<p>m2ck, jrcsmom, and everybody else that has given reasons for kids not getting done in 4, 5 or 6 years, the question that is not being adressed is why are these problems worse at UA than they are at, say, Florida State? I think everybody is aware of all the reasons m2ck lists and they apply to kids at all state schools. Dr. Bonner recognizes this and is working to address it.
I am personally not concerned about the graduation rate at UA for my son if he decides to attend but I do have some other concerns. Purdue is another school that my son is considering and it also has somewhat low graduation rates for what appear to be different reasons than UA. I am much more concerned about Purdue’s graduation rates with respect to my son than I am UA’s.</p>
<p>*the question that is not being adressed is why are these problems worse at UA than they are at, say, Florida State? *</p>
<p>what is FSU’s average? (found it…75%…not a huge difference)</p>
<p>There could still be a number of reasons if the difference is significant. The state of FL has Bright Futures that is funding many FL students…and FSU has a large instate population. FSU is ONLY 9% out of state!</p>
<p>Since most of Alabama’s OOS students are full or near-full pay, there may be situations where families can’t continue to pay the OOS cost (job loss, divorce, whatever), or maybe the agreement was that a certain GPA must be maintained, and when it wasn’t, the parents’ checkbook closed. I can imagine that there’s a number of parents who would refuse to continue to pay a high OOS cost if their child was getting a lowish GPA. </p>
<p>I also know that FSU can be harder to get into…simply because the FL is so large…the school has too many strong applicants. On CC we’ve seen kids with decent stats get rejected. Just that fact would help with their stats.</p>
<p>Alabama is quite lenient with its admissions…especially for instate students. Bama knows that there are some rural areas in the state where the students may not have had a very good K-12 education. I don’t know if those accepted students have a greater chance of taking longer (or dropping out). I would guess, YES.</p>
<p>FSU’s 25% percentile ACT is a 25. Bama’s is lower (22) because of its mission to educate those who went to those rural K-12 schools. (however, Bama’s top 25% is higher than FSU’s)</p>
<p>You can’t compare FSU and Bama. FSU is populated with mostly instate students who have little tuition to pay…especially if a number of those students have BF.</p>
<p>I don’t see the point of worrying if your child is:</p>
<p>funded (thru parents, merit, whatever)
serious student - ready for college-level courses
doesn’t suffer from any mental illnesses
is pretty level-headed.</p>
<p>However, you should be concerned about your child attending ANY college, if your child is:</p>
<p>Very immature
not ready for college-level courses
bad study/homework habits.
hoping that funding will fall from the sky
way tooooo social and won’t focus
likely to sleep thru classes since parents won’t be there to light a fire under feet.
likely to radically change majors which will require an additional 2+ years of undergrad.
going to add extra majors and minors that will add an add’l 2+ years</p>
<p>I feel like I am banging my head against the wall here. FSU was thrown out as a single example. Pick Michigan State, TAMU, University of Georgia, etc. Many of these schools used to have rates similar to UA or worse and they have put programs in place to improve their graduation rate. I am really glad the UA can see that they can do better and are trying to do something rather than stick their head in the sand and pretend they are perfect or say there is nothing we can do.</p>
<p>I think the answer is that nobody on this forum knows why UA’s graduation rate is lower than many of its peers. However, I bet that if you call admissions you can find sombody that will give you some reasons that make sense.</p>
<p>I understand that many here are extremely proud of UA and think it is a great school but does that mean you can’t say there are things that could be better? I personally think it is a good school and will not be disapointed in the least if my son chooses it.</p>
<p>I think the answer is that nobody on this forum knows why UA’s graduation rate is lower than many of its peers</p>
<p>???</p>
<p>So you don’t think the fact that only 9% of FSU’s students are OOS (many probably funded athletes) makes a significant difference? </p>
<p>You don’t think the fact that nearly all of FSU’s students are only being charged a low instate rate makes a difference? </p>
<p>you don’t think that many FSU instate kids qualify for near-free tuition because of Bright Futures makes a difference?</p>
<p>you don’t think the ability to pay a low cost makes a difference?</p>
<p>If so, then the rest of us need to stop banging our heads.</p>
<p>but does that mean you can’t say there are things that could be better?</p>
<p>Well, it would be nice if Bama could afford to meet need for most of its students. But, because the state doesn’t have a Bright Futures kind of program, it can’t meet need very well.</p>
<p>And…with the the huge number of OOS students (which FSU doesn’t have) wouldn’t qualify for a BF-kind of program if the state did have one, then it’s almost impossible to meet OOS need unless need is low. </p>
<p>Sure, Bama could “get tougher” with admissions and start rejecting most of those low test score students, but then there would be howls because many URM and rural kids would be shut out. </p>
<p>Once you eliminate more lower test score students your grad rate would likely improve. </p>
<p>and, once you have a better “meeting need” situation, your grad rate would also likely improve.</p>
<p>^^You maybe right no one here knows the precise reason, however I don’t believe that the slightly lower graduation rate is a result of limited class offerings or poor instructors. Those would be my concerns and I believe Bama does a good job in both areas . Regardless of the reasons for the graduation rate or the rate it self, it is one of those stats that I truly believe holds little weight. A Graduation plan is about personal responsibility, it is for my D to know what she needs to take and when…Bama does a good job of making resources available so that students can create their plan.</p>
<p>FSU was thrown out as one example of a peer school.</p>
<p>You asked why FSU’s % was different. I answered you. You don’t seem to want to accept a logical answer.</p>
<p>I remembered being similarly worried (if OP is indeed worried), when my S was looking at various universities - 1 stat I did look at was graduation rates. I remember at the time being very surprised that they are relatively low pretty much everywhere. I remember thinking, why aren’t these kids graduating!? I realise now that this stat is particularly useless as it applies to my S and our family: my S was ready for college, he was mature enough to live independently far from home, he had a good network of activities to keep him busy and which would give him opportunities to meet new people/friends, he was studious and not lazy, he was passionate about his course of study and knew what he wanted to do in life with great certainty, and we could afford to pay for his going to UA, even if scholarship money was not in place. So, the ONLY reason he would have dropped out (and thus be part of the stat who doesn’t graduate w/in 6 years) was that UA was not a good fit for him for some other reason.</p>
<p>I’m going to stick my neck out here and say that I believe some families do not do adequate homework about the fit of a school for their particular situation (economically, geographically, socially, etc.), and/or they are not honest about their own student’s chances of graduating within ANY amount of time. What happens next is that the student drops out or transfers.</p>
<p>A better, more meaningful statistic to look at, I believe, is retention of rising Sophomores. I’m sure that is listed somewhere. Please compare that stat w/ those from other schools, and get back to us about what that stat says instead. Because I believe that most people either are on the path to graduate from their original school choice within a very short time-frame: students know pretty early on whether they are going to stick with it or leave. This is why almost every university worth its name will offer a variety of retention programs, as does UA. These include getting students involved early in clubs and campus organisations (Get On Board Day), free tutoring and support programs, First Year Experience-type programs, peer mentoring groups, living/learning communities, AA/OA/Camp/early-college experience, etc.</p>
<p>If I were UA, and I wanted to improve my 6-yr grad rate, I would look first to the 1st-yr retention, by college and by major. Which colleges/majors have the highest drop rates?</p>
<p>To the OP, please give us some indication of what your student plans to study (if they know), and we can give you more information about that particular avenue at UA. Almost all of the CC posters on this forum are pretty passionate about sharing their positive experiences with others. We are not so good at debating how UA stacks up against other schools, because we are by nature biased - and some can even get defensive about this. Rest assured that for the vast majority of us here on the UA forum (i.e., far more than 67%!), UA is a great fit for our kids.</p>
<p>it may be a logical answer, but the truth is you are just speculating. you don’t know either.</p>
<p>i would guess that it has a lot to do with UA accepting a greater number of lower stats students. with that may come financial issues and those students not being the type to buckle down and finish, but who knows?</p>
<p>nobody here knows the real reason(s) why.</p>
<p>*I realise now that this stat is particularly useless as it applies to my S and our family: my S was ready for college, he was mature enough to live independently far from home, he had a good network of activities to keep him busy and which would give him opportunities to meet new people/friends, he was studious and not lazy, he was passionate about his course of study and knew what he wanted to do in life with great certainty, and we could afford to pay for his going to UA, even if scholarship money was not in place. *</p>
<p>exactly.</p>
<p>*it may be a logical answer, but the truth is you are just speculating. you don’t know either.</p>
<p>i would guess that it has a lot to do with UA accepting a greater number of lower stats students. with that may come financial issues and those students not being the type to buckle down and finish, but who knows?</p>
<p>nobody here knows the real reason(s) why.*</p>
<p>Well of course. </p>
<p>and, the reasons that you give are some of the ones that I gave…because those are logical answers. </p>
<p>I even said that the schools could come up with 10+ more reasons to my long list of answers. </p>
<p>there isn’t just one reason, there isn’t just 10 reasons…there are many reasons. </p>
<p>However, the most common reasons probably have to do with financial issues and “not being ready for college” in some regard (emotionally, educationally, etc).</p>
<p>Since FSU is mostly instate students, with harsher acceptance criteria and therefore many/most would qualify for Bright Futures, it would be more likely populated with funded students who are more likely going to be “college ready”.</p>
<p>I’m not sure many/any schools are publishing “this is why our % is what it is”.</p>
<p>TAMU and UT as well as all other public universities in Texas are required to admit all in state students who are in the top 10 percent of their class (UT actually only takes top 7.5 -8 percent). So for those 2 schools the review admit students are super competitive to get in. I’m sure other states may have varying admission policies that could also determine the type is freshmen they get. I’m sure that could cause varying graduation rates</p>
<p>there are a lot of state flagships with lots of OOS students with much better graduation rates and retention rates than Bama</p>
<p>Lots of state flagships with lots of OOS students? </p>
<p>How many state flagship is “lots”? (please name them - assuming that there are 50 state flagships…one for every state.)</p>
<p>And, what % do you consider to be “lots of OOS students”?</p>
<p>i would think most state flagships are populated my mostly in-state students.</p>
<p>Aeromom…</p>
<p>Your analysis spoke to me.</p>
<p>It’s worth noting that UA’s statisticians have ran many models to figure out what would improve UA’s 4 and 6-year graduation rates. I’ve looked at their analysis on many different occasions and did some analysis myself. There are a number of factors which are important in determining UA’s graduation rate, many of which have been mentioned previously.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that UA really wants its 4 and 6-year graduation rates to improve, but it will take a few years to implement. For the students typically represented on CC, important issues concerning their ability to graduate from a university within 4 years include the “overall fit” of the university, course planning and major changes, course availability, and finances.</p>
<p>It’s interesting that the OP planted this negative seed, yet has not come back to respond…just saying…</p>
<p>in addition …
Wyoming = 30%
Vermont = 66%
South Dakota = 37%
Rhode Island = 39%
Oklahoma = 34%
North Dakota = 58%
UNH = 40%
Ole Miss = 38%
Michigan = 34%
Maryland = 29%
Iowa = 39%
Colorado = 37%
Penn State = 30%</p>
<p>Which of these have better grad rates? Without looking, I would guess:</p>
<p>The ones with few African American students
The higher ranked (more selective) ones like Penn State & Michigan </p>
<p>BTW…Mich promises to meet need for instate students because it has a sizeable endowment for a public.</p>