2012-2013 Med school applicants and their parents

<p>I have another question for all of you knowledgeable folks:</p>

<p>One of my nephews is a freshman in college, planning on med school in the future. No major chosen yet–it could be a science major, it could as easily be anthropology or linguistics, areas he is exploring this year.</p>

<p>He is doing well this semester, taking the usual chem and bio for pre-meds. He is thinking of staying on campus this summer as he lives in an area with few real summer opportunities. He is thinking of taking a summer Spanish language intensive sequence that is offered on campus (12 credit hours) with a heavy emphasis on oral language skills, and also volunteering at a medical clinic in a Hispanic neighborhood.</p>

<p>These are things he really wants to do. His other thought is that this might free him up to lighten his schedule next year when he plans on taking organic chemistry and physics. He plans on taking both of these classes as well as a class in anthropology and/or linguistics.</p>

<p>He came to college with a slew of AP’s, but is not taking the credits other than in English and history/social sciences.</p>

<p>Do you have any thoughts or advice I can give him?</p>

<p>boysx3 - you have listed what he does. what type of advice are you trying to give, i.e., classes to take, activities to pursue or if he is doing something now he should not be doing…</p>

<p>MCAT2 - I think the person I heard of who got a partial this year is in the 40 or 41 range + 4.0.</p>

<p>texaspg, I think the person I heard of who got waitlisted (and withdrew) by Columbia P & S (its med school) was 4.0/40 from Baylor University (according to what he posted on SDN.) Another student with 4.0/32 from UT El Paso got accepted with quite significant free money to the same med school in the same year. The latter more likely came from a disadvantaged background though. So the same GPA does not mean the same thing to med schools, which tend to compare an applicant against the pool of applicants of similar background.</p>

<p>I think the person from Baylor U. headed north (Chicago, admitted with some free money) instead of heading to north east coast in the end.</p>

<p>What i tried to say is that 4.0/40 could land you a school with some free money, but could also get you waitlisted or rejected by plenty of other comparable schools, especially those at a “hot” location.</p>

<p>Another California applicant with 3.95+/40 from an ivy that we heard of got into a top med school at a “hot” location in California, with no money. He did not get into any school elsewhere, hot location or not, for some unknown reason.</p>

<p>Yet another California applicant with 3.9+/37 posted that only after he had begged, he got an interview invite at a single med school in California (likely Irvine?) He attended a top med school in NE in the end. Lesson here: Do not head to west coast, esp. when you are an ORM. (The last two cases are ORMs.)</p>

<p>texaspg–you’re right, I forgot to ask his question! He is wondering if it will be held against him if he takes somewhat lighter academic loads the semesters he is taking physics and organic chem simultaneously, for example taking 12 hours instead of the usual 15 or 16? Or maybe balancing the load by taking those classes with some lighter electives that he has always wanted to take (for example, he has always wanted to take a Greek Mythology class).</p>

<p>boysx3 - As long he fulfills his requirements for medical school by taking the classes they require, it should not matter what else he does including what major he wants to do in college or how much he takes on semester to semester. </p>

<p>At least that is what I think but someone here may know more.</p>

<p>If 12 still counts as “full time,” then I think he should be fine.</p>

<p>I think Greek Mythology is a great idea. Another thing to explore is whether his school offers classes for credit that don’t really require a lot of “class” time–eg at my undergrad, 3 credit hour service learning classes typically involved 1h/wk lecture and 3-4h/wk volunteering at a community agency of your choice. Our career center has 1-3 credit hour classes about anything ranging from how to use the library and do academic research to how to develop solid study skills to how to write a resume and apply for jobs. The honors college offers seminar classes ranging from the science of baseball to the religious underpinnings of Harry Potter to positive psychology techniques. I’m sure there’s a bunch more, these were just the first ones I thought of.</p>

<p>If he’s worried about dipping below his normal courseload and has some wiggle room in his schedule for fun electives, why not see what else is out there?</p>

<p>Remind him, too, not to assume those non STEM classes are easy; it is not uncommon to end up with a B+/A- in a class like that to which the student did not give enough respect. Anything less than an A is a drag on your GPA</p>

<p>^ One constant concern of one of DS’s classmates was actually in his grades in non-STEM classes, rather than STEM-classes. This is because he is a “science jock” (borrowed a term recently used by curm) while there are too many students big in humanity at his school. He said to DS that some of the classmates in his humanity classes could write papers in humanity-like classes better in high school than him in college. (He was not that bad as he was the very top student from his high school albeit not a magnet/high achieving high school – this could be the source of the problem.)</p>

<p>A few years ago, a CCer posted that his science GPA at a well-known LAC was 3.9, but his non-science GPA was like about 3.0. I suspect that many top LACs (to a less extent, many ivies) have more students who have excellent skills needed for the humanity classes before college.</p>

<p>BTW, I think private high schools emphasize writing more than public high schools. This is because they can afford to due to smaller classes. Heck…many teachers in DS’s high school even asked the students to grade most of their work. Of course, multiple-choice tests are easier to grade than papers. As such, quite many students from public high school may have some “adjustment” to do early in their college career because there are more writings (and speaking in the class) at a smaller college.</p>

<p>I would nervous about twelve hours if the university norm is 15-17.</p>

<p>curm, that’s what he is worried about. I think he may go for 14 hours, with two 4-credit science classes, and then two 3-credit electives that he will enjoy and can do well in. He really wants to keep his GPA sky high.</p>

<p>Do you see any problems associated with him taking in language requirement in the big lump over the summer? He took Latin and Hebrew in high school but did not take the AP exams in those subjects. He figures that he would like to learn a more useful language. He would love to be an emergency room doc and thinks Spanish would be very useful.</p>

<p>^D1 has used her Spanish a lot in clinics and and working with uninsured patients, it’s been a great asset. She wished she knew Chinese as well!</p>

<p>I am a fan of foreign languages and Spanish in particular. My kid did a total immersion summer course.</p>

<p>They do not need to take 12 hrs. Otherwise, his plan with focus on Spanish is great. My D. took only one semester of college Spanish, but the class was one of the best in her whole UG experience and she ended up speaking after that and it opened additional opportunity at Med. School which she took advantage of. Anyway, there is nothing special about taking Orgo and Physics at the same time. While Orgo is hard and very time consuming, Physics is on a harder side, but since it does not require much memorization, it is actually a good balance. My D. tried hard to take only 2 hard classes and the balance of easier classes.<br>
He will need lighter schedule in junior year (I would say no more than 17 hours) to have time to prep. for MCAT. And he will need light schedule of no more than 15-16 hours in senior year because of Med. School interviews. There is no reason to have light schedule in sophomore year. GPA of 4.0 is very possible with all of that and actually is not that unusual. Frnakly, if this is not possible, then the question is an ability to keep it up in Med. School. No matter how much you take in UG, in Med. School it will be much much more, according to my D., the amount of material is simply is not comparable, they exist in a different dimension systems. So, might as well get used to it.</p>

<p>Miami, the Spanish program my nephew is looking at on his campus is two sequential 6-credit classes over the two summer terms–so 12 hours, which would also fulfill the university’s language requirement. He also is taking advantage of 16 hours of AP credit for other gen ed requirements, but not any for the sciences or calculus, because he wanted to take those courses in college. He took 17 credits this semester. So after this summer he will have the credits to have a bit of flexibility in his scheduling.</p>

<p>I will definitely pass on to my nephew the advice to plan his schedule to leave time for MCAT prep and med school interviews. Right now he just wants to make sure he gets in all the pre-med requirements while figuring out which major to choose.</p>

<p>Most colleges advocate taking the required premed requirements from the college irrespective of AP credits since some medical schools don’t accept the AP credits to fulfill the required classes. So Math, Physics, Chemistry and English - the minimum requirements should be from college transcript.</p>

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<p>This is not true for any of the schools I’ve researched (most top privates and publics). Also, there are very few schools left that have any problem with AP credit/placement. Even some of the Cals are changing their policy. Retaking classes where you scored a 5 on the AP exam, is a waste of time and resources. I started UG with over 50 AP credits and used them all. Every MS admin/adcom with whom I’ve discussed this, has approved. </p>

<p>This is from Yale Medical and is typical:

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<p>^are you a medical student and if so how many schools have you applied to? Yale is just one school with 120 seats.</p>

<p>[Stanford</a> Premedical Association Classes](<a href=“http://www.stanford.edu/group/spa/cgi-bin/wp/?page_id=131]Stanford”>http://www.stanford.edu/group/spa/cgi-bin/wp/?page_id=131)</p>

<p>Medical schools are not consistent with how they view AP credit. We recommend you take an additional course at the university level even if you have AP units in math or physics. Please refer to the MSAR guide for information about all U.S. and Canadian medical schools.</p>

<p>^ I would appear that Stanford agrees with Yale. Do you read it differently?</p>

<p>How do they agree? The premed association is recommending students to make sure they take classes at Stanford irrespective of whether they have AP credits.</p>

<p>"Medical schools are not consistent with how they view AP credit. We recommend you take an additional course at the university level even if you have AP units "</p>

<p>^ The use of the word “additional” is inconsistent with your interpretation. What they are simply saying is what everyone I’ve discussed this with has said. If you are using AP credit and/or placement, then take at least one additional higher level course in the same subject. (the same suggestion Yale makes)</p>