10-20 AP tests possible? What do parents do in this case?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>What do parents think in this case?? </p>

<p>Hello everyone. Although this is my first post here, but I've glanced over the forum numerous times when my brother was using the computer. My brother and I used to share one computer and this is the forum that he's most addicted to. When I say "addicted", that is like any thing between 6-10 hours per day, closer to 10 hours/day on Saturdays and Sundays.</p>

<p>My brother is a 10th grader from a 3rd tier HS. He admired the people who claimed really high SAT scores and AP scores, and he's goal is to get to an Ivy League school. By the way, his school is a joke, they offer no honors classes and no AP classes . From reading the posts in the forum, he understood that in order to have a better shot at an Ivy League, he needed to take plenty of AP tests and a really high SAT score. </p>

<p>That's when our nightmare begins. I am sure there are some truly smart and hard working students out there and that their claims to high SAT and AP scores are real. But as you can see from the schedule of my brother, he probably spend more time doing his so called "research" online than actually studying anything. He began to bug me and my mother for the past few months to buy about 20 - 40 preparation books that he had researched online which other students claimed "helpful, an asset, must buy." These included SAT prep books, AP prep books (about 10-15 subjects), ACT prep books and so on. He wanted to have them all at the same time so He can have everything ready at the same time to start his study. He wanted to have all the real SAT tests and AP tests starting with the earliest to the present. He wanted to buy books that include a copy of the latest test even if it meant that by the time the 2007 edition of AP biology comes out in March, he would only have 2 months of study time because the test is in May. He's to gather all the books and start self-studying everything between this summer and end of his junior year. This is approximately in 13 month's time or even less. </p>

<p>I appalled to this idea because I believe you can only do so much at the same time. I believe better do one thing and get 100% than doing 10 things at the same time and get maybe 70%. I believe in planning ahead. But my brother does not think so and he no longer listens to me. My brother has a pest like personality sometimes, like if he doesn't get what he wants he would keep talking and talking about it until you give in. I don't give in but my mother always does. She couldn't stand him talking about the same thing over and over again and she would give in and give what he wants. She would even blame me for not helping my brother. I loathed this and I remembered one time during March he came to me and asked me to buy about 10 AP subject test prep books so he could take them in May. He didn't say he wanted to take all 10 subject tests, but he wanted to have the leisure of flipping through them so he could make a decision which was the easier test for him to study and take. I told him OK but I couldn't buy 10 at the same time but I will buy one which is AP psychology, if he finishes reading it within a reasonable period of time, I will buy him another one. I really just want to see how fast he could complete something in 2 months, because he said the test was in May. Any way, it took him exactly 2 months to finish study the book and he got a 3 from the self test, which was not bad. But he decided not to take the test because he didn't get a 5. Oh, also, in May he told me he went to school and asked if he could register to take the AP test. Well, it was too late to register. So, what was this?? </p>

<p>So, my mother has give it in to his request and let him start using her credit card to buy, at this point, about $500 worth of prep books. He would check all the sites like EBAY, Half.com, Amazon, to find the cheapest, rarest, highly-rated books. He said he needed to buy the books right now because it's so rare other people would get it before him even he didn't need them right now. He would email buyers regarding the condition of the books, pencil marks, how many real tests the book included. It's his day job. Some of the books have already been shipped to us and now they are all over his place. But he hasn't find the time to read them yet because he said he needs the rest of the books to start. The books that he wanted hasn't come yet. Oh, yes, the 10 AP subject test prep books that he wanted me to buy but I refused were obtained about 2 or 3 months ago because my mother let him and they are now sitting quietly and solemnly in the cabinet. </p>

<p>Just tell me one thing out there guys, can you possibly need all these books (at the same time) to achieve a high score on your subject tests? What would you do if you are planning to take 10 subject tests during your junior year? I am absolutely confused because I don't know if my brother wanted to take the tests or he just wanted the books? ?? So, you just buy the books and you are good?? I need some help and advise here. Thank you so much for your time, I am so sorry that I wrote so much but I really don't know how to deal with it.</p>

2

<p>since your brother is self studying, he should really be getting actual textbooks as the prep books are meant for review. However, there are some prep books that comprehensive enough to replace the textbook entirely (AMSCO for US History comes to mind). If you don't want to purchase prep books, look at your school library or local library and see if they have prep books available. </p>

<p>As for AP registration, you register with your school in March and pay $82 per test.</p>

<p>I would reccomend that he take exams for which he can score 3+ (mostly 4/5 though) because most colleges only offer credit for scores of 3 or above. If he takes 10 AP tests and gets 2's on them, then he will have basically wasted $820.</p>

3

<p>Your brother doesn't need AP tests to get into the top schools. Colleges evaluate the rigor of the HS course load that a student has taken within the CONTEXT of the student's high school and what was available to him. If your HS doesn't offer AP classes, it will not count against your brother that he didn't take them. As a point of reference, our HS barely had any AP classes when my kids attended. I have a child at an Ivy League school (her goal was never "Ivy" but I mention it only because it seems that is your brother's goal) and at the time of her application, she had taken one AP class/test, as that was all that was available to her (actually she was accelerated and normally at our HS, no juniors took that class). She took the hardest classes at our school. The fact that she had only one AP test score when she applied to college, did not matter. I don't honestly see a need for your brother to take any AP tests. He could challenge himself through acceleration, taking college classes, long distance classes, independent study, research, and the like, if his high school classes are not challenging enough. He doesn't need the AP exam scores to get into college. It would be different if his school had offered AP classes and he didn't take them. Your brother can focus his test prep on the SATs in junior year.</p>

4

<p>Not as a parent, but as a student---10-20AP tests is basically a ridiculous donation to the College Board Monopoly(nonprofit, so they claim <em>eyeroll</em>).</p>

<p>The feasibility of doing well in 10-20 in one year is eyebrow raising if he isn't take the corresponding courses at his school. It could probably be done if a student was homeschooled or incredibly smart, but I'm friends with the incredibly smart, and none of them see any reason to. I went to a school district that is very AP heavy and it was either AP or Regulars, so by the end of their high school careers it was not abnormal for the top achievers to have taken 15-17 AP courses, but this was spread over 4 years. But this was also coming from kids who were just good at testing and good at picking things up quickly----not paying attention in class + 3 hrs of review out of a review book the night before can = a 4 on the test for some of us. I have a friend who didn't take the AP Bio Class, but spread her reading of a review book across a month and scored a 5. But nobody is attempting this with 10 at once, nobody would want to...and most importantly:</p>

<p>Nobody needs to.</p>

<p>I've seen the kinds of kids who get into top schools from my high school. They were knowledgeable about the college process, but they didn't dedicate their lives to it----they were genuinely intelligent kids who liked to learn and liked to participate. In college, they continued to excel and they continued to really do a lot of things---even when it wasn't being judged anymore, because they did things they liked naturally. They were people with lives and personality who genuinely sparkled---not manufactured by a series of review books.</p>

5

<p>Your brother should focus on getting great grades in school. GPA and SAT scores count more than AP scores.</p>

6

<p>best thing to do is pick his best subjects and go from there, no need for 10-20 that is......not a good plan</p>

<p>colleges see the school and what is offered </p>

<p>a better bet is to maybe take a class or two at a local CC or state college if possible</p>

7

<p>Collegeboard is no longer a nonprofit organization. They changed their website to collegeboard.com a couple of years ago.</p>

8

<p>Thank you so much for your valuable insights. I really appreciate it. I guess, my other question is: is this healthy? He has spent the last couple of months finding the "right" books but they are really just collecting dust at this point. I don't know what he meant when he say "he will start studying when he's got all the books" since he's constantly buying. I absolutely agree with "justbreathe" that no one "needs" to do this. He likes math, so he can just go for math. Why wasting valuable time on something he does not even care about like "computer science."</p>

9

<p>Quite aside from whether this is a good strategy for getting into college,
I see two things going on here that seem contradictory, and bother me
a little bit.</p>

<p>The first thing is that you brother seems hugely ambitious, but almost
manic about it. I cannot judge whether or not this is healthy, but it
worries me just a little bit. On the other hand, you have a very conservative
outlook (doing just one thing, but insisting on 100%). We as a society
need both kinds of people, those with grand ideas and willing to risk,
and those who set very high standards and strive for true excellence.</p>

<p>You seem to think you brother has gone overboard with this, but your
parents encourage it. So maybe it is OK, and you should enjoy his
exuberance.</p>

<p>The contradictory thing is that your parents are not teaching your
brother the skills he will need to execute his wild and ambitious plans.
He needs planning skills, and needs them even more than if he was
a conservative type of person. Climbing Everest involves more than
buying hiking boots and a ticket to Tibet.</p>

<p>Also success builds on success. Why don't you help him by setting
up a practice schedule for him in one subject for the next month, by
offering to time him and grade for him, and do an SATII one week,
another SATII a week later, then the multiple choice part of an
AP exam the week after that, and a full AP exam at the end of the
month?</p>

<p>If, at the end of the month he can manage a 3 on the AP practice test,
I would say aim for studying another 2-5 tests on his own over the
course of the year. What's the worst that can happen? </p>

<p>There are more expensive hobbies, and there's certainly more destructive
ways to spend your time than trying to learn something.</p>

10

<p>I think 10-20 APs is way too many to be studying for by yourself in one year, and there is no need to do it. </p>

<p>If he wants to self-study for two or three tests, that is a different matter. It's always good to test yourself and study things that you enjoy.</p>

<p>I wouldn't recommend getting all the books or waiting until you have them all. The best thing to do is to go to the library and research there which subjects he wants to take, which text book(s) seem best, and which prep book(s) suit his individual learning style. Then he can look into buying just those. He should also start work before he has collected all the books he thinks he needs. It seems to me he is living in something of a dream world where when everything is perfect, he too will be perfect, but it is always easier to plan and dream than it is to do. The real sign of someone who is intelligent, and the thing that colleges are looking for, is doing the very best you can with what you have right now.</p>

11

<p>Here's a thought--he wants them that bad--maybe HE should buy them.</p>

12

<p>What I'm thinking: Unless he's a supergenius, he'll never even open most of those books, or else he'll finish the first few chapters of all, and that's it. It sounds like he's ambitious and yet scared that he will be pulled under the tide of academic underachieving. It sounds (just from my past experiences) that he is really unsure of himself and is trying to prove to himself that he is capable and up there with the best of the best. It seems like he is primarily motivated out of fear. Also, you're describing this as his day job. Does he realize he needs extracurriculars in order to get into these great schools?</p>

13

<p>Your post makes me feel very nervous and uncomfortable. It does not sound as if your brother is making healthy or reasoned decisions. The idea that your brother is spending hours and hours everyday obsessing over a hugely ambitious idea with no follow-through strikes me as very worrisome--not to mention spending $500 of his parents'. I don't know your brother, so I can't really judge, but I'd be concerned about his current mental state. This obsession does not seem healthy or normal. If you have similar feelings, speak to your parents about your concerns and try to get him an evaluation. </p>

<p>If this is relatively normal behavior for him and I'm reading the situation wrong, then I'd encourage him to take advantage of the academic opportunities he has available at school and participate in out-of-school or extra-curricular activities, such as a school club or volunteering. I'd also encourage him to look at less-selective schools that he would like. He may just be scared and nervous, but if he is only satisfied by the very top schools, I'd take that to be a cause for concern.</p>

14

<p>
[quote]
So, my mother has give it in to his request and let him start using her credit card to buy, at this point, about $500 worth of prep books.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Isn't this a bad idea? To give anyone your CC # is a bad idea right? Because they can just buy whatever they want online? All he has to do is memorize the #? $500 is insane. Hopefully, your mother can return these or sell them to someone else (a book store or something) to get some of the money back, because $500 is really crazy.</p>

15

<p>I agree with Coarranged's 2nd paragraph, but not the 1st para.</p>

<p>One of your brother's problems is that at a third-tier h.s. (territory I truly understand first-hand from a prior community), he has nobody to ask for perspective, including the overview that SoozieVt just gave him that he'd be looked at for how well he exercised the available resources offered by his h.s. As she says, he wouldn't be penalized if no AP courses are offered so he took none. On the other hand, he is finding a way to show some "grit" by reaching beyond the limits of his h.s. this way. </p>

<p>There's nothing wrong with doing AP's, only a question of time balance in his life right now. Is he doing this instead of,or in addition to, studying to "ace" his h.s. courses? Does he pursue EC's or is his only EC figuring out how to get into a better college than normal for your school? etc.</p>

<p>As for time spent on CC, it could work 2 ways. He could be misinterpreting the wonky kids who brag about their 800's and driving himself nuts, desperately trying to figure out how to give himself some edge over others elsewhere in the country. If many AP's is the only approach he's come up with, then he's badgering for study resources because he doesn't know what else to do to get himself up higher by a rung. </p>

<p>Or, he might be reading CC and figuring out a wider approach, which is very valuable time spent on CC. You don't know which meanings he's taking from time spent reading the many forums.</p>

<p>Actually you might have helped him by your post and parent responses, not to throw it up and say, "here, read this, i told you so.." but if he wouldn't be angry at you, let him read the posts you just received for a wider view of other ways to strengthen his chances.</p>

<p>On your brother's behalf, I'll say it's very hard when you're trying to pull yourself up and out of a situation, to have people tell you you're wasting your time. I bet it would be a nicer brother-sister relationship if you wished him well, cheered him on, don't resent how your parents spend on him (maybe he thinks you have too much of something else..). See if you and he can get onto the same page and help each other more. You'll even feel better if you let it go a bit.</p>

16

<p>There are people who are "collectors" by nature, and they have a lot of anxiety when they feel their collection is incomplete. </p>

<p>Some of this is within reasonable bounds of behavior, but your brother's strikes me as out of control. (I bet he has other collections lying around the house.) He has already demonstrated that he isn't following through and preparing for the tests that his collection is supposedly related to, so why not take the opportunity to teach him the cost of his collecting? There's no reason a boy with 5 free hours a day shouldn't be spending at least an hour a day doing household tasks in exchange for the type of money you've described. Indulging him by buying the books without charge is letting his collecting mania take over, instead of giving him a set of checks and balances. He needs to think, "Do I really want to clean out the basement on Saturday in order to buy this book?" </p>

<p>As you may have guessed, I have a family member with the same problem, but he keeps it in check and is an upstanding member of society. He prefers his collections to people, but that is his loss. Collecting is not fatal, but it can't be allowed to dominate the family, and I think your concern for him is showing in your post.</p>

17

<p>The thing is there are OTHER ways for this boy to "pull himself up" to show "grit" to reach beyond what is offered at the HS. </p>

<p>Before I get to that, however, let me again reiterate, that students from our rural unknown HS can and do get into top schools (someon this year is heading to Harvard, someone else to Brown, someone else to MIT), even though very few APs are offered (we do have Honors classes, however....and in my view, these are challenging). Colleges will not penalize a student for not having AP courses and scores if their HS doesn't offer them. </p>

<p>I see NO reason to take all those AP exams, on top of regular academics offered at school. There are other ways to show the student challenged himself. There is acceleration. There are independent studies (here these were for credit). There is taking local college classes. There are long distance courses (many at a college level). My kids did some of these things. Also, there already is the SAT and SAT Subject Tests. But then there are challenges beyond the classroom.....research, publishing, achievements in the arts or other interest areas. Internships. There are additional ways for a student to challenge himself beyond the classroom. </p>

<p>I see NO advantage to this student taking all these AP exams for courses not taught at the high school. Frankly, if I were a adcom, what it would say to me is "student did this to get into college." But if I saw other ways of challenging himself for the sake of academic and extracurricular challenges, in addition to exceling at school and achieving a great GPA and class rank, and doing well on standardized tests, it would say more to me than doing the AP exams outside of school. It would seem to show more genuine interest in learning experiences that were challenging, not taking more tests to try to get into college or to prove something. AP scores are not necessary to gain admission to top colleges. They are used more for placement or credit. As well, for students who actually took AP classes, the scores can verify if they learned the material more than simply the grade they got in the course. Someone who took an AP course but scored a 2 on the exam shows something that is not so positive. For those who don't have AP courses, I see no need to take the exams. I think this boy's efforts are being missplaced. I think he seems to think this is going to get him into college. Rather than thinking about what will get him into college, he should be engaged in challenging himself academically (if not challenged enough in class) and also in pursuits around his interest areas outsie academics.</p>

18

<p>If his school does not offer them, then it is not necessary to take them. They only expect you to have taken the most rigorous course load your school has to offer.</p>