<p>But in the end, graduating from high school or college is an indicator that one has attained a certain educational level and has mastered a certain skill set. Remember the outrage about social promotion, when America realized that some of its high school graduates couldn’t read? </p>
<p>So now we’re uncompassionate if we expect a college graduate to be capable of writing an error-free paragraph or two? I remember when my S’s middle school principal made it mandatory that all students in his school be able to independently write 10 sentences of their own choosing without spelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors. His reasoning was that the kids one day would have to fill out job applications and such without Mom or Dad or a computer, and therefore need to learn language fundamentals and how to proof-read their own work.</p>
<p>So, the LD argument also doesn’t hold water with me. LD or not, a college graduate should be literate. And before you accuse me of being harsh, know that I have a special education child. (And I have always pushed for her to be tested without accommodations so that the result has meaning.) While of course I want her to graduate high school and perhaps college, I also want any degree she receives to signify about the same for her as for any other graduate. Why? Well, for one reason she actually needs high school-level skills to survive in our complicated world, and if she can’t master those skills then she requires ongoing intervention and assistance. Faking it just won’t work for very long before she’ll be exposed. Also, it is torture for a child to be put into a situation she is supposed to be able to handle with no problem, when in reality she lacks most of the necessary skills.</p>
<p>Dyslexia seems like a unique case to me, since the dyslexics I know have otherwise normal cognition and intellectual functioning. Proof-reading help seems like it would be necessary and acceptable in their situation, and would not be a case of someone masking a student’s language deficiencies.</p>
<p>Calmom, REALLY, they aren’t expected to go to other teacher without their own teacher’s ok. We have good friends who are professional musicians and they all adhere to this-- even the successful musicians whose children study with someone else. Calmom, the issue isn’t what the parent thinks is best. The issue is what the teacher thinks is best. In the same way, I haven’t attacked your editing of your daughter’s thesis because, as far as I can tell, it’s perfectly allowed by her school AND I have never heard of a problem with this at the PhD thesis level so it may be normal practice at the undergrad level, I don’t know. However, a number of professors and teachers have written in this thread that they want the students in their classes to hand in work that has not been edited by other people unless they’ve given permission. I have said repeatedly that unless specified, a student should ask a professor for clarification-- and people seem to find that objectionable. I am surprised that parents would think that it was ok to go ahead and give help (because it’s ok to use the writing center, because I do it at work, for whatever reason) when it is not ok with the prof or without clearing it with the prof. </p>
<p>timeless, I have one child with lds which significantly impact writing. I have not weighed in on that topic but when my kid was in 3rd grade, I did help him with writing per the teacher’s instructions. I included every draft and wrote exactly what assistance I had provided. So, if my kid had dictated the assignment, I would write “dictated to mom” on the top and kiddo would hand it in that way. If we had gone through certain revisions, I would include them all, with my comments clearly marked and stickies attached showing what I had done. I only did this in 3rd grade because it was the only grade in which it was allowed. My heart goes out to parents with ld kids. I know that over the years, I have spent a lot of money and a lot of hours helping my kid learn the skills for school-- but that has never meant reworking school work or editing a paper. That said, I have fought for my kid to get reasonable accommodations, at least on paper. I know there are places where schools don’t do that for kids or parents don’t know how to do it so I try not to lay judgment there-- but I do think sometimes there are solutions that we don’t think of.</p>
<p>That’s an 8th grade standard – and it is NOT why I as a writer seek feedback & critique, nor why my kids would. We are not talking about an “error-free” paragraph any more than I would expect the goal in an studio art class to be a matter of coloring between the lines. </p>
<p>Again – this is from my daughter’s college web site:</p>
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<p>You’re describing an end point that equates with the part that I see as a starting point. (In my family, we call it “first draft”).</p>
<p>To those who advocate editing or discussing a paper after a grade has been given – Have you ever taught writing? I was a TA at Cornell back in the 80s. I remember when my supervising prof came to observe. I had chosen some awkward snippets from a set of recently graded papers, and I put them on the board for the class to edit together. I remember my prof’s comment, something about how she “supposed” that kind of activity could “sometimes” be a “fairly useful post-mortem”. It was damning with very faint praise. Students have no engagement with a project when it is all done. Editing and polishing afterwards are not necessarily going to have much impact and will certainly not feel like the shaping of living, growing ideas and arguments. </p>
<p>I would have loved if those students – and others I taught at other universities – had gotten help from their parents or from anyone! That would have meant that they understood that writing wasn’t just about pushing out a first draft at 2 am and handing that in – “all done!” </p>
<p>It does not follow that a student who gets writing help cannot then go ahead and produce a page or two on their own. They do it in blue book tests all the time. They may in fact be more able to do so having absorbed the lessons from an editing session.</p>
<p>“They may in fact be more able to do so having absorbed the lessons from an editing session.”</p>
<p>Undoubtedly. My wife has helped my kids develop their writing capabilities far more than any teacher did, IMO. She writes better than most of them to start with, and only has one student, whose development as a writer she cares about. That’s probably why the kids all write better now than I do! Well two of them, but the baby is well on his way.</p>