Personally I’m not a fan of the 3/2 programs. My preference would be to get into an engineering program and stay in one place. Some of my issues are 1) many 3/2 programs have hard to meet requirements for getting into the second part so find out what they are in advance and think about if you can do it 2) socially it is not ideal to leave one school for another – transferring can be hard as people will already be in social groups at the school you move to, they will be used to the academics there etc. while you are adjusting to a new school and a challenging program as a junior. Others may have different views – this is just my personal opinion.
I see that the 3/2 route is clearly not in favor of many CC posters here, and I admit that it has its drawbacks, yet I believe it can be the right program for the right people.
Let’s see what are its pros:
Easy to get into the 3 part.
If you want to go straight to Columbia, good luck. But with the program, you own the situation. You can make it 100% certain.
Some say that socially it’s not good; others may disagree. I respectfully disagree with @happy1 in that transferring to these programs may not be as hard to adjust as to other schools. Why? Because in these programs, everyone is in the same boat. There’d be over a hundred kids who are new to this, just like you. It’s like freshman year all over again. Also you’d have 2 groups of friends, one in the 3-school and one in the 2-school. Isn’t that much better for networking?
The last one, well this may sound superficial: prestige. You can have a Columbia, USC, RPI, or WUSTL, or even CalTech degree, all of which is reputable.
For the cons:
You may get stuck with a liberal art degree when you want to do Engineering. Be careful, but if you’re a risk-taker then why not?
The cost. Take Columbia for an example, the school doesn’t ensure that it will meet your need. Have about $120k in your pocket when you decide to transfer, just to make sure you can finish the degree.
Some people say that most of the time students don’t get to the 2-part. This relates to your self-motivation and stuff, so this may vary from person to person. Honestly, if you quit while you’re the liberal art college, then I think Engineering has never been your thing, and you’d be glad you haven’t pursued it.
I think you are a motivated student. The call is yours, hope you choose the right one.
I’m may be a bit bias here since Engineering isn’t my thing. I briefly consider this program for CS, but choose not to. When I spoke to Beloit’s representative, it seems like not a lot of kids are pursuing this. Do your research and familiarize yourself with the requirement, and you’d do fine.
Thanks!! I really don’t mind the switch. I’m used to it. The requirements are, indeed, hard, which is why I wanted other people’s opinions. and being one of the few who make it to the “2” scares me. But it’s one of my options.
Does columbia or other schools give aid? I’m kinda low income and I assumed I can get some help.
Wow, the field is kinda competitive. I’m up for the challenge, but then again, it’s a matter of risk.
Keep in mind that 3-2 programs are actual programs. Though seemingly stating the obvious, this does mean that as long as you do your part they will provide you with the structure necessary for you to complete one. The aspect of financing the “2” part is something you should definitely research ahead of time though. Your likely “3” schools may be able to provide you with the most information on this.
IMHO this would be a poor choice compared to other alternatives if you want to become an engineer. Prestige is far less important in entering the engineering career than HS kids think. Employers know that the skills can be taught at many schools, and furthermore they now they can test for them during an interview so they’re not taking as much of a chance on what’s going to happen as say a bank is when they hire a History major. Among top Bay area employers you find Cal and Stanford do well, of course, but plenty of state schools do too
Do 3/2 kids end up with engineering degrees? Oxy says this
You can also infer the low xfer rate by looking at the few schools that publish relevant statistics. Take a look at Columbia’s program http://undergrad.admissions.columbia.edu/learn/academiclife/engineering/combined-plan-program Meet the conditions (which you need to read carefully since they aren’t easy) and you get into an Ivy! Wow! But click on the link of participating colleges and there are over 100 schools listed. The Columbia website says it has admitted on average about 150 transfers total to Columbia. That’s the total for Columbia College and Columbia Engineering, BTW. So it seems obvious that the numbers actually completing the Columbia Engineering pathway from these 100+ colleges is small.
If you really want to be an engineer then your aim ought to be to get a degree from a decent or better school, earn a good gpa there, and take part in internships (a real key) and student activities related to engineering. Which means if you don’t get accepted into an engineering program at the schools where you applied then the next highest probability approach is to attend a CC for 2 years and use TAG to get guaranteed admission. It’s your life and your future, but to me the 3/2 approach seems the least promising of all.
The 4 year route has the least risk and most flexibility. You may decide that your don’t like EE as much as some other area, and most 4 year programs let you move around in the first 2 years. You won’t know until you are exposed to it, and most programs have an ‘intro to engineering’ to help students decide.
It’s not that it’s a bad idea (although for many students, it is a BAD idea), it’s just after a three years, lots of students decide that it’s not for them. At that point, if you still want to be an engineer your only real option is to get your B.S. and then spend 3+ years more in an Engineering M.S. program, if you can get admitted. Not impossible but difficult.
I thought going to a “3” college is more flexible. And if I get into Cal Poly SLO, Im going there for 4 years. The experience there is better than top UC’s, and working after is more probable.
3/2 is an option. I guess it is really competitive so I may stray away. If all else fails, I ll go to pepperdine or a lower UC.
No, 3/2 programs are not particularly flexible. At the LAC you’ll be restricted to a set of Chemistry, Physics and Mathematics courses that the engineering schools will require to be on your transcript when you apply of admission. Once you get to the STEM university (if you are admitted), there will be another round of foundational engineering courses and those courses will leave you little time or opportunity for non-STEM courses in your schedule.
There are 3/2 success stories (I’ve only read about one). You should ask the 3/2 coordinator at your target LAC about the numbers of LAC students whom have moved forward to the STEM university.
Take the four years; it’s like an Over-the-counter medicine that you take to get immediate relief. If you need to change meds later, then you have that option, but you will eventually get better within that time frame.
Too many students have changed their goals within the 3/2 programs. What you like in high school may not be what you like in college.
Only thing is, Isnt public 4 yr universities bad for working? I thought lac and private colleges give you better networking and the smaller environment is better.
Thanks, Im sure i will stick with my major, but i ll take into account everything.
Maybe, maybe not. Many large companies do most of their recruiting at large flagships because they can get more good grads in one visit. Large flagships also tend to have more research $ (though they may have to be shared with grad students). YMMV. Personally I’m a big believer in LACs but don’t dismiss public Us out of hand. I am not a believer in the 3/2 programs.
The number of people who express an interest in Carleton’s 3/2 program tells you nothing about how many people actually enter each year. Carleton also explains that some of the students choose to do the 4/2 program instead.
Same thing with the Occidental statistic. IN a given incoming class large numbers may express interest in pre-med, too, or economics. They then change their minds. There’s normal levels of attrition out of regular engineering programs, too. How do 3/2 programs compare with that? How many students at, say, UF express an interest in an engineering major and later change their minds? There’s no evidence. None of these schools has given any real good indication for how many students start off wanting to major in the 3/2 engineering program, actually start completing the requirements, but then don’t transfer - either because they can’t get into the receiving school because of their grades or because they decided junior year that they changed their mind.
And although many CC folks do claim that “a lot” or “most” or “the vast majority” of 3/2 engineering students don’t transfer, I have yet to see any empirical evidence supporting that (and again, I am talking about students who actually enter the program and begin completing prerequisites, not just students who express interest or put their names on an email list). The only experience I have is anecdotal - I went to an LAC with a very successful 3/2 program. A lot of my friends were in that program, and most of them did move onto the engineering school. The few that did not didn’t stay behind because they wanted to graduate with their class (the 3/2 students could come back and walk with us during graduation, and many of them did. Besides, by junior year at an LAC, it starts to feel a bit claustrophobic, and many students are ready to move on. I certainly was! I loved my school but if I could’ve spent my senior year elsewhere, I would’ve). They changed their minds because they decided to do something else career-wise. One I can remember top of mind decided he wanted to go into business instead and didn’t see the point of spending another year in the 3/2 program when he really wanted to get an MBA, so he ended up going into consulting and now he works for a large tech company.
I do think that for most students going to a traditional engineering program is probably the better bet. It’s simply inertia - a traditional engineering program presents fewer barriers to finishing. You don’t have to fill out paperwork to transfer to another school; you don’t have to move; you don’t have to figure out financial aid at a new university; you don’t have to say goodbye to all of your friends. These are logistical, financial, and emotional barriers that are frankly easier to NOT deal with. Particularly if finances are a problem, it’s easier to stay where you have an idea of what your package will look like for 4-5 years than to transfer to a black box.
But for many students the 3/2 program is exactly what they really want - they want three years of a liberal arts education but they still want to be an engineer. Many of those students have the ambition and independence necessary to make the transition despite the barriers. And these top schools wouldn’t sponsor these programs if they didn’t have support systems and structures in place.
Check out the list of ABET accredited colleges at the ABET web site. There are many options in between large public state universities and 3-2 programs. There are a number of smaller and private schools that offer 4 year accredited engineering programs. The ABET site lists all the schools, you can search by state and find which particular engineering degrees are offered.
Whether a larger or smaller environment is better depends very much on the particular student. Have you visited any schools yet? If not, start by visiting some larger and smaller schools near you to get a feel for what fits you.
If you true interest is in enrolling at a small engineering university, then consider these west coast options that might make it financially feasible…if you have a strong GPA and good test scores;
U of Portland
U of San Diego
And since Rose Hulman is already on your list, think about South Dakota School of Mines & Technology, Illinois Institute of Technology and Case Western Reserve University. If your grades are average, CWRU and IIT are long shots.