Freshman year didn't go well!

Parents Forum
1

<p>DS did not do well academically this past year. An excellent student in high school, he struggled with classes at Georgia Tech. Now he finds himself on academic probation.</p>

<p>How have other parents approached this problem? Yelling, cajoling and threatening don't seem like a good option. How can we as parents be supportive of our son, but still indicate that this has got to cease! </p>

<p>I must admit I am at a loss hear. I have told him I would like a plan of action on what he is going to do. It is obvious he doen't know how to study for college (or at least Georgia Tech) finals. </p>

<p>Should I insist on seeing all grades during the semester? The course requirements? Or do I just set expectations and inform him of the consequences of not following them (coming home and attending a less prestigious/hard school). I am sure he is embarrased. He can't fully join his frat now (wonder if the frat was part of the problem). His girlfriend gets great grades and this lack of success will not endure him to her parents either.</p>

<p>Open to all suggestions.</p>

2

<p>why the probation?
Did he fail a class, have to drop a class, switch to audit?</p>

<p>Why will give more info into what should be his next steps.
In any case, I would suggest that he both work this summer ( although assuming he was going to anyway) and also take a course or two at the community college that will transfer to lighten his course load/ better prepare him for the fall.</p>

3

<p>This is not uncommon. My understanding is that Georgia Tech is really a hard school. Is he in engineering? My niece at Penn State had a horrible GPA freshman year (espec first semester) in engineering.
I also believe the time requirements of fraternities are greatly underestimated and actually misrepresented in many instances. I know this is the case at my son's school.<br>
I would give him another year to get the grades up and sort things out.</p>

4

<p>This may not be the situation in this case, but many times when a student is earning very poor grades, the problem is that the student hasn't chosen the right field of study. It may not be a signal to bear down and work harder, it may be a signal to switch majors (or if necessary switch colleges).</p>

5

<p>With the sad voice of experience I can say that sometimes freshman males DON'T KNOW what the problem is. Poor time management, poor study habits, not studying the right stuff, not taking good notes, not attending help sessions, not using study groups, etc., etc. etc. (I once failed a class in which I had a 94 average -- too many absences. Who knew?!?) If he was my son (which he isn't, so take this with a grain of salt) I'd ask for a 15 page report, double-spaced, analyzing what went wrong. Why? Because failure analysis is basic to engineering. JMHO. Good luck to both you and your S. As you've probably discovered, this isn't the end of the world.</p>

6

<p>
[quote]
His girlfriend gets great grades and this lack of success will not endure him to her parents either.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Does the g.f. attend the same school? Do you have a talking relationship with her to brainstorm a bit with her? He'd have to be there when you talk and pre-agree to talking 3-way like that...otherwise dont, because that;s going behind his back. </p>

<p>Maybe the g.f. has some constructive insights or suggestions, such as having study dates in the library for a few hours before they go off together socially. </p>

<p>I'm not sure why his girlfriends' parents have any vote in this matter at all, so they should be furthest from your mind. Surely you were just worrying aloud there, but I'd not load them onto his list of worries at this moment.</p>

7

<p>He received 2 F's - Calc 2 and Computer science. He did decide that physics was not really his major. He is not interested in being an Engineer, so he wants to switch to Public Policy.</p>

<p>I mentioned the girlfriend parents because I am more worried of pressure from them to haver her drop him. That would be just another distraction. Also, and just thinking out loud here, I don't want him to get down on himself. That would be counter productive.</p>

8

<p>There are probably four possible scenarios here:
1. Major just not a good fit, once he's taking classes he enjoys he'll be in better shape.<br>
2. Major not great fit but he has poor study habits and not ready for the rigors of college-- in which case next year might also be a struggle.
3. He's more than ready for college but chose not to apply himself; frat, GF, parties, social distractions-- just didn't put in the time or enough effort.
4. He has no idea what went wrong-- his grades were a surprise, he thought he was doing ok but finals were a disaster, etc.</p>

<p>If you can brainstorm with him on which of these it is, we (parents of boys, engineering colleges, too much party/not enough library types) would be more than happy to share with you about what worked and didn't with our kids. But bad grades alone don't help us help you.</p>

<p>My H and I have disliked some of our kids significant others before.... but as judgemental and awful as we are, we would NEVER hold a kids academic status against him as a BF! I might not be clamoring to hire the kid as a summer intern for my company, but it wouldn't change how I felt about him as a BF! So just try to ignore the GF factor for now... unless he fesses up that he's flunking classes because he's majoring in GF at college.</p>

9

<p>Each and every case is going to be different, but if people here tell their stories, you may be able to glean from them which applies to your kid. With three in various stages of college & grad school, I have heard many stories from them about their struggles at times and about friends who have problems, some serious.</p>

<p>I would avoid the yelling and threats, at least until you are sure that is what is needed ;)</p>

<p>Many kids who seem to be well-prepared for college face a variety of struggles- they lose confidence in the situations where they are over-faced; they only had As and are freaked out by a B or even a C and view themselves as a failure and give up on other classes; they party too much, they get into drugs; they go wild now that they have escaped the rules of home; they get depressed and don't know how to deal with it, and many many more situations.</p>

<p>Is the problem in every class or only certain topics- is he doing great in humanities and struggling with science- maybe he needs tutuoring?</p>

<p>Is he going to every class- definitely the freedom not to attend causes a serious issue for some kids.</p>

<p>Is it every class? Can he go talk to the profs? Did he talk to them during the year? Not asking for better grades, but asking where they see his weaknesses. Did he turn in all his assignments?</p>

<p>Sorry for being uninformed, but I assume GT is a public school with some high level of bureaocracy??? IF so, go to his major dept and find out if there is some sort of dept advisor for kids in trouble, it would be the office where he goes to talk about his probation requirements- there is usually a woman who has been there for many years, who is staff, not faculty and who has seen it all- she has seen it all!!! She knows things that most kids & parents don't, she can probably help your son figure out how to change things and make it better, IF he is ready to make those changes. I have found a great ability to cut through red tape at several different public schools by finding this person in the know and by proving you are serious and committed, not just walking through complaining about a grade, but really ready to make a change. I have seen 2-3 important exceptions made that made all the difference to the kid and their progress, yet had to be earned by some serious level of proof they were worthy of that staffer going above and beyond.</p>

<p>It takes a lot for a college kid to be willing to humble themselves and ask for actual help and then be mature enough to make changes. Has he hit his wall? Is he ready?</p>

<p>I would think that being open to helping would be good, though in some situations, where the kid needs tough love, you would be seen as being too soft. There is a lot ot consider and only you can discern your sons particular situation.</p>

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<p>All of the above can be a factor but first ask if he attended ALL of his classes. S2 and S3 just did not get to their classes. Road map to failure. Even if it is not required attendance, they think they are smart enough and no one cares if they are there. Unfortunately , too much is missed to succeed. </p>

<p>DD has a friend from GA Tech who did not do well, and she was a top IB diploma student in HS. Study skills were not an issue with her. She is back for summer school to try to bring GPA up with fewer distractions.</p>

11

<p>I wrote that before other posts were there- seeing 2 Fs indicates either a complete lack of understanding, which could happen with Calculus- I never knew after a calc exam if I had an A or an F, because you could think you understood things, and have a nasty surprise that you don't understand OR a lack of work habits- did he turn in his work? Did he take it seriously?</p>

<p>Is it too late to withdraw? Is he getting Fs or does he already have them? Can he retake those classes at home at a local CC over the summer? Does that fix his transcript at all?</p>

<p>How about not even choosing a new major, but rather taking GE classes and finding out which he loves, proving to himself he can succeed.</p>

12

<p>This is truly a worrisome situation, and unfortunately I speak from experience. If he were my child, I'd spend lots of time exploring with him exactly what happened. Did he sleep late and not attend classes; did he spend lots of time studying and preparing papers and still not do well; did he have great difficulties with just some of the work, and if so, which work and why? When you have a clear idea of what the problems are, you can tackle them.</p>

<p>As he is on academic probation, the Dean must have explained to him exactly what he needs to do to get off of probation. He and you must understand this and he must have a plan to bring up his grades. He must really be invested in this need for improvement in order to achieve it. I assume that you are assisting him with his college expenses, therefore you have a claim in how well he does. </p>

<p>It is difficult for a parent to set expectations for grades on individual assignments during a semester and impose consequences from afar. If he doesn't do what the school expects, they have a definite consequence, which is that they won't allow him to return. Many schools also have a requirement to maintain a certain gpa in your major in order to graduate. If he isn't fulfilling graduation requirements, he may not graduate, even if he doesn't flunk out. If he needs to go for a 5th year because of bad grades, and if you aren't able to swing that financially, he should know about that too. </p>

<p>Worst case scenario is that he goes back next year, doesn't improve and is barred from taking more classes, perhaps with a one-year off and show-the-school-how-you've-matured requirement. </p>

<p>I like the idea of taking a class or 2 at the local cc, with an eye to transfer in for credit, or just to give him some of his academic confidence back.</p>

<p>Finally, other possible reasons for a sudden drop in grades include excessive drug/alcohol use or the onset of mental illness. I truly hope that none of these are problems for your S.</p>

13

<p>I really appreciate all of the responses. They have already helped a good deal.</p>

<p>To answer some questions. He has changed his major, but still has to repeat the classes he failed. During the fall semester. He is not allowed to take them any where else.</p>

14

<p>We live in Ga and my D attended a magnet school which sends a lot of students to GaTech. It is a point of pride with them that their students (for the most part) pass Calculus at GaTech on the first try. Calculus at Tech is very difficult. </p>

<p>From what I can tell from students my D knows, it is not unusual to fail at least one class at Tech and to retake it. I think the intensity at Tech surprises a lot of kids, it's not just the study skills, it's also very difficult, large classes. I've heard stories of professors not being particularly helpful.</p>

<p>I think an honest discussion of what he thinks the problems were and how his friends did (as data points - not as a point of comparison). </p>

<p>Tech also has an office to help the students with learning how to adapt to Tech.</p>

15

<p>Hello whynotniwot,</p>

<p>For the gpa issue:
As I understand at gatech, there is a freshmen forgiveness type of policy where you can retake a course that you did not pass (c or above) in your freshmen year. This policy is only applicable for two classes taken during the first year. If he does pass the second time around, his transcript will show both his failing and passing grade, though the former will not contribute to his gpa.</p>

<p>I also did not pass computer science at tech this last semester, but let him know that he has the upper hand now in that class, and that it's not too late to swing back.</p>

<p>Here is the link to the grade substitution policy:
GT</a> Catalog : General Regulations : Grade substitutions</p>

<p>btw, did he have Smith?</p>

16

<p>Please don't be to stressed about this.</p>

<p>My friend's son just finished his freshman year in engineering at Georgia Tech in engineering and his grades, let's just say they were not what they were in high school. Georgia Tech is a hard school. Engineering is a hard major and he has learned that he is not destined to be an engineering major.</p>

<p>I do think that frats too many hours away from studying. If you are obligated to do something at your frat on a certain evening, saying you "have a big test the next morning and you need to study" is not acceptable to your frat brothers. If he were my kid, I would tell him that I would rather he keep his distance from the frat until he has had a successful term (passed all classes with a C or better). They are his friends, so you probably wouldn't really keep him "away" form them, but I certainly wouldn't pay any fraternity fees.</p>

17

<p>He and you need to get to the bottom of why his grades are low. He likely knows why and needs to admit it to you and needs to work up a plan to resolve it. He might not want to admit what's wrong but he needs to - especially if he's asking you to support him financially.</p>

<p>I wouldn't focus on difficulty of the courses at first since you stated he did well in HS. I'd focus on - </p>

<ul>
<li><p>Partying/drinking. This is especially true if he's involved in any way with frats. Is he out drinking and staying up all hours and thereby not studying and sleeping in instead of going to class?</p></li>
<li><p>Not studying. Even if not partying/drinking, is he consuming his time elsewhere, such as gaming, hanging out talking, watching sports, etc., rather than studying?</p></li>
<li><p>Not attending class. Even if not partying/drinking, is he sleeping in and skipping class? Lots of students do this but it doesn't work well for engineering/science/math students in particular.</p></li>
<li><p>Missed mid-terms. Did he miss some mid-terms or other major tests?</p></li>
</ul>

<p>Beyond the above, yes, some of these classes are likely difficult and there might be a curve to deal with but it sounds like there might well be something else going on. You need to figure out what it is and you have a right to know if you're paying for his education. This could be a wake-up for him though and he could well improve from this point forward. He should also switch out of CS (if that's what his major is) if he's not interested in it and is finding the material too difficult.</p>

18

<p>Both of the courses that gave your son difficulty require applying principles that one knows, in order to solve problems of a type that one has never seen prior to the exams. Some high schools provide a much better background in work of this type than others.</p>

<p>What I would recommend is that your son should obtain the high-school physics book written by the Physical Sciences Study Committee, a group of faculty headed by Jerrold Zacharias of MIT (quite a long time ago, but there have been multiple revised editions, and you can purchase it from Amazon, or possibly obtain it from a library near you). If he works through the entire book this summer, about a chapter per week, he will have an excellent understanding of how to convert basic principles into equations for particular situations. The PSSC Physics book includes many problems that do not have corresponding worked examples--that is one of its principal virtues, in preparation for university physics. Also, your son should find someone who actually understands physics to help him over any rough spots.</p>

<p>It's perfectly possible to bounce back, but it may require taking a quite different approach than your son has been accustomed to take, with his high-school courses.</p>

<p>Also, working on the physics will have excellent carry-over for calculus, because it helps to develop the same thinking style--even though PSSC physics is not calculus-based.</p>

<p>One other thought: Was the physics course electricity and magnetism? If so, it might require multi-variable calculus to really understand; then the advice above is still valid, but your son should seek advice about how to time the re-takes (if there's any option).</p>

19

<p>If on probation, he may be required to visit this office:</p>

<p>Georgia</a> Institute of Technology :: Academic Support</p>

<p>If not, maybe you can try to make attending at least X number of the Academic Success workshops a requirement of continuing to support his academic career at GT.</p>

<p>Less than full membership in the Frat may also help....although may make your son very unhappy....</p>

20

<p>Georgia Tech is also known for its sink-or-swim mentality. S may in fact be busting his tail and still not doing well. I have a friend who transferred into GT and lasted a quarter. Had always been an excellent student. Got a D in physics (his intended major) and decided to cut his losses. Graduated magna cum laude elsewhere, went to grad school.</p>

<p>A recommendation from other folks I know who survived GT: don't take a class that has a co-requisite that you're taking at the same time. All too often (and not just at GT), the calc you need to know to solve that physics pset will be taught two weeks after the pset is due.</p>

<p>Disclosure: My B flunked out after five quarters. My SIL's S graduated summa with a 3.98. The folks I know who did well had one EC (a GF, band, frat) and did very little else besides study.</p>