<p>skrlvr, The line is if the students are expected to do the at-home work alone or not. My son had some assignments that he was free to use on-line or in-person help with and other assignments that he was expected to complete totally on his own. We’re one of those families that follows the academic rules; boring I suppose but it works for us.</p>
<p>Again, I’ve never had a professor, nor did any of my son’s syllabuses, ever say anything about how going to the writing center or your friend was okay but if it was a sibling, parent or child helping then they were in violation of the honor code.</p>
<p>Math Labs provide the exact same service as do Science centers (or whatever they are called on various campuses.)</p>
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<p>Not true. When my sister was editing my papers I was working, going to school, had a toddler and a husband who was often on deployment. I would send her my papers late at night and she would edit them before going to her classes in the morning. Then I would edit my paper before my son woke up (we lived on opposite coasts.) </p>
<p>It was similar when I took Algebra and Geology before my son was born but I was already married. I took early classes, worked until late afternoon and did my school work between dinner and bed. I suppose I could have driven to the campus from 7-9pm but it was a hell of a lot easier, and safer, to ask my husband. </p>
<p>Some students have the advantage of more time or money, some of living with people who are well versed in the area they are studying. </p>
<p>I’ve never considered myself a cheater. Never. I think it’s wholly unfair to level that charge at people who have never violated any honor code or professors syllabus.</p>
<p>I have to add that people should not assume that college writing centers will proofread for a student. I checked out the services provided at my son’s college writing center and it specifically noted that no proofreading would be provided. He attends a large public university so I was surprised.</p>
<p>timeless: my D has 2 learning disabilities. We’ve helped her learn to self advocate and she’s used a tutor during HS. As she’s entered college, we’ve reminded her about the math lab, the writing center, etc. Her school has a plethora of resources to help students succeed. If she has trouble we’ve talked her through ways that she can get to the next level. </p>
<p>I work in academia. Using resources available on campus to polish your work is much different than having parents overinvolved in daily life. For one thing the emotional component of “gee, I hope junior does this right” is absent although of course staff wants to see students succeed. And yes, of course, there are parents who are able to proofread and guide without interjecting their own style and content; I’m sure most of you would never dream of completely rewriting your kids work. </p>
<p>However, there are parents who will. And who call the universities/colleges/employers to intervene for their child. So where’s the dividing line?</p>
<p>"Again, I’ve never had a professor, nor did any of my son’s syllabuses, ever say anything about how going to the writing center or your friend was okay but if it was a sibling, parent or child helping then they were in violation of the honor code. "</p>
<p>That’s because most professors (except probably those that correct their own college student offspring’s work) assume that someone who’s in college wouldn’t be having Mommy and Daddy correct their work. That’s the reason why – when I was a professor – I never put that on my syllabus. I assumed that if a student had writing problems, they’d come to me (as many students did) or would use the writing center.</p>
<p>I actually encouraged students to have someone look over their assignments before turning them in. I explained that was a good way to learn proper grammar and to avoid making some errors that would hurt them big time when it came to grades and to their job prospects.</p>
<p>I taught journalism, and gave automatic Fs for any errors of fact, or spelling errors. This may seem draconian to you,people don’t get jobs in that field if they make any such errors. And as readers, all of you probably can relate to how much trust you can lose in a publication or article that contains errors.</p>
<p>While I wouldn’t have considered it cheating if a student had had Mom or Dad review their papers before turning them in, I would have thought the behavior reflected an immaturity and dependency that didn’t bode well for their future career prospects.</p>
<p>"I have to add that people should not assume that college writing centers will proofread for a student. I checked out the services provided at my son’s college writing center and it specifically noted that no proofreading would be provided. "</p>
<p>True. They won’t proofread, but they will teach students grammar that the student obviously doesn’t know, and then the student can correct their own errors and can avoid making those errors again.</p>
<p>I will add that in my mind there is a major distinction between proofreading and editing. Proofreading by anyone (writing center, family, neighbor, roommate) is fine in my book while editing starts to go down a slippery slope.</p>
<p>After many years of teaching law school, I finally learned to be ultra-specific about where the line is when it comes to graded assignments. Just saying “do your own writing” is not enough; many students seem to believe a family member is an extension of himself, or that proofreading is okay even if editing is not. The technical reason all this matters is that it is not fair to assign grades if students have unequal access to help. Equally important, though, is that every student should develop these crucial skills independently - even if “real life” later allows them to rely on expert assistance. Graded work is not the same as real life!</p>
<p>My D1 is probably one of the most mature, stable people I’ve ever met. She works hard for good grades and takes her classes very seriously. She works a part-time job as a manager of training at a retail establishment and does a 20-hour per week internship while attending class full-time. Having her say to me “mom, this is a really important paper, would you please take a peek befor I hit send” is not reflective of her maturity or work ethic. I have in the last couple of weeks been asked by two different men, with whom I do not work directly, to proofread important documents for them before they were sent out because both had been worked on for a long time and needed a look with fresh eyes. Both are successful partners in a top law firm who graduated from Ivy League law schools decades ago.</p>
<p>Depends on the situation. If students can go to a writing center to have things proofread beyond what Word might do for you, there’s no difference about whether a parent does it or not, if that parent has the expertise needed. </p>
<p>I am the family editor - in 2 languages - and frequently look at papers written by other family members. I read all my husband’s papers before publication as English is not his native language, although I also have to do it in his native language which I teach and because he has not used this language frequently for professional writing.</p>
<p>S1 needed a lot of help with papers, but I did not edit them myself. I spent a few all nighters with him (he lived at home) making him read his papers aloud to me. He caught most of the mistakes and I pointed out places where he could expand or where things were unclear. Believe me, it would have been far easier to write the paper myself. But that wouldn’t have done him any good. </p>
<p>With S2, he called me frequently all night on his first college paper and e-mailed me a draft to read, primarily because he had waited too long to start on it. That was the one and only time. </p>
<p>It’s all a matter of degree, expertise, and the nature of the assignment.</p>
<p>IMO, college is about LEARNING. I expect D to do all the work herself and get the appropriate grade. However, learning to use the college writing center, solicit feedback and proofreading, are also important skills. I am just not interested in doing it for her. I went to college (actually went 3 times). I’m done! Now it is her turn. If she can’t do this herself, then maybe she’s not college material.</p>
<p>We can all have different boundaries for our families. I’m sure there are plenty of things that other families do/allow that would shock me.</p>
<p>Like tango, my kids were different. My D1 would generally only ask me to take a look if she had worked on something for so long that she was afraid of anticipating, rather than reading the words on the page.</p>
<p>D2, as I said, is a pro and doesn’t need my help with the mechanics. If she asks me to look, it’s only to make sure she didn’t cross a line.</p>
<p>I know a guy whose mom edited all of his college papers. After college he tried teaching and his mom created his lesson plans and grades his student’s papers. He did little in class and was fired after two years because his students tested so poorly. He is now in a security job and has mom paying a lot of his bills so he doesn’t have to live within his means.</p>
<p>I proofread a boss’s SF171 (government job application) some years ago before she sent it off. Unfortunately, I missed at least one typo. She had had a job at Fort Rucker at one time and the woman who typed the application started the word fort and the second word with an F. Oops.</p>
<p>In high school, many kids are not getting the writing direction they need, so I think I should look at what the kids are writing.</p>
<p>"I have in the last couple of weeks been asked by two different men, with whom I do not work directly, to proofread important documents for them before they were sent out because both had been worked on for a long time and needed a look with fresh eyes. Both are successful partners in a top law firm who graduated from Ivy League law schools decades ago. "</p>
<p>I think that it’s a smart for virtually anyone --even professional editors – to have someone else look over their important work.</p>
<p>The reason that I don’t think it’s a good idea for college students’ to have their parents to look over their work is that I think that an important part of the college experience is to learn how to accomplish things independently of one’s parents. After all, parents won’t always be there.</p>
<p>My D, who occasionally asked me to look over papers, was the go-to in her house senior year to look at other people’s papers. Even the English majors (she wasn’t one.)</p>
<p>You get to a certain level, and you need expert eyes. Quite frankly, tutoring centers use students who often are not as good a writer as some students require; it does no good to get a second read from someone who doesn’t write as well as you do.</p>
<p>Similarly, at an Ivy, my S was stymied by his freshman year peer revision process (something very common in many colleges.) He’d spend the entire time trying to make sense of others’ writings, and they could offer nothing back (the prof agreed, and just asked him to be patient.) He mostly asked me to read stuff after it was turned in, but in the event he wished feedback, honestly, he was better off with me.</p>
<p>Again, honestly–I can proofread, react, question, point out, comment, etc better than almost any tutor or peer either of my kids might have encountered. A little arrogant, but true. Not because I’m Mommy; just because it happens to be the area in which I specialize.</p>
<p>(Incidentally, writing classes are not generally curved; one student’s grade has no bearing on another’s.)</p>
<p>It is just bizarre to think that exactly the same help is OK coming from other sources but not from a parent.</p>
<p>Many people have healthy intellectually equal relationships with their college age kids. The kid can edit (give feedback) on the parents’ writing and vice versa. A parent might be good at figuring out class schedules or degree requirements. The kid might be good at making sure the computer works. Everybody can learn from each other.</p>
<p>Writing the essay for someone else is clearly wrong (and hopefully your kid is bright enough that they would drop a grade or two if they let you anywhere near the actual content). In the end, plain cheating will be caught by in-class final exams.</p>
<p>To my mind, one of the big advantages of a LAC (say class size 15) over some other place (class size 150+), is that the professor will know what work is credible to have been written by which student.</p>
<p>Amen! Some kids still find mom and dad a good source when they solicit input on an important paper. Mine moved on from us when they got to college, but I am sure that they found someone when they felt they needed someone.</p>
<p>"It is just bizarre to think that exactly the same help is OK coming from other sources but not from a parent.
"</p>
<p>I don’t consider it cheating or unethical if a parent gives the same kind of help that a peer or the writing center would give. I think college is a time for young people to test their wings and a good way of allowing them to do this is for parents to step back and learn to use other resources. After all, we’re not going to be with them forever.</p>