<p>illegal drugs like ketamin (colourless drug) is used to get a mostly woman “high” so man could abuse them while their half unconsiousness, basicly used for rape.</p>
<p>sadly more then 20% of this drug is used for “rape”.</p>
<p>its not just alchohol guys.</p>
<p>We can all only do our best to make ourselves as difficult a target as possible. Sure, all males AND females COULD be raped or otherwise abused, but why be more vulnerable than necessary. </p>
<p>I’m not sure what your point is in post #15, Emma. Are we all supposed to know we could all be victims so just wait for the inevitable? Live in fear that we will be the next victims? Close our eyes? What? The measures I suggested are the only ones I am aware of–what do YOU propose rather than belittling my suggestions?</p>
<p>The 1 in 4 number comes from a 2000 Department of Justice report (known as the Fisher Report):</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf</a></p>
<p>It has since been superseded by a 2007 study:</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf[/url]”>http://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/grants/221153.pdf</a></p>
<p>(known as the Krebs study; note that Fisher signed onto this one as well, indicating that she believes the new numbers are the ones that should be relied upon).</p>
<p>Sexual assault groups tend to like to quote the earlier one, because the incidence is higher. But even still, the numbers are quite appalling.</p>
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<p>I was reading excerpts of the Bristol Palin memoir on Daily Beast on her “First Brush with Alcohol” and “Levi Takes Advantage of Her.” [Hint: they’re connected]. Every girl should read it as a page out of the playbook of some guys out there.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/21/bristol-palin-s-memoir-the-juiciest-excerpts.html[/url]”>http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/06/21/bristol-palin-s-memoir-the-juiciest-excerpts.html</a></p>
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<p>OP: I’m not surprised after finding the views of the parent and boys/men who considered girls as object. </p>
<p>If boys and their parent quantify having a girlfriend as a cost then what would you expect from such boys. These boys will try to recoup the cost and eventually won’t take a girl NO as an answer.</p>
<p>There was a big debate on another thread on this and I was surprised to see how many parent defended associating GF with cost as these girls are object and not human. They even tagged GF as low maintenance and high maintenance.</p>
<p>What can you expect from boys who quantify their girlfriends as a cost? At some point when the cost will become very high such boys will look for ROI. </p>
<p>It’s a sick mentality and blame lie to some extent with parenting too.</p>
<p>Whenever this subject comes up, I like to tell the story of the young lady in my Resident Advisor training, way back when I was in college, who referred to herself as a “potential rape survivor”. In other words, female. What a way to go through life, just waiting for your turn to be a rape victim! Excuse me, survivor.</p>
<p>mantori.suzuki: I think female have to be blamed too. Just look up the other thread where moms come to defend their boys who treat their GFs as cost.</p>
<p>It’s this mama boy mentality that add fuel to the fire. As they say there are mothers who are raising these beasts too.</p>
<p>It IS scary being female. Last week, I left work late, about 10:15 pm. I literally turned the lights off in the office and walked out to my car. The office is on the waterfront, in a dark part of town. I was really nervous. As I pulled out of the parking lot, I saw a guy JOGGING! No fear at all. I thought, “Wow, I cannot even imagine feeling secure enough to run here without a second thought.” Really sad (especially since I run myself).</p>
<p>ParentOfIvyHope:</p>
<p>No, sorry. I’m not going to defend the idea that boys paying for their dates with girls leads to date rape. I understand what you meanthat some boys will have an unreasonable expectation that a girl should “pay him back” in the form of sexbut that is irrational, disgusting behavior. I pay for my dates with my wife every week, and I don’t demand sex when we get home as “payback”. That’s ludicrous.</p>
<p>Maybe it’s a cultural thing. Maybe “sex in exchange for dinner” is normal where you come from. In America it’s not.</p>
<p>That being said, I believe it is okay to say “rape is bad” while also saying “women should be careful about where they go and what impression they give men”. But the same is true for men, and for people who walk down dark alleys with their wallets out, and for people point toy guns at police officers. At some point, stupid behavior will lead to bad consequences. But that doesn’t justify the consequences; it just explains them.</p>
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<p>Point is not that boys are paying for the date. I’ve paid on dates with DW when we were in college but I never contributed that as a cost of having DW as GF. Nor did my parent asked if my costs are escalating because I’ve a GF.</p>
<p>The notion that having a GF increase the cost or there is a cost associated with a GF is wrong. Boys and parent who believe it to be true are causing this behavior. </p>
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<p>Date rape is a reality in USA. Just go to any club and you will find this as a very obvious scene in clubs, boys think twice touching a girl who buys her own drink but consider it a free pass if they buy her a drink.</p>
<p>This clearly depict the mentaility of the boys. What do you think these boys will do if they happen to spend $50 on a movie/dinner date?</p>
<p>Wow, that’s interesting as to “who pays” for things AFTER you’re married. Since we’ve been married, it’s a matter of who pulls out payment first when H & I go out to things. As a practical matter, nearly all our assets are merged and we have joint accounts for most things, so who physically pays for anything is pretty moot.</p>
<p>I can’t imagine going around life thinking I’m a “potential rape survivor,” and think that would be a very uncomfortable mindset. I think there is a great difference between looking at anyone or anything and having whatever thoughts (we can’t always control) and whether any action is taken based on those thoughts.</p>
<p>I also prefer not to accept things (including drinks) from people I barely know, no matter the gender because of strings that may be attached and often are, whether spoken or coming up after-the-fact.</p>
<p>That is the bar culture. If a man offers to buy a woman a drink, and she accepts, then he is understood to be saying “I want to get to know you,” and she is saying, “okay”. Some men will construe “okay” as “I will have sex with you,” which is a big mistake, but the woman is also making a mistake if she continues to accept free drinks without ever thinking that maybe the man is expecting something in return. So yes, I agree that I should teach my daughter not to accept free drinks in a bar from a man whom she has no interest in. That’s reasonable.</p>
<p>But this does not apply to dinner and a movie, which is more traditional. Any man who thinks of this in the same way as buying drinks in a bar is socially inept and emotionally troubled.</p>
<p>Thanks for the links, mini. </p>
<p>I read through the second report quickly and one reason the stats in the second report are lower is that it did not include sex which occurred as the result of verbal or emotional coercion as rape; the first study did. We can disagree as to whether that constitutes rape. I’m not trying to argue the point right now–I’m just pointing out one reason the stats differ.</p>
<p>I think part of the problem is that rape prevention focuses too much on women and not enough on men. And, yes, I think wording is important. See this:</p>
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<p>Here the implication is that it is the female’s responsibility to convey to her “partner” that she doesn’t consent. What if we changed things around a bit and said that unless a woman conveys her consent, it IS rape? In other words, it’s not enough for a woman to keep wholly silent and impassive, a male should not proceed further UNLESS he actually gets a yes, verbally or by clear action. </p>
<p>Why is this important? Because a male and female involved in a moment of sexual arousal may honestly disagree as to whether the female HAS tried to convey that she doesn’t consent. She says “I tried to shove him off me.” He says she didn’t because he really didn’t understand that’s what she was trying to do. </p>
<p>There was a college that had a code of conduct which made males ask for consent every step of the way. It was ridiculed a lot, but, quite seriously, I’m not so sure it’s a bad idea.</p>
<p>I really think that every couple who is going to have sex should talk about it before they do. It may not be that romantic, but it’s important to be on the same page.</p>
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<p>Wow!, so now boys have this bar non-bar switch in their mind which they can flip.
Glad to know that your DD won’t accept a drinkk from a person in bar but will accept a movie/dinner from the person because outside the bar the person has flipped his mind switch and will somehow behave different.</p>
<p>I thought parent on CC can do better than that.</p>
<p>Just as we can’t legislate morality, we can’t instill basic social instincts via policy.</p>
<p>Anyway, what good is that policy when a woman can still say “I said no” and the man says “she said yes?”</p>
<p>Ultimately it comes down to not putting yourself in situations that can easily give rise to misunderstandings of this kind. Don’t get drunk and go someplace private with a person you don’t want to have sex with. Common sense, or so I used to think.</p>
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<p>When a boy invites my daughter for dinner and a movie and offers to pay, they generally will not be drunk and horny at the time the offer is made.</p>
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<p>Lots of flaws or for that sake it’s not even the right analogy.</p>
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<li>A boy and her GF don’t share assets and we are not talking about the living together ones.</li>
<li>You and your spouse as W and H don’t consider the other as a cost.</li>
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<p>When you don’t share assets and consider another person as a cost then you are quantifying the person.
Boys and parent who encourage those boys to consider their GF as cost are the actual cause of such behavior. So unless parent start teaching their boys to not consider their GF as object but as human this problem is not going to go away.</p>
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<p>Oh Ya!, must have forgotten that there is switch on the hormones and the boy will leave the switch with you.</p>
<p>Glad I was not educated in the same way …</p>
<p>Please don’t blame the alcohol as that doesn’t make a boy a beast. Education and upbringing makes a boy a beast. </p>
<p>A boy who will take advantage of a girl after offering a drink in a bar will take advantage of the girl after offering a movie/dinner outside bar.</p>
<p>Just don’t be naive I can say. I sympathize with your DD.</p>
<p>"I was date raped in high school, but did not realize it until I was in college and going through training to be an R.A.</p>
<p>The biggest way to protect against rape is to educate both males and females on what legally consititutes rape. I naively thought permitting a male to go “so far” and then asking to stop was being a tease and my fault if things continued to progress. Had I known the legal definition and statistics earlier I would have had the confidence to stand up for myself and fight back.</p>
<p>As writestuff says – Hammar the effects of alcohol and rape.</p>
<p>Hammar to sons that a drunk girl <em>can</em> claim date rape if male knows she is drunk and engages in sexual behavior." </p>
<p>you mean hammer? I personally think this story seems ridiculous. How you one know “know” they were raped? that makes no sense.</p>
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<p>Totally agree, one of the smartest comments so far.</p>