<p>Also, is it possible that drugs/alcohol are in the picture?</p>
<p>Are you sure he’s ready to go back. In your shoes I think I might insist on taking a year off so he can grow up.</p>
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<p>Wow, I think it is too late for that. This is the time for a kick in the pants, not a pat on the head. I would be hard pressed to pay to send him back if you think he is not putting in his best effort. I agree with @mathmom and @sylvan8798 that a year off in a low paying job might be a good thing. Sounds like you read him the riot act before this semester, and he did not follow through. Now you need to have some backbone. You can’t go to office hours for him or police his study habits. He had a chance to show he could do that this semester, and didn’t do it.</p>
<p>I’d suggest a year or semester off if he can do it without losing his place in the program and his F/A. Make him work and save the money, and pay more of his own costs when he goes back. I’d tell him he has spent my nickel and wasted it, so now he has to earn his way back for a shot to even try again.</p>
<p>Just what I would do… I sure wouldn’t spend a dime on a “good time Charlie” kid who wasted my hard earned money.</p>
<p>Thank you all for the advice @sylvan8798 I have a question. Is there really a different strategy if he’s partying his day away than if he is being ineffective ? Either way he is choosing poorly, not identifying or using resources, and squandering opportunities. We will explore the Burger king year off reward program.might be just the ticket.</p>
<p>@bopper no question alcohol is not helping, how much drinking he does is hard to assess.</p>
<p>To @mathmom and @intparent As much as I want to protect him from himself and “demand” that he stay home and mature I worry that he will miss out on a major, though painful, teachable moment. Knowing the risk of continuing and failing should give him either intense motivation to succeed or sincere reason to be honest with himself about his abilities and commitment. Whatever he chooses, it will propel him toward maturity more than my intervention although I may need to tape my mouth shut.</p>
<p>I suggest he come home.
Retake the yr long sequence of ochem at a community college if his school permits, and take what classes he can take there to go full time.</p>
<p>Is it possible that there is a psychological component to this such as mild depression or ADD. Sometimes perceived hopelessness is demotivating and it spirals. </p>
<p>As an adult, he would have to recognize this, but perhaps after letting him know that you are there for emotional support no matter what, a heart-to-heart and an meeting with a psychiatrist for an eval and possible medication might be worthwhile. </p>
<p>This is a tough one. I am assuming your son is in an “auto admit” 6 yr PharmD school? My d is also in a 6 year program but not an auto admit so the motivation was to get in. I will say that my D definitely goes out and is a “good time Susie” BUT she has maintained a 3.9 GPA. So I do think you can do both in college. I would seriously consider a study skills class this summer. My D went to an outstanding HS and has often commented that her peers don’t study “effectively”. I worry about my son who will be in college in another year that goes to a different HS and hasn’t learned the same study skills. </p>
<p>And it isn’t a “teachable moment” for a parent to say that you warned him he would need to clean up his act, and he didn’t? And wasted your money on classes that he did not pass? And so he should spend a year earning money to pay you back for those classes before you will spring for another semester?</p>
<p>I am in the same position with DS1, who just completed his 2nd year of college (but he only has 36 hours). We knew he was too immature to go to college, but we were all getting ready to strangle each other…we needed to separate from him and vice versa. He had no skills, he was only 18…what else to do? Fortunately, money was not an issue and he was going to a state directional school. He crashed and burned the first semester and begged us to go back. We really had a tough time with that decision, but thought we can’t live with him and at least he’s around kids who are looking for a future and are the right type of people i want him to hang with. At home in some low minimum wage job, who will be his friends?..plus he might not go back to school. It’s these decisions that can change a life course.</p>
<p>Also…we thought that if they kick him out after the 2nd semester, he can NEVER blame us for ruining his life 
He did it all by himself. The 2nd semester I had his syllabus’s, made him work up a calendar of when his quizzes, tests, things he needed to get done. i was on the phone, email and texts with him pretty constantly that 2nd semester. He only took 12 hours, had to withdraw from one class and ended up with a 3.0 with the remaining 3…and it got him out of probation.</p>
<p>This year we let him go again…and let him sink or swim. He goes back and forth. He ended up with 1 D first semeter and failed a class this semester. he did well enough in his other classes, is NOT on probation.</p>
<p>I’ve seen a dramatic increase in maturity. There is no more teenage angst and anger. We have more adult conversations…once we actually sat and talked 2 hours about all sorts of things! He is just about where his peers were 2 years ago. Do we still get upset? Yes…but he takes more responsibility for those bad grades and seems more upset by them, and strives to do better. I can view his grades online and notice that this semester he went to every class! Compared to skipping tons of them the first year. He does have ADHD symptoms, but not classic ADD. I think he has something called Executive Functioning Disorder (SingerDAD…google it). Progressive not perfection. Sometime pulling them out of school isn’t the answer, even though that’s a gut reaction. And, I"m sorry, it’s always easy to say to do that with someone else’s kid.</p>
<p>SingerDad, I would bring up a different major, point out to him that he will be asked to take a leave if he can’t bring it up. If that happens…don’t despair, or let him think that’s the worst thing possible. You don’t want him to despair, either. My nephew got asked to leave Purdue after 3 years because he was on probation. He took a class or two at CC, and will apply for readmission.</p>
<p>It’s hard with kids that seem to flounder, I know…and it consumes us constantly. It seems that’s all we talk about. And isn’t it tiring to hear how successful everyone else’s kids are? We just wish he was “average”! Good luck, and feel free to vent away as I hear you loud and clear.</p>
<p>@ClassicRockerDad Truthfully he is not depressed at all or even seriously anxious. Actually he went on a little fishing trip with his buddies right after finals and doesn’t even know he netted two D’s yet. We told him about the O-chem “D” before he left. Unless his lack of concern is psychologically motivated (which I shouldn’t discount) I think his mental health is okay.</p>
<p>@ahsmuoh Yes he is in a 6 year program but it is different than the traditional “Pre-Pharm / Professional” program. Many of the Chem/ bio/math etc classes are geared toward the practice of Pharmacy. Pharmacy classes and internships have also been built into the first few years and the rigor, scope, and focus, of these classes is kicked up a notch. That said, you and I both know the direct admit is like the golden ticket in “Charlie and the Chocolate Factory”. .I had expected for him to be more deserving of the opportunity. I wish my S had the ability to either manage both a rollicking social life.and good grades, or prioritize his school work so as to actually learn and keep his grades at or above “B” level. Your D is proof that it is possible.Congratulations on her achievement. </p>
<p>@intparent there is no question that S’s actions have been.foolish.The teachable moment will play out when he no longer is allowed to go to the school he loves and be with his dear friends and instead lives at home and is treated like the child that he is behaving like…I also do agree with you perhaps the lack of “skin in the game” is a problem. We will be expecting him to participate more fully in the costs that he has incurred.since the money tree is not blooming. Still I am reticent to excoriate or humiliate him I just don’t see any purpose the natural consequences seem punishment enough. .</p>
<p>I’m not seeing too many natural consequences.</p>
<p>Why does a kid like this who seems to need some extra time to mature need to be in a 6 year program? If he’s just now developing the kind of time management skills which will allow him to have both a social life and pass his courses, why encourage him to be in a high-stakes program like this?</p>
<p>My thought would be to take a long walk with him when nobody has their phone or any other distractions, and ask HIM to talk to you about how he thinks the year went once he’s back home and has seen his grades, and has had time to process the D’s. He doesn’t want to disappoint you by telling you, “hey, this pharmacy thing- not going to happen” so he’s doing the next best thing- making sure it doesn’t happen via his academic performance.</p>
<p>Don’t wait for him to crash and burn next semester. Find out from HIM what he’s interested in doing. Micromanaging his every quiz and paper seems to be the right way to handle a 13 year old who is having trouble with time management and prioritization. But a college kid? Really?</p>
<p>Forget all this golden ticket language. What good is a golden ticket if it gives you admission to something you’re not interested in? So he’s on a fast track to a profession he doesn’t want to join- he either flunks out early on, or manages to make it through, and THEN he gets to figure out what he wants to do with his life.</p>
<p>Why not figure it out now- as an undergraduate- like the vast majority of “undecided” college Freshman??? Before he’s burned through the money and the program and has had the university tell him to find another place to hang out.</p>
<p>@conmama, your heartfelt post was touching and gave me hope. I hope your son experiences continued success and really appreciate your sharing.</p>
<p>Did you or your son feel you were overly involved during the the second semester when you had him report back to you regularly and shared specifics about classes, study experiences, and his academic progress etc ?</p>
<p>I’m not seeing a lot of hope in conmama’s post. Her son is still failing/almost failing and dropping courses. My kids knew I could pay for four years. </p>
<p>@blossom He really does love Pharm it was completely his choice to apply and attend this program. It was also our belief as parents as well as the colleges admissions committees that he was mature enough, academically capable, and committed enough, to complete the program. I completely understand your interpretation of his poor performance as out acting but I can assure you that isn’t the case. He thinks he’s bulletproof like many kids.</p>
<p>In no way do we want to micromanage his education. But, very much like a wayward employee who deserves and gets “in serviced” on how to do their job better.I feel there is an appropriate “Coaching” role to be played.</p>
<p>He “wants” to stay in the program, as in “wish” (upon a star) but does not do anything about it.
You can check and see if his university has substance free housing: if so, require he lives in it for a year if he wants you to you pay anything (as I assume you’re paying dearly). If he won’t, then tell him he can commute (if the distance isn’t commutable, tell him he’ll have to request a leave-of-absence for Fall semester and work commuting from home, and show he can responsibly hold a job working 40hours a week.) Then in the Spring he’d take 2 gen eds and the classes where he got D’s. Also require he waive FERPA rights, so you could call and ask about his results.
With unsatisfactory progress for the 2nd year, he may be uneligible for financial aid - juniors often need a 2.0 even to stay at school.
When he returns to school, require he scans and sends a copy of each syllabus and one week after each exam he sends you a pic of his grade. If he gets a C, he’s required to go to the tutoring center and send proof he went there (pic of the sign up sheet with the date, for instance).
Is that fun?
No. But you can’t trust him to do what’s good for him and at this rate he’ll be expelled from his program and his university. And since he’s already too advanced to go to community college, he’ll be stuck and unlikely to find a college willing to accept him after dismissal at the same level as the program he’s in right now.
As a parent above said
That concerns me. You’ve already tried the “coaching” approach and he’s already wasted a full semester (tens of thousands of dollars). Things have not improved: they have gotten worse.
If you don’t want to micromanage things for him, he really needs to take a leave of absence for a semester, work to make money and work on his study skills. However if he got into the special 6year program, he probably has good study skills (no one gets into these programs on genius alone, a part of hard work is necessary). The consequence you see is him losing financial aid (perhaps as early as this semester) and getting kicked out of college and stuck: getting kicked out probably seems unreal to him but the consequences are severe. Don’t let him do that to himself.</p>
<p>OP- I love the ballet but the Bolshoi won’t be recruiting me to become a prima ballerina anytime soon.</p>
<p>You can keep telling yourself that his academic performance is no reflection on his interest in pharmacy or his ability to manage the program. Or you can see that right now, he manages to do the things he IS interested in (trip with his friends, socializing) quite well. Your son may, in fact, have an abstract interest in becoming a pharmacist. But right now, he doesn’t actually have an interest in doing what needs to be done in order to become a pharmacist- like pass Organic chemistry.</p>
<p>So you can either micromanage the next year for him, get him back to appropriate academic standing, only to discover that your son has learned through the process of having you hold his hand and check up on him weekly to make sure he’s going to class that he’s no longer interested in Pharmacy… or you can cut to the chase and save yourselves some dough and much aggravation.</p>
<p>I know kids who have gotten D’s and F’s in foundational classes which were required for their intended majors or professional careers. Those kids are cancelling the trip with the buddies, camped out in the professor’s office asking if there’s a way they can take an incomplete and retake the final in three weeks. Those kids are asking the professors whose classes they did well in to write letters on their behalf to the Dean. Those kids are finding themselves tutors, voluntarily signing up for summer school or an online tutorial in those subjects. Those kids have already taken their semester’s worth of notes and found a grad student or TA to review the material with them.</p>
<p>Those kids are not going fishing with the boys, oblivious to the fact that they got a D. A kid who is determined to become a doctor or a pharmacist or a physician’s assistant knows going into it that Organic Chemistry is going to be the toughest but most important class that semester. A kid determined to become a mechanical engineer doesn’t walk out of his freshman physics final thinking he got an A when he got a D. A kid whose heart and soul is focused on becoming a symphony orchestra conductor doesn’t leave campus for a vacation until he or she has determined that they’ve got a passing grade in the required music theory class.</p>
<p>You can try and pull your son out of the hole, or you can admit that the only person who can fix this is your son. If and when he’s prepared to fix it- it’s fixable. But if not- you are treading water.</p>
<p>@mathmom I think going from crash and burn to 3.0 with help to 3.0 without help shows progress. MINE IS GOING EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE WAY !! </p>
<p>Earlier you also had a comment wondering what the natural consequences of his actions were The first one has already happened, add a year to the completion of his degree, more cost to student loans especially since there will be less financial aid for year 7. </p>
<p>Next, we are leaning toward keeping him home next school year, away from the freedom and friends he cherishes.</p>
<p>Lastly, and still most significantly, another bad semester and his eligibility for F/A will be revoked </p>
<p>@blossom BEST POST EVER totally true</p>
<p>@SingersDad…Going into the 2nd semester (1st year), he was so scared that we’d make him stay home that he would have said yes to anything. About half way thru the 2nd semester, I asked him if he wanted me to just quit helping him this way, and he said “no”, it did help him! That is the only semester I did that. I don’t consider getting another D and Failing another class is “failing” college (this to the other poster). He’s not on academic probation at school…so why on earth would I pull him out? To be honest…I played ALOT in college (graduated in 1982 for a flagship school). Never on probation, but graduated with a very humble 2.3. However…I’m a hell of hard worker and have been employed since graduation, up the ranks at a fortune 500 company. Thank god my parents decided not to yank me because my GPA wasn’t high. My company paid for my MBA when i was in my early 30’s and I only got one B. You don’t yank kids because they are struggling, you help them if you can. The natural consequence for that F is that he has to take that miserable Economics class again. And for the record…I flunked it too in 1980…took it again during the summer and got a B. </p>
<p>SingersDad son’s issues are different, and I think he has to let these natural consequences play out. I have to ask…have you had him tested for any learning disabilities or ADHD?</p>