NEED HELP!! My SIR is due in two days, and I still cant make a decision.
I, 90%, want to go to Occidental to the 3/2 engineering program with Caltech, but now I hear 3/2 isnt very good.
I got into UCSD and UCI, where I can do engineering for four years.
What should I do? I know 3/2 is risky but I think im up for the challenge. I thought 3/2 is a wise decision, as it gives me 2 bachelors. But CC says otherwise. Thank you.
Are you guaranteed entry to Caltech? What are the conditions? What happens if Caltech rejects you? Can your family afford a 5th year of college expenses?
Caltech is an incredible place, but don’t be blinded by the prestige.
You need to speak with someone currently in the program ASAP.
Best of luck!
Occidental should have a 3/2 coordinator on staff. Call him/her and have a frank discussion. Get the stats. Ask the hard questions.
A few months ago I had a discussion with the 3/2 coordinator at a LAC in New England. They have an active 3/2 program with an engineering school in NYC. Here is what he said…
"Each year about 25 freshmen express interest in the 3-2 program, and around 10-15 immediately start the coursework. However, for a variety of reasons such as poor grades, loss of interest, sports, extracurricular activities, friends, etc., only about 2-4 juniors and seniors go on to (engineering school). This year though, five students are going to (engineering school). I don’t keep track of the exact reason why students drop out. I do know that some students have the GPA to be accepted but choose not to go.
There is no requirement to join the program. Like when a student declares a major, you are expected to take pre-engineering classes as long as you want to be in the program. If a student meets all the requirements at the end, he/she is auto-admitted to the engineering school with minimal paperwork.
Some students choose to complete the program in three years, hence the 3-2, but there is also an option to do the program in 4 years. In this case, a student will still need two more years at (engineering school) to get the engineering degree, but the auto-admission requirement/process is still the same.
Once at (engineering school), our students report very positive outcomes. No one has dropped out from (engineering school) and (engineering school) rep’s say our students do above average in their courses."
I hope this is helpful.
I’m not a fan of the 3/2 programs because 1) many students who are happy on a campus hesitate to leave before graduation so many choose not to move; 2) there are often pretty stringent requirements (ex. GPA cutoff) to make the move and 3) it takes an extra year as compared to a traditional 4 year engineering program. If you are considering it I agree with the comment above…find out the stats, requirements etc.
At this program, 20 express interest, 3 still want to do it during their junior year, and all succeed in the “2” category. I emailed the coordinator and was pretty satsified with their answers. I asked what requirements i need, which is a cumulative 3.5 gpa, having taken an intense course schedule.
Here, columbia is automatic with minimal paperwork. Caltech is a bit more extensive, but still manageable. As for money, i got almost a full ride for occidental and possibly my three years? Im pretty sure prospective students at columbia is free for me (<$60,000).
I liked it because of the two bachelors i may receive. Im not committed to engineering if anything pops up. I have options, essentially.
@happy1 , i think i would go do my engineering degree than spend my senior year at oxy, just my personal preference. And i know the gpa cutoff is intense, but im up for the challenge. And i agree about the extra year the 3/2 offers. But the 4yr university is at uci or ucsd, which im not so fond of, due to the large size and little connection with professors.
Thanks for the opinions!!!
@STEM2017 , i have another question. I wanted to do engineering from the start, and this program is a stepping stone. Had i gone to usc, i would not think about the 3/2. So if people are truly committed to engineering and make the grade cutoff, it is logical that those people fulfill the “2” portion. I wont get distracted by ecs or sports, i hope.
You seem committed and determined. Good for you. As long as you know all the caveats going in, then you’re all set. An engineering degree from Cal Tech would be pretty dang impressive.
Even if you decide not to do the program, a bachelor’s degree from Oxy is a great achievement.
Best of luck!
Do not assume that Columbia or Caltech will give you a generous financial aid for the two years in the engineering program. Check it out with the school now. Each engineering school may have differentpolicies. BTW, financial aid is usually only offered for 4 years of undergraduate education. Easy admissions may imply “no aid”.
Note that getting a 3.5 GPA in college (Occidental’s minimum for 3+2 students, which is higher than the minimum needed to transfer to Columbia as a 3+2 student, though Columbia has other requirements like no lower than a B grade on the first try on any engineering prerequisite) is much harder than getting a 3.5 GPA in high school.
Occidental also appears to require 3+2 students to major in physics, unlike some other “3” schools where any major is allowed (but the engineering prerequisites need to be taken alongside).
https://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/apply/combined-plan is Columbia’s page about 3+2 programs with it as the “2” school. Note that Columbia does not guarantee to “meet full need” of 3+2 students, unlike for other transfers and frosh.
While I would in general be careful about a 3+2 program, I would be especially careful about any 3+2 program that requires a 3.5 GPA in pre-engineering classes. That seems unnecessarily high.
I’d say it depends on you. If going to an LAC is really important to you and you’re not 100% sold on majoring in engineering anyway, it may make sense to go to Occidental and just explore the program a bit. If you really want to be an engineer, then going to a traditional engineering program may make more sense for you. Also, if finances are ever a problem the four-year makes more sense - since a 3+2 program is an extra year of expenses AND your financial at Columbia or Caltech would be as a transfer student, not as a new freshman. (Also, 3+2 could easily turn into 4+2 for any variety of reasons.)
@STEM2017 , thank you!
And @Bamboolong , the fa is roug, caltech offers none but i am very sure columbia gives me all? Am i a prospective student if i go there? Or am i considered a transfer student? Either way, since my cost at oxy is pretty low, My parents and I are prepared to pay.
@ucbalumnus , a 3.5 will be difficult but im ready to do it. And i selected physics as my major. While the fa is a big part, doesnt coumbia give me aid? They said they do need-based and although they do not meet 100% of people’s need, it is much better than caltech’s plan.
@juillet , yes it is high. I dont know how to conquer that except to try hard in college and hope for the best. If im going to try hard in college, i might as well try to go somewhere prestigious. And even though engineering is not solely based on prestige, it still has some value. Thank you!!
I thought about the traditional 4 yr, but they are only at hugeeee public schools. I dont want to learn in an environment with over 200 classmates. Oxy’s freshman class is very small, and I want to shine bright there. Not trying to be defensive, but they are my arguments and i hope they are logical.
Thanks to all! I am submitting my SIR.
Hi @ikim16 I am thinking of doing the same thing as you, I just reveived a full schoolarhip from a LAC, and want to be an Engineer, getting two degrees in two years sounds amazing to me. I think with determination we can do it.
I am only afraid of one thing, what if by the time that we apply the 3-2 program is discontinued?
You seem to know the challenges ahead - maintaining a 3.5 isn’t easy but it’s doable (especially in pre-engineering) - and you’re not really set on engineering anyway so Occidental offers you the opportunity to take a different route, on a full ride. Plus you want a small school, and you’re motivated by potentially going to Caltech (just bear in mind that may or may not work out). I’d go with Occidental.
MOBERATOR’S NOTE:
The question was asked in April; one has to assume that the OP has long ago reached a decision and needs no further opinions. Closing thread.