1~2 gap years During high school for non-academic fine art program?

@Tigerle ,

A gap year during high school may help her deciding on college major. Also it might (or nor) help her in selective college admission, and possibly save her from years of not-sculpting if it turns out that way.

@twoinanddone , She is 13. But she wears make up and mature but not revealing clothing, and she blends fine with adults at her community college classes. At least blends enough that no one dares asking her age any longer. She has been doing it for 3 years. She won’t go to a bar. But the atelier program runs into late evening. I hear that they are serious artists and won’t be partying like college freshmen. Unless prohibited by the law of the land, having an older boyfriend won’t bother me. She has been already spotted going to a library with 6~7 years older boy and it didn’t bother us. My daughter isn’t a naive child. Though lacking personal experience, we frankly talk about stuffs that may shock other parents - boys, sexuality, pedophilia. I already told her that I won’t mind her making a boyfriend.

@kac425

“i’m just trying to explain that she is extraordinarily fortunate to have had the opportunities that she’s had.”

And I went against social expectation, let kids be kids, emotional instabilities and all that for to give her the opportunities. I will continue to do so.

“people take genED’s not only to meet requirements, but to be well rounded, well educated grown-ups.”

That’s why we did it. But once she had it, then why not take full advantage of what she has already worked hard and earned?

“she will likely need to repeat lower level courses because they have more depth than she’s experienced to date.”

That was what I thought. But recently it turned out that her new school, Grier School is far more accommodating and encouraging than I imagined on her maintaining academic challenges and offered her to take upper grades courses. So it seems she isn’t repeating anything but arts. Dd is very happy with her Fall course selections. I am happy too.

“let her be… getting in to fabulous schools”

I always do, without constraining her. If who she is turns out to be full time sculptor, I don’t want to constrain her with society expected 4 full years of high school and 4 full years of fancy college. I won’t be Michael Corleone asking his singer son to finish his law degree first. The following bio of one of sculpture instructor at Barcelona Academy of Art seems just as fine to me;

" After expressing her interest in art from an early age, Valentina began her formal art education at the age of 13 in Tzanko Lavrenov art school in Plovdiv (Bulgaria). After her graduation in 2004, she grew her interest in figurative sculpture and joined the Florence Academy of Art, where she studied drawing, painting and sculpture, and where she later participated as a teacher in the drawing program."

But then I also don’t want to limit her as an artist only. I want the doors remaining as open as they can be without inhibiting the current goal.

@mathyone

“Is it legal”

It’s been legally taken care of. Please PM me if you need details.

“plan is all set.”

For now. But we talk a lot. She expresses other wishes and plans too. I am following and supporting her, rather than leading her.

“detailed research and planning a gap year or two. all completely behind her back,”

I have always done researches and planning before giving her options and information. It’s my homework. It hasn’t disrupted her because she is the one making choices.

“proper age”

There is no such thing as universal proper age. It’s individual.

“if she’s completed her high school Spanish program,”

She is going to be completing her high school Spanish in 2~3 years. She has 4 years of pretty intensive learning already. Purely for language, she could be ready now.

“but if so, why are you bending over backwards”

We do things for her developments, but afterward I still want to package and present them to the admissions if she is going to apply to U.S. colleges. I consider it utilizing already existing resources.

well it IS prohibited by law in this country, and for very good reason.

you almost had me convinced with your position up until this last post. to each their own, and i’d have to imagine you just didnt articulate yourself well, but she IS a child, and i think you really need to remember it.

enjoy the child you have, not the adult you wish you had.

You are combining two separate sentences. In the first one I meant older but not older enough to be illegal. In the second sentence it is legal in the U.S. because a college library is not a hotel.

She is a child (specifically a preteen soon to become a teen), just not a naive one. She is who she is. I can’t and don’t want to prevent her from getting information using Internet. I embrace who she is which is a very curious and open minded one, without trying to fit her into any label or age model defined by development psychology.

BTW, I heard that they all had great time joking about her being the example of a volatile teen in her college Development Psychology class. She aced the course and learned what is expected at her age, and how far she already is, always has been, from the society’s expectation.

I’d like a little clarification here. Are you saying your 13 year old daughter is dating a 20 year old man and you’re ok with that?

@MotherOfDragons , “I’d like a little clarification here. Are you saying your 13 year old daughter is dating a 20 year old man and you’re ok with that?”

We were fine because it wasn’t really dating. They were taking the same class, they were straight walking from the classroom to a populated college library to discuss a group project during bright day time, and she knew that her mom was nearby. She wasn’t going to follow him alone to an underground storage of anything. She isn’t naive.

My wife was a bit disappointed because she was hushed not to greet her in front of the boy, probably not to diminish her social status as an independent college student. But otherwise we didn’t see any problem. The decision was already made 2 years ago when we started dropping her off at college.

She has made many college friends. They were necessary because she needed mature enough friends to talk about environmental issues and politics, in addition to pop cultures. Middle school aged kids are not usually ready for that. High school kids don’t like hanging around with younger kids. Luckily college kids didn’t mind that. But now she is going to a private high school, she is expecting that she can find some same aged friends sharing the common interests.

Okay, do it your way, but I’m telling you a high school student hanging around with a college student 4+ years older, who has a car, or a dorm room, is a dangerous thing. You may think it’s cool for them not to ask if she’s 13 or 17, but legally it makes a difference to THEIR lives. Nice of you not to worry about the legal life of men she’s putting at risk. If she’s hiding her age from them in front of her mother, image what she’s saying when you are not around.

Send her to boarding school. Let her experience the high school life. Let her drive the bus, not you.

…and this is me unsubscribing from this thread. :-w

@twoinanddone , As I mentioned earlier, We talk about pedophilia. And she well understands that she can ruin a man’s life if she is not careful. By the man, we discussed all kinds - active seekers, opportunitists who will take advantage if she lets her guard down, and even totally innocent ones that you described. She will try hard to not ruin any of them’s lives.

There is nothing that she does when we are not around. She has almost never let out of our sight. And she is going to a girls only boarding school out of nowhere. Still, I have full confidence in her intelligence and maturity to do the right things even when her hormones makes her confused.

And for your last comment, I have repeated my answers so many times in this thread I think I can skip it. It’s your choice to believe or not. I have no more wishes to convince those who still don’t believe it.

The pedophilia issue is not the problem (but great you’ve discussed it here). What other posters are trying to tell you- and are being too delicate to spell it out (but I will) is that a 14 year old having sex with a 19 year old doesn’t make him a pedophile. It does make him guilty of statutory rape depending on what state you live in, regardless of how much consent your D gives, and regardless of how YOU feel about it. The law feels differently.

You need to spend more time researching statutory rape in your state and less time researching sculptors in Barcelona. Your D will not become a registered sex offender- her male partner/friend will.

Think about that.

And to your point about the confidence in her intelligence and maturity- not for nothing, but your D has been homeschooled. You are your wife have been fully insulated from middle school and high school culture up until now. You just cannot fathom what issues a teenager may have- whether protected, loved, mature, excelling in academics or not.

Good luck to all of you.

@blossom
Sex is not a delicate word to me. And we did talk about statutory rape too, more important than outright pedo as she is more likely to encounter sr and it would be a horrible experience to see, for everyone involved, a morally innocent young man’s life ruined. I did it as soon as she started wearing makeup.

Your other comment - i will keep that in mind.

I’m guessing you’ve never been a 13 year old girl, and have never had a 15 year old girl (or boy). Talk talk talk all you want, but at the time, in the heat of the moment, things happen, especially if the child thinks she’s got things under control. I’ve both been a teen girl and am raising two. Of COURSE they do things I don’t know about. Of COURSE I tell them about the dangers of dating and flirting and drinking and drugs. Of COURSE those dangers are still there. I did a lot of really dangerous things when I was a teen that my parents didn’t know about because I knew I was more mature, more knowing than the adults warning me about dangers. Oh, how smart and worldly I was at 16. I was not smart, I was lucky and I also lived in a small town where the dangers were somewhat reduced.

I don’t understand you saying your daughter has been to the library with 20 year olds, but never out of your sight. You’ve also said her college classmates have included her in their study groups and work sessions - are you always there? If you are always there, always shadowing her on the college campus, she’s not prepared for anything life throws at her.

I usually do not pay too much attention to threads like this because the weird stew of advice-seeking-but-not-really / humblebragging / packaging a student for college admissions is generally too bizarre for my liking. But the last few posts have gone from bizarre to disturbing.

As a father of girls myself, I will go even further than @blossom did. Honestly, the only 20 year old men who are going to be interested in “dating” a 13 year old child are those who have issues of one sort or another of their own (I write “dating” when “preying on” might be more appropriate). You can only hope that their “issues” don’t end up being dangerous. Please, please do not dismiss this risk, especially if your child is going to be living in a foreign country without family support or even fluency in the language. It does not sound like this art school thingy is used to dealing with kids this young, so they may not be able to supervise her as closely as she will need to be.

You do not want your daughter to end up being a magnet who attracts the most dysfunctional 20 year old guy in her class. I don’t care how precocious or mature she is, they will easily be able to manipulate or scar an inexperienced 13 year old girl. It’s like the famous Groucho Marx quote “I don’t want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as members”. In this case, your daughter should never want to date a 20 year old guy who would want to date her.

Well said (as usual).

For the last time, they were doing group project and not dating. The rest, I don’t think it’s going anywhere so I will stop answering questions to this matter.

“likely not make it without something that makes her stand out, having no hooks and being an Asian girl. If the gap year turns away 7 ivys and most of good LACs who were not going to notice her anyway but make one interested in her, it may be a good thing.”

Yes, I called it. What makes you think the 8 Ivies are “the most” prestigious schools in the country? They are merely 8 among the best. PLEASE, I beg you, don’t be one of those stereotypical parents who is somehow convinced those 8 are magically superior. Other top colleges may be better suited for her to get a fine education and indulge her art. For example, WashU has an art school - that might be better for her than an Ivy League that has only “eh” art offerings.

RE: Gap year in HS
We hosted a German Student through Youth For Understanding and she was basically taking a gap year during HS…she took courses but they would not count for her Arbitur HS degree.

@Pizzagirl, read again. I said they are among the most and not the most prestigious. I even said I would prefer a lower ranking Ivy than higher ranking UC because they offer more scholarship and have more educational resources.
And we are not looking into art programs at U.S. colleges at the moment for their high focus on pedagogy, genED and applied arts.

@boppeer, Yes it would be similar in that sense. It will be a gap year and anything done during the year won’t be counted for high school degree. The program calls for 10~12 hours of workshop and lessons everyday, not leaving much time to study anyway.

" I even said I would prefer a lower ranking Ivy than higher ranking UC because they offer more scholarship and have more educational resources."

??? There is no such thing as an Ivy ranked lower than a higher-ranked UC.

“And we are not looking into art programs at U.S. colleges at the moment for their high focus on pedagogy, genED and applied arts.”

You don’t need to make that decision now. It is inappropriate for any 13 yo to be setting her future in stone like that or "looking into"college programs. You seem very unwilling to just let things unfold.

@Pizzagirl, ranking is subjective and depends on majors. For example, USNews lists UCB as #3 for ug engineering,
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/engineering-doctorate

and times higher education lists UCB above all but HYP.
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/2016/world-ranking#!/page/0/length/25/sort_by/rank_label/sort_order/asc/cols/rank_only

I won’t argue which ranking is better or if any ranking is justified. My point was that some UC Campus can be high ranked than some IVY. It wasn’t even that relevant to my main point anyway. The point was I love rich resources of IVY regardless of their rankings.

“at the moment” means it’s not set in the stone and I am flexible to change as situation changes. My strategy is making a plan with best predictions based on the current information and giving it the most preparation. And then making a few more backup plans to accommodate likely changes and give them some preparations too. She might well end up double majoring arts and physics at a U.S. university and she will be decently prepared for that too. It’s just not the current target to focus, as there are few other scenarios with higher probability.

What I am unwilling is being unprepared for things unfolding. That’s all.

I will PM you about our particular experiences but I do think I answered your main question. Yes, kids who are “outliers” and do things “outside the box” do indeed get the attention of admissions people at colleges, including elites.

One other thing: a double degree is different from a double major. It would seem your daughter would be a candidate for a double (dual) degree at some point. That would be a BA/BFA most likely. For example, Tufts and the Museum School. RISD and Brown. As I said, Harvard has increased its focus on applied arts, but does not, to my knowledge, offer a double degree. Most colleges will have study abroad programs as well. You might also look at schools like Bennington, Skidmore, Vassar, Sarah Lawrence that have an artistic bent with some independent work.

It is early for all this of course, but here are some links. I know you do a lot of research. But it sounds to me as if a double degree might serve your daughter well eventually, when she gets closer to that decision.

http://admissions.tufts.edu/academics/special-degree-paths/combined-degree-with-the-schoo/

http://risd.brown.edu/

http://ves.fas.harvard.edu/concentration-requirements

Here is an essay on music paths that might interest you, please read it if you can. I think it will apply to your daughter and art as well. : http://www.peabody.jhu.edu/conservatory/admissions/tips/doubledegree.html