20 Years Military Experience – Looking for Pre-Med/Med School

College Search & Selection
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<p>I graduated from high school in 1991, and wasn’t exactly a stellar student, though I can’t imagine it makes a difference at this point. My GPA was 3.3 or so, SAT scores were 570/570, and my EC’s were sports related. Obviously, there is nothing overly impressive there.</p>

<p>It has always bothered me that I never completed my college degree, though it was not for lack of trying. It was due to a schedule that could best be described as similar to a firefighter’s. For nearly the entirety of my career, I was deployed to a remote missile facility at least 3 days, and sometimes up to 5 days a week. Half of that time, my toilet facility composed of a plastic bag lined cooler. That is not a complaint exactly. It’s my way of saying online courses were not always a viable option. Additionally, I have been stationed in Cheyenne, WY for 6 years. It’s hard to believe, but the closest 4 year university is 50 miles away. I have an interest in the sciences, which means I have to be present for classes and labs. That is not a commutable distance, if you are counting on taking classes during long lunch breaks. </p>

<p>Anyway, I have been taking classes consistently for years. Most of my course work has been a hodge-podge of different classes that I could work around my schedule, and in a few cases, work my schedule around. Due to frequent moves, I have attended several schools. They were Park University, University of Great Falls, University of Montana, University of Montana – Northern, University of Montana – COT, and Laramie County Community College. Again, there is nothing stellar there.</p>

<p>Math – Algebra, Pre-calc, Calc I, II
English – Eng I, II, Advanced Writing, Modern Lit
Sciences – Physics I, II, Biology I, II, Chem. I, II
Computers – Intro, Programming I, II, III, Networking I, Operating Systems I, CAD
Misc – Accounting, Ethics, Sociology, Economics and Law, Speech, Web Page Design (Art Credit)</p>

<p>Those courses add up to 89 credits. All told, I have around 130 credits. I don’t know my exact GPA, but I have earned 3 B’s: Chem. II, Calc II, and Ethics. The rest of my grades were A’s. Not great, but not bad considering I missed up to half of my lectures and half of my lab periods.</p>

<p>I also have an A.S. in Electrical and Mechanical Technology. It is the Community College of the Air Force degree related to my career field. It is a nationally accredited university, and they do not award grades A-F, therefore I do not have a GPA from that school. I realize that a CCAF diploma and a buck will barely get me a cheese burger. However, it should mean that I will transfer as a junior, with a strong math/science background, which I primarily earned outside that degree program.</p>

<p>Extracurricular activities – Well, my parents never financed a trip to Peru to shave goats, and I don’t play the tuba. However, I am a 20th Air Force award winner (1/12,000). In my spare time, I started a very successful search engine optimization company from my living room (boatloads of cash). I’m not captain of the basketball team. But, I spent many years supervising and training teenagers to tear down and put together remote nuclear missile silos, and got everyone home safe. Does that count for anything?</p>

<p>I am going to finish my B.S. in Microbiology, and I will be applying to med school. I am not especially concerned with getting into the Ivies, though my aunt is a post-doc at Yale, and it would be great to be near family. Barring that minor exception, I would like to stay in Mountain Standard Time, as far north as Colorado, or as far south as Texas. My wife wants to be near her family. She is currently a PhD candidate, and will graduate in 2011. If she can start working on her post-doc at a university with a strong research program in neurology, endocrinology, or reproductive biology, that would be a big plus. Finances aren’t an issue.</p>

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<p>I’m sure that there are many colleges that will accept you. Don’t worry about ECs, your military experience is enough to impress anyone.</p>

<p>At this point, I don’t think your high school grades will make a difference. It sounds like your various college grades are what will matter. Your grades sound fine.</p>

<p>You want to stay in Mountain Time Zone… I thought Texas was in Central Time zone.</p>

<p>It sounds like the states you’re considering in Mountain Time zone are Az, NM, Colo, Utah. Is that right? That doesn’t give a lot of options, but does give you some. </p>

<p>I’m confused. Where is your wife getting her PhD? Won’t she need to stay there?</p>

<p>She wants to be near family…which state is that?</p>

3

<p>She is working on her PhD at the University of Wyoming. Prior to starting her PhD, she was encouraged to move to a different university by her faculty advisor. This would increase her breadth of experience and future marketability. Unfortunately, she couldn’t move because I am stationed in Cheyenne, WY. </p>

<p>No, her advisor wasn’t looking to get rid of her =) </p>

<p>I will actually have to stay in the military for a year longer than I otherwise would, so that one of us is working, while the other is in school. She will graduate in Dec 2011, and will start looking for positions in Dec 2010. I would like to have a few schools in mind before she starts seriouly looking for her next position.</p>

<p>When I said we would like to stay in the MST time zone, it would be to be close to her parents, who live in Cheyenne, WY. I would have said “front-range”, but most people wouldn’t know where that is: Colorado, New Mexico, maybe Utah, Arizona, or Texas. Nebraska would be good for her, but a tough sell for me. I’m tired to being cold. She doesn’t want to live down the street for her parents, but a car day trip for holidays and birthdays would be great.</p>

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<p>You have an interesting background, obviously with lots of “life experience,” and I would think lots of schools whould be interested in you.</p>

<p>Perhaps as a way of understanding how the colleges might think about you as an applicant, you could make some appointments with various admissions people to feel them out. It would probably be better to know sooner rather than later if you lack something important or if they have any other concerns.</p>

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<p>Definitely look into Columbia GS: [General</a> Studies](<a href=“http://www.gs.columbia.edu/]General”>http://www.gs.columbia.edu/)
It was started to accommodate the veterans of WWII and still has strong commitment to serving students coming back from the military.</p>

<p>You should also look into their postbac program: [Postbaccalaureate</a> Premedical Program :: Columbia University](<a href=“http://www.columbia.edu/cu/gs/postbac/]Postbaccalaureate”>Columbia University | GS | Postbac Premed Program: Realize your future in medicine.)</p>

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<p>^Speaking of that, also look at Harvard Extension School:</p>

<p>[Degree</a> Programs: Harvard Extension School](<a href=“http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2009-10/programs/]Degree”>http://www.extension.harvard.edu/2009-10/programs/)</p>

<p>They have premed, too: [Health</a> Careers Program: Harvard Extension School](<a href=“http://www.extension.harvard.edu/hcp/default.jsp]Health”>http://www.extension.harvard.edu/hcp/default.jsp)</p>

<p>It’s open to the general public, and it’s a legit Harvard degree.</p>

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<p>Since he’ll be transferring as a junior, I don’t know how Ivies would work for him. Plus, they’re not within a day’s drive to Wyoming.</p>

<p>I realize that the online suggestion wouldn’t require relocation, but with his varied lower division credits, I would think he needs to have a campus experience for the last 2 years. I also think it would be beneficial for him to be pre-med at a school that has a med school to better his chances for acceptance.</p>

<p>I have a concern, but maybe it’s not a real concern. I imagine that you’re at least 38 years old, and you’re not going to be starting school for another 18 months, right? That will make you about 42 at the time of graduation with a BS.</p>

<p>Will it be hard to get accepted to med school at that point? Maybe not, I don’t know. Anyone know? I’m not saying it will be impossible, but will it be even harder?</p>

<p>Possible schools for pre-med, med school, and maybe post-doc for your wife.</p>

<p>U Colorado
U Oklahoma (not in Mtn time, but not too far.)
U Kansas</p>

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<p>Thanks you very much for pointing out those schools mom2collegekids. University of Denver looks like a logical choice. I will get in touch with the admissions office for more information on transferring my credits as soon as possible. Ideally, I will use my useless CCAF to transfer as a junior, and use the other credits I have earned to get into the course track I want, without having to retake classes. I’m sure there are plenty of college moms who have dealt with paying for a fifth or sixth year of school because all their child’s credits didn’t transfer. I do want to go on campus for my last 2 years. I’m not interested in the campus life from the perspective of a teenager, but there are aspects that I don’t want to miss. </p>

<p>I started the post looking for advice such as “Choose X over Y, because of Z”. Then, I ended up limiting myself to just a few schools due to geographic preference. So, basically, I guess I sort of answered my own question.</p>

<p>Columbia GS looks fantastic though. There aren’t many schools that advertise themselves as veteran friendly. I have always found it humorous how colleges tend to look at the football team captain as a future leader. I’m not saying an 18 year old can’t be a leader, but I’d put more faith in a 22 year old who makes true life-death leadership decisions on a daily basis. Anyway, I will save the SAT vs. DOA discussion for another thread. </p>

<p>As far as age, I’m 36 now and will still be 38 when I retire. It would take two years to finish my B.S., and I would graduate med school at 44. From the Harvard website: “HMS complies with Federal and State Law prohibiting discrimination against any applicant or enrolled student on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, sexual preference, age, or handicap.” I had heard there was an open policy of age discrimination in the past, but it is illegal today. Besides, graduating at 44 still gives me at least 20 productive years in the field, god willing, more than that.</p>

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<p>Just to throw it out there – I have an old college friend, a fellow Econ major, who decided to go to Med School in his 30s – as an Econ major this meant going back & taking the core UG science courses before applying to med school.</p>

<p>My friend wouldn’t have done it any other way. Needed the time to “grow up” and explore various careers. The only downside is large debt and putting off having kids. At 42 he is now settling & is a proud Daddy. He can’t afford the things his fellow doctors can (house, car, etc) and reckons he’ll get his debts paid off in time to incur his kid’s college debts. 20-30 years working in a field he loves is worth it to him!</p>

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<p>Ahhh…I thought you already had your 20 years…hence the age 38 comment. Yes, you’ll be 44 at the time you end med school, but you’ll still have a few years of training after that for your specialty… but, if it all works out then you’ll be fine. </p>

<p>As an alternative, have you considered the Physicians Asst ¶ route. Less education (you’d be done after about 4 years) and would immediately be making well over 6 figures. PA’s examine, diagnose, and write Rx. I believe there’s also a Surgical Physicians Assts (SPA). Both are in demand, pay well, and I don’t think you have to deal with pricey malpractice insurance, office costs, etc. PAs are employed by hospitals and doctors, so no overhead costs.</p>

<p>Yes, UDenver sounds good.</p>

<p>You mention that money isn’t an issue. Do you mean for undergrad because of GI Bill? Will you have to borrow for med school?</p>

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<p>I am afraid to tell you that it is extremely unlikely that you will be successful in your plan of action. Your HS grades are not important at this time but your SAT scores suggest that you are not very good at standardized tests. This does not bode well for your future MCAT performance. Test taking skills also seem to start some decline in one’s thirties. Your grades are good but they were obtained at less competitive schools. While you may be a good NCO, your background, while unusual for medical school application, does not strike me as one that will give you much of an advantage for medical school application. While schools may have a policy of not discriminating, your age will be a factor. AMCAS data does show a decrease in admissions rates with age, even at 29. This might be due to lesser grades and MCAT scores but I do not think this is the sole reason. The few 40ish medical students I have met have mostly been people with doctorates in related fields. You talk about medical school at Yale but I recall no one similar to you in my days in New Haven. Everyone I knew at Yale had an Ivy background or came from other highly selective institutions. The older students were in their early 30’s and all had some sort of advanced degree. You are not a serious applicant to a research medical school.
Students who are not the most competitive candidates apply to a lot of schools everywhere. You do not have the luxury of geographic preference. I think your chances of admission to a US allopathic medical school are very low. I would imagine that your possibilities for a DO would be higher. Your best chances would probably be in the islands or Mexico.<br>
An alternative would be to pursue training to be a PA or NP.
You would have a good chance of doing this in a decent location for you with much less time and money.
I am not saying that what you propose is impossible, just unlikely. If you do decide to pursue a US MD I would try to do your last two years at the most well regarded University you can get into and do extremely well. You will also need good MCAT scores. I would think 30+ would be the minimum to get you considered. Your state residency will be very important and you might consider doing your last 2 years of college in a state where the medical school(s) are less competitive. Obtain residency in that state. Apply to your in state medical schools and a lot of reasonable private medical schools.
I wish you the best of luck.</p>

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<p>I don’t know much about medical school admissions, but have to disagree with the assertion that test taking skills decline in one’s thirties. Wasn’t the case for me (SAT was 650/620 and GRE, in my thirties, 780/650). Also, AFAIK the MCAT is more a test of learned knowledge than the SAT, which is, at least in theory, an aptitude test. </p>

<p>OP could apply to several medical schools and also DO, NP, and PA as a backup. I believe more medical schools are accepting applicants with nontraditional backgrounds, especially if they are interested in primary care.</p>

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<p>A recent NY Times article noted that Columbia has done very well by its many vets who students. And the NYC area should offer your wife a lot of options. Yes, it will be a culture shock in terms of size, etc, but it could be a wonderful experience.</p>

<p>Best of luck</p>

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<p>“My wife wants to be near her family. She is currently a PhD candidate, and will graduate in 2011. If she can start working on her post-doc at a university with a strong research program in neurology, endocrinology, or reproductive biology, that would be a big plus.”</p>

<p>It looks to me like you are facing the “two body problem”. Which is more important, your degree program or her post-doc? If you follow her, you will have in-state residence. Also, just about any university with post-doc opportunities in her field should have a decent undergraduate program in your field.</p>

<p>Right now she’d like to be closer to her family, but her best post-doc options might be further away. For example, if she were to pursue a post-doc at the NIH, you would have the options of UMD-College Park, UM-University College at Shady Grove (biotech programs), and all the other DC Metro area universities. UMUC is very generous with transfer credits, and may be a particularly good option for you if you end up in this area.</p>

<p>Have you taken this question to the Pre-Med sub forum in the Medical School Forum? The folks there may have more good ideas for you. Click on “Discussion Home” in the upper left of this screen and scroll down to find it.</p>

<p>Wishing you all the best!</p>