<p>no. I have a kid at stanford and I know what it means. </p>
<p>Stanford does not give credit to biology and very little for chemistry and so they have left it out. If my kid wanted to ignore math or physics, she has enough credits to not take any and fulfill the premed requirements. What they are saying is dont use AP credits to fulfill the requirements because it will be too late do anything if some school you are applying to does not accept them. Take the number of classes needed in college to fulfill whatever is needed.</p>
<p>It is not relevant what level classes as long as it is two years of chemistry, one year of math and one year of biology is how they are phrasing it.</p>
<p>Different med schools could have a different written policy (and arguably, it may have some unwritten policy as well.)</p>
<p>I read a story about a student with an engineering degree who applied to a research med school and had taken mininum number of BCPM classes (except maths.) Even though he had fulfilled all the requirements according to the written policy, he said he was grilled by the interviewer for not having solid preparation in bio and chem areas. He got dinged by the unwritten rule that was arbitrarily adopted by this interviewer.</p>
<p>Regarding using AP credits to fulfill the requirement, the school could bend the unwritten rule, but it could choose not to. This mostly depends on whether you have demonstrated a strong achievement in the subject where you use the AP credits. If you are a chemistry major and have had 4.0 in all chemistry classes for your major (which are a lot) you took, they will likely not question your motive for skipping the introductory chem classes. If you use AP credits to skip some classes in your weak area in the eyes of adcom (in their arbitrary judgment), they would not “buy it” but you as an applicant will never know.</p>
<p>California med schools are picky. That may be the reason why they tend to not bend the rule (especially many of med school in California.) All premeds know (and adcoms would likely know as well) that, when all the prereq classes you take are “electives”, it is hard to compare you against other premeds who take standard prereqs. (Some adcoms may not care, so many premeds play the game; a popular “loophole” is to get as many “research credits” as possible — Because of this loophole, many self-respecting colleges crack down this practices by limiting the number of research credits you can get.)</p>
<p>I think BDM once mentioned that it is actually the first few premed classes that are especially “hard” (to make sure you will get A’s.) Also, another CCer posted that, if a premed has less desirable grades, more often than not it is because of “making mistakes” in the introductory classes. Thus, one gue from Stanford/ucsf wrote an article to encourage the student to take classes not in the standard sequence. (I think this is like taking advantage of not-so-apparent loopholes to me.)</p>
<p>Hmmm…I thought the class size of Yale School of Medicine, for MD only program, is 100, not 120 (unless you include those Md/PhDs?) I think the class sizes ofDuke and Standard tend to be similar/smaller as well.</p>
<p>mcat2 - the premed advising groups usually advise students not to depend on the AP classes to fulfill the requirements. It does not mean people have to repeat classes by taking introductory classes but it means taking enough classes to justify the specific amount of work specified by AAMC at the college level.</p>
<p>I made up the 120 number. I know it is much smaller than most of the schools in texas which tend to be closer to 200 or more. Yale is such a long shot for most applicants unless they are being raised by Curm.</p>
<p>along the lines of credits…how strict are most schools on number of credits…if S2 takes another math he really wants to take stats, with the 4 credits he already has, stats is just 3 more (so total of 7 math credits)…a few schools i saw required 8… is that an automatic exclusion? he will have a ton more chem, bio etc than he needs, (btw i once asked about his honors stats course which is designated as an honors course not a math… he asked his advisor who said his school would accept it as a math but other schools “might” not…so he is going the safer route and taking a math designated stat course)</p>
<p>agree trapezius, and that is what he decided… it was more about if a school says 8 math credits and you have 7 is that an automatic “you’re out”. some schools only needed 6, some needed 8 and he will probably end up with 7… not eager to take another math instead of stats just to get 8.</p>
<p>D took both Calc III and Stat and received credit for Calc I & II through AP AB & BC. Would AP credit count toward the 8 math credits, P56, or do they need to be taken at the university you attend?</p>
<p>Another question…a few of the med schools she’s considering require biochem. She is currently a junior double major and has done all science pre-reqs at her university during the fall or spring terms. I know schools frown on taking science classes during summer; however, since biochem is not actually required by many, is it okay to take it during the summer?</p>
<p>if i understand it correctly jc40… if you take the credit for ap, then most schools want you to take upper level courses in lieu of the ap. ie if you had ap credit for chem, then you would still need the number of hours or semesters the med school requires but at a higher level. if you dont take the ap credit, then the intro courses etc can be used to meet the requirement.
S2 is taking advanced biochem next semester and will take the lab portion during the summer maymester. he doesnt have a choice so hopefully summer doesnt matter. S2 is also doing 2 degrees so he has to take courses during the summer to get in all the 170-180 credits in 4 years.</p>
<p>^D. took biochem after MCAT. I guess, it depends on other classes that you took. She had a decent MCAT but not at the level of her GPA. She said that the most helpful were genetics and physiology as far as classes outside of Med. School pre-regs.</p>
<p>She is a Human Bio/Religion double major. She had AP Bio in HS and got a 5 on the test so she received transfer credit. She has taken several biology courses at her university. Similarly, she had AP Chem in hs (5) so she received transfer credit there as well. She has taken the following chem courses at her university: Honors Gen Chem I, Honors Gen Chem II, Honors Orgo I, and Honors Orgo II. So, although she’s had bio and chem, she has not had biochem. Kristen, she wasn’t planning on taking biochem until this summer. She’ll be taking the MCAT in April; do you feel biochem will really, really help on the MCAT? She’s heard biochem at her school is a GPA killer, and since she’s a TX resident hoping to pre-match; she doesn’t think it’d be wise to risk having a possible B (or maybe even C) on her transcript for the TX schools to see when deciding whether to extend interviews this summer. Your thoughts?</p>
<p>As far as the math goes, she took AP Calc AB (5) and AP Calc BC (5) in hs (transfer credit given). At her university she has taken: Calc III and Stat. Hopefully this is sufficient and fulfills the 8 credits y’all had mentioned because she hadn’t planned on taking any more math. </p>
<p>Tough one, and you raise good points. Assuming you know nothing about the actual MCAT test, here’s a little primer: you have 70 min to complete 52 questions for the bio section. Of those 52 questions, 13 are pure recall/fact based. The other 39 are divided among 7 passages. The passages contain information about a study or experiment (typically at the level you would find in an academic journal) and the questions are typically pretty high-level questions (meaning it’s not just about finding the information in the passage, you actually have to apply and integrate and deduce various conclusions to find the answer). Where does biochem come in? There were a few (2?) passages directly related to biochem on my test, if I remember correctly, so having knowledge about approaching biochem problems was useful (note: knowledge of pathways, etc was not tested; more about the process of tackling those problems). </p>
<p>The cop-out answer would be to suggest she take it in the spring, work hard and get the A. But that’s not always feasible. So to me, it comes down to this–assuming a B is likely, would I rather have a slightly lower GPA and potentially higher MCAT score, OR would I rather have a slightly better GPA and a potentially lower MCAT score? In my mind, the minimum workable MCAT score is 30 (which also happened to be my score). If I believed knowledge about approaching biochemistry questions would NOT make the difference between sub-30 and 30 because I was expecting to do better* then I wouldn’t worry too much about the biochem help on the MCAT. Similarly, if my GPA really needed protecting (ie, it’s on the borderline of competitive or is sitting somewhere in the 3.5-3.6 range), then I would avoid taking a class that could damage it. If my GPA were high (3.8+) and I was concerned about getting the best MCAT score possible, then I would take biochem in the spring knowing that even if I get a B, my GPA will still be competitive. But that’s just me!</p>
<p>*How can I estimate my MCAT score? Most of the people I know scored within 2 points of their ACT score, myself included.</p>
Wouldn’t it be riskier NOT to have Biochemistry on the transcript when almost every Texas school recommends it? I believe Texas Tech (Lubbock) and UT-Houston are the only ones that don’t.</p>
<p>You can always take biochem in the final year after you have started applying and GPA no longer is an issue. JC seems more concerned about biochem and relationship with MCAT. </p>
<p>I was wondering the same myself. If someone takes MCAT after second year or middle of the third year, is it necessary to take all the courses required by AAMC/Colleges in order to do well in MCAT or they are only needed to be completed by the time of graduation?</p>
I agree with your logic. Fortunately my son’s major requires almost every one of those classes (i.e Genetics, Biochem, Calc/Stats) so I don’t have to convince him. ;)</p>
<p>Most schools won’t consider an applicant who doesn’t have all the common pre-reqs completed at the time of application. But schools which require certain additional specific courses–like biochem or genetics–usually will allow an applicant to take the coursework during the application cycle but will require a final transcript showing all pre-reqs have been completed before the applicant can finalize their acceptance. (Summer before matriculation is too late to take it. Needs to be done fall or spring of the senior year.)</p>
<p>My daughter did take her biochem first semester senior year as she was interviewing, so it wasn’t on her AMCAS. IIRC, you list the classes you are taking senior year on your app.</p>
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