No, but the grade compression is extreme - to me that is part of rigor, as I defined it.
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I third this. It is impossible and futile to rank schools according to an undefined “rigor” because in the band of schools being discussed, they are ALL rigorous. Full stop.
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Yes thanks. That is essentially what I meant. I purposely listed soft skills and murky qualities as markers of a rigorous education. Nothing I wrote was quantifiable.
If you define a rigorous school as one which successfully prepares kids to score well on certain exams or provides advanced/college-level coursework to high school students then the answer is all of them. They are all rigorous including the hidden gems that don’t get discussed often but also provide excellent educations. And frankly most of those same very bright kids would have achieved those exact same scores and mastered that coursework even if they had stayed at home at a day school or a strong public school.
So what does a boarding school provide that cannot be gotten at home? What could make attending boarding school more “rigorous” or challenging than attending a day school? Ideally, at those schools, a certain type of learning continues outside the classroom (in the evenings, on the weekends, in the dorms/dining halls, on sports fields, during extracurricular activities and assemblies, by making friends with kids from very different socioeconomic backgrounds, by having crappy roommates and figuring out how to handle them with the support of the dorm faculty, by being forced to reconsider their previous perspectives and values, by figuring out how to be part of a community --the good, the bad, and the ugly).
This learning requires actively struggling with ideas that they would not have encountered if they had stayed home and learning how to handle those struggles with the guidance and support of adults who are not their parents. The work is rigorous because the kids are simultaneously challenged academically and emotionally --hopefully in a developmentally appropriate way that helps them mature and become better versions of themselves. At very least, most of those schools help kids learn to self-advocate and teach their students how to be adaptable and resilient in the face of some truly low moments.
There are a lot of rigorous and glorious experiences to be had in a good boarding school, but taking multivariable calculus is the least of it. Many kids can do that at home in their local high school or through an online or dual enrollment course. That is OK. Day schools and local public schools are often good choices as well.
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Well said! Thank you for validating my gut instinct that the school my daughter was accepted to is a perfect fit when I think about Rigor in the way you have described. I was told her school was considered less “rigorous” and considered a weak school academically; yet it’s on Par with all Prep Schools in areas that are most important to us. Thank you for validating that often times schools that are mostly considered Hidden Gems are not “weaker” schools academically, but perhaps just different in culture.
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IMO it’s not that it’s hard to get support at PA, it’s that you have to proactively seek it out. Some schools provide a lot of scaffolding to ensure that no one sinks and everyone learns to swim. PA has an academic skills center, peer tutoring, teacher office hours, etc etc etc but no one forces you to go. For better or worse I’d guess that most kids show up to BS without a well-developed muscle for self-advocacy and seeking help, in part bc they’re used to very much not needing it.
As far as rigor, I’d note that PA has 600 level courses in many disciplines which more or less track to typical college sophomore level courses. And, on the various college tours we’ve done at which we’ve connected with PA alumni, they invariably say the work-life balance is much better at college and the workload much lighter. Even at super reach/lottery ticket schools.
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So helpful! I’m wondering what level your son is math-wise? 300 or 400? TIA
OH wow… I didn’t even think about that… glad I started the thread specifically for that comment! Thanks @one1ofeach ! Can anyone here tell me about grade compression at Exeter, Choate or Lawrenceville? TIA
+1 on everything above you said about PA!
My daughter (“step” “bonus” whatever term!) is at PA (I don’t often share anything because we didn’t discover these boards until looking for our son, her process was super simple and didn’t require much hand wringing 
)
Every experience is going to be nuanced a reflection of each individual student’s unique experiences/needs/challenges/background, etc.
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Having reread the original poster’s question, I realize that I may have misinterpreted its intent. And I certainly misunderstood the OP’s definition of rigor.
So I’ll get off my soap box a minute to just say that while I can’t really distinguish between the academic rigor of those schools in a useful way, my small piece of advice is that it is a little easier for kids to fall through the cracks at larger schools and a little easier for kids to be seen/well-known within the community at smaller schools. Those are gross generalizations with all sorts of exceptions. But if the concern is that a “sink or swim” atmosphere seems scary, and the academic strength is similar, I think that the adults at a smaller school might notice more quickly if a kid is swimming vs. treading water vs. drowning. Nevertheless, I know kids who have drown (and thrived) at all sizes of school. I guess the question to ask is based on what you know, do you trust the adults at that school to recognize your child if he is in trouble or struggling unexpectedly? Do you trust your child to contact you and let you know if he is in trouble or struggling? If the answer to both of those questions is yes then I think he’ll be OK at whatever school seems like a good fit in other ways.
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I agree overall and/but would add the follow up question: once recognized by the adults, what, if anything, do they do? As noted in other comments, in the larger/sink or swim places the culture may be to let things continue until/unless they are dire and rather far along. That makes your second question all the more important.
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I’m going to take a stab at providing a definition of rigor since we all come in with different meanings. I know @DrPrimo will correct me if it doesn’t align with his thinking. Rigor is:
Where the brightest and most capable students in a particular subject will be stretched and challenged and will not “outgrow” the curriculum.
Where opportunities exist outside the classroom to fully engage students’ specific interests.
Where students have to be at the top of their games to excel in the classroom and receive top grades.
Where the entire community (teachers, students, advisors, etc) maintains high expectations for student achievement and celebrates that success .
Some will quibble with this brief list and others will strongly disagree. @Alqbamine32 gave a thoughtful and valuable list of what makes for a good boarding school and I strongly agree that those qualities are important–they are what I looked for in a school for my daughters–I just don’t agree that they define an academically rigorous school.
My daughters are at the same school. For one, the school is quite rigorous. It gives her the right level of challenge to stretch her capabilities. PA, PEA, etc, would have been a disaster for her. Her twin is very strong in math and science. While the humanities classes have been at the right level for her, the math and science classes have been a bit of a disappointment to her so far. Two different students, two different experiences, and why I believe an objective definition of rigor has to be defined by the experience of the best and brightest students.
Having said all that, I think it’s folly for parents to select a school solely based on it being in the top 5 of whatever our definition of rigor is. Student fit is everything.
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Thank you @QueueCT. Why would PEA, PA, etc. have been a disaster for your girls?
PEA is more or less the same as PA. Similar level of support and similar expectations.
At PEA I have heard kids struggling and parents are not aware of that. School probably won’t reach out to parents on social or behavioral issues unless rules are broken or things are bad enough that the kid won’t get out it on her own. On academics, parents can see the issues from mid term results and comments. The teachers are good at commenting on issues they see. If parents have any concerns, they can contact the advisor any time. But the advisor won’t alert the parents about a missed AM class.
One word on harkness for science classes. This is not for everyone. Proactive learning is needed. Only doing the homework is not enough. Classroom discussions may not cover everything one needs. I do think harkness in science prepares kids for college well in that kids learn how to study. But for kids with a passive learning style it’s not a good fit.
Also, sports and other commitments may happen at the same time as the office hours. Kids need to be proactive to seek help if needed. Maybe that’s part of the sink or swim?
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Except, again, at the band of schools under discussion, they are indistinguishable from each other using your definition.
Step down a band or two, and yes, those schools are distinguishable from GLADCHEMMS. With the quick follow up that non GLADCHEMMS schools can give an excellent, and rigorous education for a student that fits them.
Agree with the general statement that it’s harder to fall through the cracks at a smaller school.
I’ve said it many times on CC, but in my opinion the secret to success at a sink or swim school is TIME MANAGEMENT and executive function. It is NOT raw intelligence.
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It’s hard to compare the rigor of the well-known schools with precision since only a small group of parents have had multiple kids in these same schools.
Nevertheless, we live in the “heart” of boarding school world, and for 20-plus years we have received tons of feedback from other parents. We have frequently heard variations of the following theme, specifically with respect to Exeter and Groton:
“Thank goodness my child survived - it was a very tough four years. Glad we did it, but not sure we would do it again.”
Whether it’s the workload, or the peer group, these are my vote for the most rigorous boarding schools, however one wants to define “rigorous”.
Recent past comment:
Those schools would have been a poor fit for DD1. She’s bright and capable but it takes a long time for her to get to the answers. It’s more of a grind. think about math. Anyone can learn the recipe regarding how to manipulate equations symbolically. Relatively straightforward. It takes her longer to learn that recipe than other kids but once she learns it then it’s automatic. Now think about what i consider real math … how to see patterns and relationships and apply the right technique to a problem (integration by substitution is often a good example of this … or even proofs in Euclidean Geometry). Some kids can see those patterns right away. Others can never see them. Most are in between but for some it takes them so many attempts that they run out of time on their tests or on their homework. That’s DD1. Not just in math. It in most of her subjects. She’s an A student but the amount of time invested to get the A is crazy.
A school where she’s among much quicker students would be frustrating for her and she would likely sink. DD2 is different. She might be a touch under challenged right now.
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This is not true at all at Exeter. My son missed a class and we immediately got an email and his advisor checked in on him right away to make sure he was okay. He just over slept so his advisor talked to him about his sleep schedule and they notified us also. I think
People have out of date ideas about Exeter. It offers much more support than people say on this board. We really find it to be a warm, close community that looks out for the kids.
The harkness style is particularly great for math. When you are forced to explain to the class how you got to a solution, you have to really understand the concept and nothing can slip through the cracks.
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To be frank, I don’t think it’s a good idea to say other’s experience “is not true at all”. At least before knowing where it is from and what it’s really about. This is offensive.
You told your story. That’s fine. Others may have different experience. You can’t simply label other people’s experiences as not true. Everyone’s experience is useful here. Just like yours.
DD is a current student, so my information is certainly not outdated or second hand. She overslept once and I didn’t hear it from her advisor. And I like it this way.
Regarding harkness math, again it varies by teacher and the student group. Not all teachers and kids are able to explain everything fully. Sometimes test questions are outside of what’s covered in class.
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Interesting conversation.
I recall a few years ago there was a survey on homework hours, and Andover and Groton came out on top, if I recall correctly. Maybe it was also Exeter there too? If I recall, Groton was the tippy top, driven by the Latin requirement, which I understand may have changed a bit after covid.
In any case, how one defines “rigor” really varies, as we have seen.
But I’ll address the homework component of rigor.
As someone who has had the exact same daughter attend two different boarding schools – one of which being one of the above mentioned “high homework load” schools – I feel like our experience very clearly showed us that homework loads and study culture are absolutely different across schools. It was FAR LESS a “function of the student” as some have hypothesized than it was of the school, in our specific experience. Same student; different schools; different results, in our case anyway.
That said, there is plenty of rigor available at the “lower-load” school where my daughter is now, and she takes all honors and advanced courses. Interestingly, after changing schools, she indicated that she found the class conversations more robust at her second school because there was less of a culture of worrying about “sounding smart” in class discussions so more people spoke freely. To be fair – this was the impression of a 14 year old kid who is super social, loves extracurriculars and sports, and probably had no business joining a school that openly told us 4 hours of homework each night freshman year was typical. (We naively thought: “oh surely she will just get used to that?” OR…“maybe they are exaggerating?” bless our little 2019 hearts…) In any case, I can a thousand percent confirm that the nightly homework load truly decreased (so this wasn’t an executive functioning skill issue), and for her that meant feeling more invigorated in class, and more connected to her school as she had time for her sports, and for just hanging out sometimes with friends. In addition to less homework, the scaffolding and support at the “lower load” school was completely different, making the rigor feel more doable and less “sink or swim.” so when she DOES have a ton of homework or questions or issues, she has places to go; people who see her fully.
Anyway…for my next daughter who applied to BS, I learned to ask without any apology: what is the typical nightly workload for a typical, non-finals week, for a freshman?
thanks for the conversation!
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I agree with @Calliemomofgirls.
I think some people are conflating “rigor” with “excellence” or “good school.” That was not my impression of the OP’s question and that’s not how I see rigor. There are many schools out there where they take the whole kid into account and kids get good academics but also have time to do other things without feeling stressed about schoolwork all the time.
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