won't set you back as much as people tell you, unless a) you're double majoring in something or b) you didn't take enough APs in high school.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You're probably not that smart...A high GPA from Berkeley means something to grad schools and employers. For it to mean something, most people have to get a much lower GPA.
<p>GPA of 3.8 or higher with consideration for the degree of difficulty of the course work.
Upper level mathematical course work including real analysis or honors advanced calculus with grades of A- minus or better.
Quantitative GRE score of 780 or higher. Grades of A-minus or better in intermediate level theory courses (microeconomics, macroeconomics, econometrics) with a strong preference for honors or mathematical track versions of all three courses.
Advanced undergraduate or graduate-level course work in economics.
Proven independent research ability (e.g., honors thesis).
If applicable, TOEFL score of 600 on the paper test or 270 on the computer-based test.
Very strong letters of recommendations from at least two faculty members who know the candidate in both classroom and out-of-class settings (e.g. independent research).
Statement of purpose that expresses coherent ideas about why the candidate is interested in pursuing a Ph.D. in economics and describes likely areas of research interest.
<p>Kenf, while I understand your motives, I don't see why you will not consider allowing the student to find out empirically if they are capable of what they believe themselves to be if the option to drop extends weeks into the semester. Why not enroll in a normal workload your first semester and if the load is, as you suggest, too much, drop classes accordingly.</p>
<p>Also keep in mind your audience. Those using CC are not the average student, as it has been noted and observed continually in the past, the user-base for this website and this forum generally attracts a higher-quality, more focused student. Now, I am not proposing that by visiting this site and procuring all information possible through such a medium, that we are able to understand the life and academic responsibility of a Berkeley student, but instead that we are prepared to find out.</p>
<p>I honestly see nothing wrong with "over-enrolling" during one's first semester to a normal work-load, if the option to drop classes still exists. The only problem I can foresee is that the date by which one must drop a class is almost always before any major exam, midterm, paper, etc, which may cause the demand of a given class to be deceiving --a risk which can be mitigated, to some extent, by speaking with students, having already taken the class, about their experiences.</p>
<p>I do appreciate what help you have offered, and do offer, to this forum, and to me personally, but I think your rigidity may need to be reevaluated.</p>
<p>
[quote]
why do you keep assuming that most freshmen are "accademically immature"? If a student is willing to work for it, then I think a better advice for them will be to balance their schedule, and take a few challenging classes but also take a couple they know they will excell in..
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</p>
<p>Because the classes they "know they will excel in" may actually turn out to be way harder, with much harder grading standards, than they expected.</p>
<p>Also, most high school students never have to write a serious research paper or take a truly challenging final. It is regurgitate, regurgitate, regurgitate with low standards. College is harder, for the vast majority of students.</p>
<p>All I am saying is, take it easy your first semester. If you do great, then increase the level of difficulty second semester. If it's too easy, well then, you had an easy first semester and had time for other stuff. How is that going to hurt you long-term? </p>
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I honestly see nothing wrong with "over-enrolling" during one's first semester to a normal work-load, if the option to drop classes still exists.
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</p>
<p>Over-enrolling and dropping a course is a fine strategy. But things may seem to be going swimmingly until the first mid-term or first paper, and that may not come until after the drop deadline. So be careful.</p>
<p>
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Also keep in mind your audience. Those using CC are not the average student, as it has been noted and observed continually in the past
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</p>
<p>Note, even if you ARE smarter than the average Bear, you still may find the distractions (fun) of college life quite compelling. Studying may turn out to be the last thing on your mind, in fact.</p>
<p>Wow, way to scare like half of the incoming Freshman on CC. Courses are really not that bad and it's very doable. Remember that you'll be with LOTS of other students in similar/very much the same situation as you.</p>
<p>My point is not that you're all destined for failure. You're not. My point is that you should take it slow first semester. That way, you will have the time and energy to devote to schoolwork to do well, with all the other fun distractions available.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A high GPA from Berkeley means something to grad schools and employers.
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</p>
<p>I wish that was true, but the evidence unfortunately belies it. For example, as a Berkeley student, you actually need to have higher grades to get into law or medical school than does the average admitted applicant at that same school. That's right: higher. If anything, the exact opposite should be happening: that if grad schools really cared about Berkeley's tough grading, then they should be admitting Berkeley students with lower grades relative to other admittees. But that is not happening; they want higher grades. </p>
<p>Possible explanations for higher academic standard:
1. too many qualified applicants from Cal;
2. among the qualified applicants, too many belong to an over represented ethnic group;
3. overcrowded campus limits cv padding opportunities;
4. time-sucking classes limits cv padding opportunities;
5. most qualified applicants do not have the connections and resources to engage in cv padding activities in the summer;
6. Cal has a bad rap for producing mostly one dimensional students;
7. Adcom has to maintain certain targeted average admission gpa. It's a dirty job but somebody got to do it;
8. Cal brand does not instill confidence and respect since it can't even evict the trepassing treesitters for over a year.</p>
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2. among the qualified applicants, too many belong to an over represented ethnic group;
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<p>To this notion, allow me to point out that Prop 209 bans AA for all California public schools, including the UC graduate schools. Yet even the UC law and medical schools provide no 'grade mercy' to Berkeley applicants.</p>
<p>I just don't understand the whole discussion. Is the point that you should go to HYPMS instead of Berkeley because it's easier to get into grad school? That's a pretty thought, but that's just not an option for 95%+ of Berkeley students.</p>
<p>That Berkeley students should go to UCSD or UC Davis instead of Berkeley? Well, I think that's short-sighted, but you can try to transfer if that's what you really want. ;-)</p>
<p>This direct quote from Cass Cliatt, director of media relations, Princeton University neatly sums up the situation:
"A commitment to 'acting affirmatively to ensure diversity,' is not the same as discriminating."</p>
<p>I'll just say that my grades at Berkeley are better than my grades from high school, and my high school grades weren't bad. My GPA on the other hand...</p>
<p>In high school you had to know the material. At Berkeley you need to know about 80% of it because half the class is going to know only 60% of it and the curve has usually been generous, at least for lower div math/sci/engineering. It's harder material but more interesting and you're often allowed formula sheets.</p>
<p>If you've done well outside of high school - SAT, competitions, professional experience - then I would say that you have less to worry about because you've been judged on more than one metric.</p>
<p>My last suggestion is to enjoy Berkeley. I liked three of my classes, thought another one was interesting, and wasn't too fond of the last. You're going to have classes that you don't like, but be sure to take classes that you like and have subject material that you would study even if you weren't a college student. Be sure to relax, too - skipping an early morning class can make your other ones for the day much more enjoyable if you feel you'd be tired otherwise.</p>