<p>My daughter is a rising senior and interested in Music Ed/Flute programs in the Northeast. Have visited several schools and all boast of their 100% job placement. Could this really be true? I am guessing they include all part time work in this statistic. Does anyone know how realistic this claim is? We have heard this at NYU, BU, Ithaca, Hartt, Univ Delaware, Syracuse, Temple, Susquehana.....</p>
<p>Yep, pretty much the case. However what the schools don’t tell you is not all these students are offered positions that equate to full time. Many end up being hired by districts with positions that are .5, .75 FTE.</p>
<p>A lot depends on the schools, and the school’s reputation for producing sought after music educators. Those you name all are good schools for music ed.</p>
<p>Realizr now the economy may make things a bit more difficult. Music programs tend to be cut in budgetary crisis, so things can be “iffier”.</p>
<p>Son was a Hartt grad, BM 07 who started as a performance/ed dual major, but dropped the ed portion very late to concentrate on performance, his passion. All his music ed compatriots had job offers prior to graduating. Most were full time positions.</p>
<p>I’m still shaking my head as to why he did not complete the ed portion, but that’s just me.</p>
<p>While I can’t respond to the specific schools mentioned, I do find the statistic essentially plausible. </p>
<p>For starters, music ed usually has a higher calibre of student than other education/teacher training disciplines, so they stand a better chance of getting hired (overall they interview better, have better transcripts, better resumes etc. than the English and History teacher wannabes). </p>
<p>Second, because music ed is relatively demanding, the weaker students tend to drop out or switch majors.</p>
<p>Third, in a good program, music ed students do get a good chance to feel out the profession fairly early on and usually don’t remain in it unless they have a big passion for it or are a natural fit for it (my wife and sister started out in music ed and switched to performance after some student teaching). </p>
<p>You are wise to have some suspicion regarding the statistic, as you clearly do. In addition to the possible inclusion of part-time work, do the colleges define “job placement” to include any kind of job/work? or just teaching? or just K-12 school music teaching? </p>
<p>In my part of the world, many teaching graduates have difficulty finding employment in the geographic area they want, but I rarely ever hear of a music ed grad having difficulty finding employment. In fact, the problem (from a parent and educator’s perspective) is the reverse: too many of the music ed grads get jobs–even the very weak ones.</p>
<p>If you get the chance at a college, ask the person boasting of the 100%, what kinds of jobs they include in that statistic. Perhaps a more revealing statistic would be, “What percentage of music ed grads who want to teach school music obtain music-teaching positions upon graduation?”</p>
<p>Moopie 19 – thank you for asking the question – it was one that rattled around in the back of my brain. Looking forward to reading more answers.</p>
<p>Last year Crane boasted 110% rate, they had more requests than graduates.</p>
<p>^^^^^very cool! I’m hoping for something similar re Eastman in 4 years…</p>
<p>Son learned of quite a few music teaching positions available after he completed undergrad last year. We are in NJ.
He decided to continue on for masters.
Hope he finds opportunities open for him next May!</p>
<p>Just read this article in the Harford paper. Nice article but it jolts me back into reality. Music Ed is no longer a “shortage area”. 86 applications for a local HS band director job. Yikes.</p>
<p>[Music</a> Teacher: Music Teacher Finds Success During Tough Times - Courant.com](<a href=“http://www.courant.com/news/education/hc-mansfield-band-teacher-0829-20100828,0,5468146.story]Music”>http://www.courant.com/news/education/hc-mansfield-band-teacher-0829-20100828,0,5468146.story)</p>
<p>Yeah, our son doesn’t seem daunted about finding a job…
I guess confidence is a good thing?!</p>
<p>We’ll see next May!</p>
<p>a bit off topic here but, violindad, how was your wife and sister’s transition from music ed to performance? was it difficult to switch? what instrument did they play, and may i ask, which school did they attend?</p>
<p>When we visited Lawrence U in Wisconsin during the summer of 2009, they said that Music Ed grads were placed 100%. But that was before Glee got an Emmy.</p>
<p>UC2008: Both my wife and sister transferred to performance from music ed after just their first year which made it easier than it would have been later. They did student teaching for two or three weeks in May after the first year finals were finished, and both decided that classroom music teaching was not for them. </p>
<p>The switch was easy. They did not have to reaudition as the music school was familiar with their performance abilities. They lost very little in the way of academic credit and my sister graduated on time; my wife chose to spread out her last three years over four, so she took 5 years to complete her degree (but was able to use the extra time to do some private teaching and more performing gigs).</p>
<p>Both were vocal performance majors. Your question about instrument is important, because I think that it would be more difficult to transfer from music ed to performance for many other instruments in which the practice hours expectation of a performance major is much greater than for a vocal performance major (young voices just can’t do the 4 to 6 hours a day without damage). </p>
<p>Music ed and performance are very similar in first year (they usually have the same 1st year requirements for theory, musicianship, large ensemble, private lessons, music history, keyboard etc.). The second and subsequent years have considerably more specializing. Some music ed courses will not transfer into a performance degree as electives (and even if each individual course is eligible for transfer, there is a limit on the number that can be transferred). </p>
<p>Bottom line: While the switch into performance was easy because it suited their natural abilities better than classroom teaching, neither currently earns income from performing or from a music-related discipline and I think that they both somewhat regret not taking the more difficult road which would have allowed them to teach if they later wanted to. Teaching school music is not easy (I have done it and I believe I did it well, but notice that I write in the past tense–it is not easy!). Many people could never do it successfully and many personality types need to mature before they are capable of developing the ability to stand in front of a group of 35 assorted young people and motivate, inspire, discipline, and instruct them.</p>
<p>ConCernedDad: Will Glee’s Emmy increase Lawrence U’s Music Ed placement rate to 120% or will it just give school administrators more strategies on how to cut arts programs?:)</p>
<p>violindad, you’re very helpful. i see that your son got accepted to so many great schools! Such an accomplishment! I see that you are from Canada. I heard that in Canada it is possible to get second bachelor’s degree. From my previous post, <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/764277-music-performance-2nd-bachelor-degree.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/764277-music-performance-2nd-bachelor-degree.html</a></p>
<p>you can see I’m thinking about a second bachelor’s degree in violin performance. I switched to violin performance already and I will graduate with a BA, which is the only track offered. Do you think its still possible that I get a BM at another conservatory/university in America or Canada? I know it is probably an uncommon route (and maybe expensive) to take, but I feel that I want to stay in school longer.</p>
<p>UC2008, why wouldn’t you just go for a masters after the BA in violin performance?</p>
<p>UC2008: Yes, a BMus is possible (in Canada, at least) after a BA, but I agree with sopranomom92 that a master’s degree is probably a better route to consider. You could get a master’s at most schools as quickly or almost as quickly as the second bachelor’s degree and a master’s will just take you farther.</p>
<p>A BM is not normally required for admission to an M.Mus. program: you just need the playing chops (and can often make up any theory or music history deficiencies while in the master’s program).</p>
<p>You may also want to consider alternatives to a degree, if your intention is to focus more on your playing than on academics. For example, the Schulich School of Music at McGill offers three different diplomas (the last two of which are normally post-baccalaureate): Licentiate in Music (LMus), Artist Diploma (ADip), Graduate Diploma in Professional Performance (GDPP). Admission to the last of these is considerably more selective than to a regular master’s program.</p>
<p>violindad, thank you very much for your advice. I’ve heard great things about McGill University. It is one of the best- maybe the best university in Canada. I have also looked into University of Toronto; I have seen Jacques Israelivich in a masterclass- he always goes back to the basics. Good things about Canada- good health care, good environment, and lower out of state tuition!</p>
<p>how is the conservatory system in Canada? Quebec and Montreal come to mind… </p>
<p>as your son is very successful, have you ever posted about his entire music education experience? would you be willing to share his repertoire and technical “tactics”?</p>
<p>Many thanks to you, your posts have been encouraging and helpful</p>
<p>Yes, McGill is a good university and is considered to be among the best in Canada (along with U of T and UBC) and is usually ranked in the top 20 or 30 in the world (although I suspect many undergrads might rank it not as high, but it all depends on what one is looking for). The Schulich School is the largest and most comprehensive music school in Canada and one of the best (Glenn Gould School in Toronto is much more selective, but much smaller and focuses almost exclusively on performance). </p>
<p>I will pm you with other information. My son’s experience is so particular that it is unlikely to be helpful to many, and, of course, there are many, many other students related to this discussion board that have done as well or better (and I feel guilty about continuing the hijack of the thread).</p>
<p>George Mason University (in VA) has 100% placement with music ed in it’s school of music … however, they just lost their beloved flute professor (I was one of her students) so I don’t know anything on how the new professor is (we have a master class Friday)/what’s happening with this year’s class that auditions.</p>