'a-g' GPA/UC details, my qualifications...

State Forums
1

<p>I have a few questions about California's a-g system. Clear a few minutes from your schedule if you truly intend on helping me out - there are a lot of stored questions that I ask here.</p>

<p>1) Does California assume a '90-100 A, 80-89 B, etc.' system, or will I be screwed by my schools graduated system in which a 93 is the lowest possible A (which yields a non-honor 4, and a 4.14 for a 94, 4.28 for a 95, etc.)? I have a lot of low 90-grades that really haven't caused alarm before because of our graduated system that turns those low 90-grades into ~3.8 [+ an honor point for most ~ 4.8]... So will UC schools see the low 90s and treat it them as As (4.00/5.00) or as Bs (3.00/4.00)?</p>

<p><em>Before reading this question, keep in mind that Illinois requires students to have 2.5 units (5 semesters) of Gym/Health before graduating</em>
2) Looking into the expectations for UC public schools (which 2 of my top 3 choices are - UCLA and UCB), I feel I have a fair lineup for everything except the Performing/Visual Art. At my college prep school (catholic & parochial), we have some unfortunate requirements to graduate. Considering we have a mere eight-period day (now with only one zero-hour option due to the economy: Newspaper, which doesn't even count towards GPA yet PE and Religion do.), our required 11 semesters of Gym/Health/Religion cripple the ability to take many electives. Here is my past up to now:
^Required/An equivalent form of the class is required</p>

<p>8th Grade High School Credits: French 1 - 90 A-, 88 B+ (different scale in middle school)</p>

<p>Freshman Year (9th Grade): ^World History - 91 B+, 92 B+
Spanish I - 94 A, 95 A
^Honors Biology - 91 B+, 88 B
^PE I- 91 B+
^Religion I- 88 B, 89 B
^English I - 91 B+, 91 B+
^[Required for sophomores, I took it a year early] Geometry Honors - 91 B+, 91 B+
^Intro To Computers^ - 92 B+</p>

<p>Sophomore Year (10th Grade): Spanish II Honors - 95 A, 89 B (teacher switch in between semesters)
Physics - 93 A-, 90 B
^Religion II- 88 B, 86 B-
^PE II- 90 B
^Health - 93 A-
^[Required basic equivalent for Juniors] Advanced Algebra With Trigonometry - 91 B+, 92 B+
^US History - 94 A, 94 A
^English II - 90 B, 91 B+</p>

<p>//Current Year - Current Sem. Grades (11/18 Weeks), 2nd Sem. Classes Left Blank
Junior Year (11th Grade): Spanish III Honors - 87 B
Honors Pre-calculus - 88 B
AP Statistics - 91 B+
^Gym III- 93 A-
Honors Economics - 93 A-
^Religion III-
Geography -
^English III - 90 B
^Honors Chemistry - 93 A-</p>

<p>*Previous to this year, I held a 3.96 GPA. At the first report card I held a 4.31 for the semester. You may notice though, I don't have a Visual/Performing Art anywhere. This is what I intend to take next year now:</p>

<p>//Next Year - I have worked with Objective-C for 6 months so Java will be easy to pick up and both the senior gym and religion teachers are easy
Senior Year (12th Grade): Honors Programming In Java (1 Sem.)- 97 A
Gym IV (1 Sem.)- 94 A-
Christian Spirituality <a href="1%20Sem.">I'm not even Christian but it's that or a full-year course</a>- 97
Creative Writing I (1 Sem.)- 93 A-
Creative Writing II (1 Sem.)- 93 A-
Art I (1 Unit)- 96, 96 [Art is the only first-year full-unit class we have because all other Performing/Visual arts have 1 Sem. Introductions or are broken into 2 seperate Sems.
English IV (1 Unit)- 91 B+, 91 B+
AP Calculus (1 Unit)- 90 B, 88 B
AP Psychology (1 Unit)- 94 A-, 95 A
Spanish IV/Honors Physics (1 Unit)- 88 B, 88 B/89 B, 90 B</p>

<p>Now that you understand my situation involving squeezing a art in, would Art I qualify as a Visual/Performing Art even if it was taken Senior year? Looking at my only other alternative, I would have to score quite well on the ACT, SAT Reasoning Test, and 2 SAT Subject Tests to be eligible to apply to UC schools without fulfilling the 'a-g' system.</p>

<p>3) Which class would be more appealing to colleges - Spanish IV or Honors Physics? (Consider I have taken 4 years of language prior, 3 of which were Spanish, and 2 of those were honors, also assume I would get a B in both (but Honors Physics would yield an extra point to turn it's non-UC GPA ~ 4.4?</p>

<p>While I'm pouring on questions I've had in the back of head for a few weeks, I would be curious to know which of the OOS colleges (out of the list at the bottom) would likely accept me with the following qualifications (that I will have when I apply):</p>

<p><strong>Positive Qualifications</strong>
<em>Academic Qualifications</em>: ~4.2 GPA (4.00 graduated scale), ~4.40 GPA w/out Gym/Religion
Class rank: 25% Percentile (~40/200)
SAT Reasoning Test: Critical Reading - 660, Math - 760, Writing - 660
SAT Subject Tests: Mathematics II - 770, Literate - 670
ACT: Math - 34, English - 31, Reading - 31, Science - 30 = Compound - 32
<em>Extracurricular Qualifications</em>: Sophomore Student Council Class President (200 student class)
Bowling Club Member (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior)
Bowling Club Champion Captain (Sophomore, Junior) [Out of approximately 25 teams of 4]
Bowling Club Appointed 'Head Chief' (Junior, Senior)
Philosophy Club Member (Junior, Senior)
Newspaper Writer (Senior)
Co-Founder of school Ping Pong Club (Junior)
Ping Pong Club Member (Junior, Senior)
Earth Club Member (Senior)
Head Coaching Youth Park District Basketball Team (Senior)
Co-founding a software/application development business that will likely distribute it's first application shortly
Freshman Student Mentor (Junior, Senior)
National Merit Semifinalist
Application Essay (I consider writing something of this sort to be one of my strengths)
Intramural Involvements: Dodgeball (Sophomore, Junior, Senior), Tennis (Senior), Basketball (Sophomore, Junior, Senior)</p>

<p><strong>Mediocre Qualifications</strong>:
<em>Teachers' Recommendations</em>: won't be sincere or at least not boasting my work ethic. The fact that my report card habitually says 'Too social in class' doesn't make me confident teachers are going to be lining up to write me the recommendation.
<em>Rigor Of Classes</em>: Although above the norm of Penn State, Maryland, or Santa Clara - UCLA and UCB won't be impressed at all with only 2 freshman honors courses and 2 sophomore honors classes. The 4.5 honors/AP classes from Junior year will salvage something hopefully (and the 2.5/3.5 honors/2 AP classes senior year isn't shabby considering that schedule is taylor-made for my strengths so I should put up my best numbers.
Work experience: Despite co-founding a small software development company, I currently haven't held a real taxed job (although I intend to work at the local pool next summer).
Volunteer work: ~100 hours w/ Mentally Handicapped, Youth Athletics, & Poverty-Stricken Communities... not a huge number by any means though</p>

<p><strong>Flaws</strong>: Class rank will likely only finish ~40
<em>Spotty attendance record</em>: ~30 School tardies over Frosh-Junior year (added a few because they're bound to happen again. I live 14 miles from my school and traffic is deadly inconsistent; I can make it to school in less than 20 minutes or it can taken nearly an hour).
<em>~25 detentions over the course of Freshman-Junior year</em>
<em>Only 3 AP classes</em> and 1 taken at the time of application
<em>State residency</em>: I have no interest in staying in state but do want to go public
<em>No alumni/ae relations</em> to any of the schools below</p>

<p><em>Desired colleges</em> (Range of online likelihood percentiles) (In order of current want)
UCLA (49%-63%) [dream school]
Penn State (76%-97%) [most likely to attend]
UCB (39%-70%) [dream school]
Michigan (60%-62%) [dream school]
Wisconsin (44%-65%) [interested in]
Minnesota (60%-74%) [interested in]
Maryland (50%-61%) [safety school]
Santa Clara (85%-99%) [safety school]
Iowa (90%-99%) [safer than safe - the lower half of my school feeds in there]</p>

<p>*For anybody who read all that, I appreciate it big time. A few minutes of your time could be so useful for my future. Thanks</p>

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<p>-Out of state students only receive extra GPA points for AP or IB courses, not for honors courses. Only your AP Stats course qualifies for a bonus GPA point.
-You do not have to “convert” your grades. Enter your actual numeric grade. Do not add “honors” points.
-UC GPA is figured on 10th and 11th grade A-G courses only. P.E, Religion, Health are not A-G courses, and will not be included in the total.
-Classes taken in your senior year fulfill A-G requirements. Taking your VPA senior year is fine.
-All students in California also have required PE and Health classes for graduation. Many California high schools have 6-period days. Your school’s 8-period days and required classes are not a disadvantage.</p>

<p>-The UCs cost almost $50,000/year for out of state students.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/scholarship_reqs.html[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/scholarship_reqs.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/subject_reqs.html[/url]”>http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/admissions/undergrad_adm/paths_to_adm/freshman/subject_reqs.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>Thanks, that cleared some stuff up.
*The good:
•It’s a relief the VPA can be taken senior year.
*The bad:
•The UC-GPA system not acknowledging 6 honors courses (between 10th-11th).
*What I’m Still Confused About:
•When you say enter my numeric grades, I don’t understand where you expect me to do so. On the UC sites they have a calculator that asks for A/B values, not numerical.</p>

<p>•I was not aware that California had 6 period days that require PE and Health classes. I question your source for that because, assuming they need to fill the 11 a-g courses as well, it’s not possible for them to have the a-g 11, PE, and Health over the course of 2 years. As far as my area goes, 8 is quite low - I know my town public school has 10 periods a day (1 of which is lunch, but they also do not have required religion). The next town over has the same system as well. My school, 14 miles away, is the only one I have heard of within 25 miles short of 9 periods and it is also the only to require religion (and health). Furthermore, Illinois is the only state requiring PE a semester a year, a simple google search will show that (or Supersize me).
•I am aware of the cost of the UCs as well, and am lucky enough to be in a situation where (as of now) I can afford those costs.
Thanks again, I would just like some elaboration on your claim Cali schools only have 6 periods and also where I would type in the numerical grades…</p>

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<p>The A-G course requirements are fulfilled in 9th - 12th grade. Only the UC GPA calculation is limited to 10th and 11th.</p>

<p>On the application, you will enter your numeric grades. For the eligibilty calculator, use letter grades. Use 70 - 79 = C, 80 - 89 = B, 90 - 100 = A. For GPA points, C=2, B=3, A=4. Projecting same grades second semester 11th, your UC GPA appears to be 3.5</p>

<p>10th:
Phys A B
Alg B B
Hist A A
Eng A A</p>

<p>11th:
Span B B
Pre-Calc B B
AP Stats B B (plus 2 bonus GPA pts)
Econ A A
Geog B
Eng B B
Chem A A</p>

<p>A’s 9 X 4 = 36 GPA pts
B’s 12 X 3 = 36pts
Bonus 2 pts</p>

<p>= 74 GPA pts / 21 semesters = 3.52 UC GPA</p>

<p>Given the average UC GPA of accepted students at UCLA and UCB is 4.2, both would be very high reaches for you.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the help but you mixed up a few of my grades if using the 90-100 scale opposed to my school’s scale:
10th:
Phys A B -> A A (B was a 90, A by public school measures)
Alg B B -> A A (They were 91 and 92, both As by public school measures)
Hist A A -> A A
Eng A A -> A A
*You forgot Spanish -> A B -> A B
11th:
Span B B -> B B [If I had the other teacher I’d be upper-90s. damn]
Pre-Calc B B -> A A (One poor test has my grade at 88 now, it should be 90+ by Dec. tho)
AP Stats B B (plus 2 bonus GPA pts) -> A A (Low 90s now, only because I lost a take-home test. I should finish mid-90s in this class)
Econ A A -> A (Only one semester)
Geog B -> A (Geography will actually be my easiest class all year)
Eng B B ->A A (Should finish in low 90s, definitely should second semester considering the 30-page Essay is do during first semester and after that it’s a breeze)</p>

<h2>Chem A A -> A A</h2>

<p>That comes out to an 3.95 (83/21 + Stats point) when it is all said and done (If you are correct about the 90-100 system being used instead of my school’s own wierd system). Both are still reaches but not impossible. That is quite irrating that it will be a notch below 4 when it could have been 4.48 (94/21) if they recognized honors from out of state. Looks like I have my work cut out for me come SAT time (that or a one-way ticket to Happy Valley, which I feel quite confident about considering my ACT/SAT will be well above there OOS average and my GPA is above there OOS average as well)… Thanks a lot for the help</p>

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<p>

You are incorrect. The UC GPA only includes up to 4 year-long courses of AP/IB/Honors bonus GPA for ANY students, in-state or out of state, and only up to two in 10th grade. In-state students like my daughter, who took 10 AP courses and 6 honors courses, still only receive the bonus GPA for four year-long courses. </p>

<p>UCLA and UCB receive approximately 50,000 applications each. Over half of those applicants (25,000+ at each campus) will have over a 4.0 UC GPA with a much more rigorous course load than yours. Whatever site that gave you up to a 70% “chance” of being accepted to either is not a useful site. I applaud your confidence in light of the reality.</p>

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<p>“You are incorrect. The UC GPA only includes up to 4 year-long courses of AP/IB/Honors bonus GPA for ANY students, in-state or out of state, and only up to two in 10th grade.”
•I would have reached an 89/21 then, which is a 4.24. It’s not actually 4-long courses but a seperate 8-semester limit, if I recall correctly. Still, my [if in-state] 4.24 would have been much better then the 3.95 (and a hell lot better then your calculated 3.5).</p>

<p>“In-state students like my daughter, who took 10 AP courses and 6 honors courses, still only receive the bonus GPA for four year-long courses.”
•She still gets 8 semesters of extra points plus the overwhelming advantage of in-state residency. If she stayed afloat (avoided grades in the 70s) she should still be in a good situation. Colleges don’t ignore AP classes or AP tests because there are too many: the GPA is only one of the facilities that universities (including UCLA and UCB) look at.</p>

<p>•“UCLA and UCB receive approximately 50,000 applications each. Over half of those applicants (25,000+) will have over a 4.0 UC GPA with a much more rigorous course load than yours.”
There is no need for personal attacks, bitterness, or pessimism. The fact you insulted my course load is ironic in that your daughter 16 total advanced classes while I will finish with 13-14 despite limited circumstances (yes, only 3 or 4 will be AP, but my school doesn’t offer that many AP classes. That is one of the downfalls of going to a parochial school that is selective on who they admit). Another downfall is the fact that classes are generally much more difficult then public school classes. I have a friend who is #1 out of 600 at my local public school and in middle school we had every class together for 3 years with virtually the same grades. The teachers and classes are more demanding here. For the sake of this argument, I will mention once again the fact that Illinois’ PE-law (not California, despite your unsourced claim) combined with my school’s mandatory religion classes (and Health) costs me a grand total of 11 of my 64 High School semesters. Out of those remaining 53, 8 more are used for Study Hall, leaving 45 remaining. Out of those 45 semesters, 24 are/will be taken in honors courses. 8 more are in honors-level English courses; we follow the same curriculum as the honors students. My counseler advised me to drop one of my honors before Freshman year began - I chose English. The workload is the same with slightly difficult grading (you normally don’t have 30 page-papers due in your non-rigorous classes, eh? Do not insult the rigor of my schedule, especially if you account my EC’s - assistant coaching youth basketball weekly started shortly (and head coaching next year), weekly bowling, evergreen, and philosophy clubs. Shortly monthly ping pong club tournaments will be added that I will be in charge of. On top of that I have had the rigorous persistence to do very well on the NM test (somewhere around 220 is my guess, although scores haven’t arrived yet). I’ve started a business, am learning a coding language (Objective C and Cocoa - not exact cakewalks) because I want to go into software engineering and will learn Java next year though an honors class at school. More so, I am staying thoroughly active in extracurriculars. On top of ALL those “un-rigorous” activities, I maintain a solid social life (for some proof on that one, you can notice I ran for Class President last year and won). I’m sorry to go on a rant, but I don’t like to be insulted like that, especially considering how much I truly do have going on. IF I WAS A REAL ******* NOW, I would ask if your daughter has ever started a club, or participates in 3 weekly, or helps children by coaching, or even how she did on the ACT or SAT… But I have some decency inside of me and will not insult her like you have attacked me. I am not attacking your daughter but I am trying to point out the fact that a GPA is not the key to acceptance. Colleges look for extracurriculars, community involvement, ST scores, and school involvement, etc.</p>

<p>“Whatever site that gave you up to a 70% “chance” of being accepted to either is not a useful site. I applaud your confidence in light of the reality.”</p>

<p>I checked several sites, notice the range. Some said my chances are as low as 39%. Although they do not have a difference from in-state to out-of-state projections, it shows that I have a little bit of reason to be optimistic - and lets not forget, my resume looks righteously more impressive in every other state that is not California, GPA-wise.</p>

<p>I appreciate the help you gave earlier, but I advise you to think before you insult somebody like that, especially when the information that contradicts your statement is a scroll away.</p>

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<p>It is so kind of you to educate me on the admissions policies at UCB and UCLA. Having been born and raised in California, attended California high schools, graduated from a California public university, having my daughter accepted at both UCB and UCLA, and having worked for two years in the recruiting office of a California public university certainly does not give me the expertise in California public university admissions policies that you so clearly have.</p>

<p>The confidence that your academic record will outshine all of the top students in California, a state of over 36 million people, is impressive. Of course you are aware that 99% of accepted students at UCB and UCLA rank in the top 10% of their class. But then you have made it clear that you feel your high school is superior to virtually all California high schools, just as you feel you are superior to California’s top students, so perhaps they will make an exception for you. Best of luck to you.</p>

9

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<p>Well, some of us actually live in California. And have children who currently attend California schools. We might even have attended California high schools ourselves, back in the day. </p>

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<p>OP, what alamemom wrote is not a personal attack. It’s a simple statement of fact. Both UCLA and UCB attract a large number of applicants who have taken large numbers of AP and UC-certified honors courses. By UC’s own definition, these students took much more rigorous course loads than yours. Many of these students also have significant ECs.</p>

<p>You owe alamemom an apology. Her answers and advice were spot-on. Your response was to denigrate her, her knowledge, and her daughter. Regardless of how angry you felt, lashing out at people who are trying to answer your questions isn’t going to help you. Surely your parochial school taught you something about turning the other cheek?</p>

10

<p>After looking back at what alememom said I realized I took it much too personally. What really sparked my was the “in light of reality” comment; I may not fully agree based off past students from my school and there acceptance to California schools but I shouldn’t have gone on such a rant. That said, I didn’t intend to rant for that long, to come off that angry, or to make any personal attacks. Looking back, I can see how easily the tone of what I wrote could differ from what I intended (argumentative). I apologize alememom, and you should know I was not try to criticize you or your daughter: only pointing out the fact colleges appreciate other qualities except a GPA scoring system (Honestly, I was much more frustrated at the system then you, and although I wasn’t trying to attack you, you sort of took the short side on that one).</p>

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<p>No problem.
Good luck with your applications.</p>

12

<p>You do not mention what major you plan. The vast majority of majors do not accept recommendations. Also, UCB and UCLA do accept plenty of people who are not 4.0 plus students. That said, many of those may be from a disadvantaged background, like 1st generation college, or from an inner city “bad” school, or very low income. From your description, it seems you are more “advantaged” ie, private school. Write a great essay, and have some other excellent options. Also, you can clarify the grading system in the 3rd, optional essay.</p>

<p>Budget cuts may play a factor here. Will UCB and UCLA take more out of state students so they can get the out of state money? Maybe, who knows? Word is that all CA state schools will be accepting fewer bodies. And, there are MANY in state transfer students to be accommodated, so that may be a factor as well. I think there is no way to know what anyone’s chances are for the top UC’s this year, so ignore all the websites. Good luck! And good luck getting your required classes if you do get in. I’m hearing horror stories from current students.</p>

13

<p>“1) Does California assume a ‘90-100 A, 80-89 B, etc.’ system, or will I be screwed by my schools graduated system in which a 93 is the lowest possible A (which yields a non-honor 4, and a 4.14 for a 94, 4.28 for a 95, etc.)? I have a lot of low 90-grades that really haven’t caused alarm before because of our graduated system that turns those low 90-grades into ~3.8 [+ an honor point for most ~ 4.8]… So will UC schools see the low 90s and treat it them as As (4.00/5.00) or as Bs (3.00/4.00)?”</p>

<p>You might ask your schools guidance counselors what the UCs did with the grades when dealing with alumni from your school. I know my daughter’s public California high school also considers a 92 a B+. I know the UCs consider the grades she got on her transcripts the grades used for calculating GPA. So for her school, a 92 in a non-AP class was 3 points. </p>

<p>And yes, her high school requires 5 semester of PE/Health to graduate, and has 8 possible periods.</p>

<p>“Which class would be more appealing to colleges - Spanish IV or Honors Physics? (Consider I have taken 4 years of language prior, 3 of which were Spanish, and 2 of those were honors, also assume I would get a B in both (but Honors Physics would yield an extra point to turn it’s non-UC GPA ~ 4.4?”</p>

<p>Applications for UCs are due in late November. Senior year grades are not considered in the acceptance decision. Senior year transcripts are not requested until after acceptance, to ensure you have kept your grades up. So it doesn’t matter for grades. It will matter for rigor, but unless one of those classes is an AP class, they would be considered even. Are you thinking of either Spanish or Engineering/Physics as a major? If so then it might make a difference.</p>

<p>On the plus side, your spotty attendance record, detentions, and less than stellar recommendations will probably not hurt you, as with 50,000 applications they tend to look at GPA and test scores, and only if those fall into range do they look at essays and ECs. Legacies are never considered in California public schools.</p>

<p>On the minus side even if you recalculate your grades on the 90-100 scale, your GPA and test scores are a bit on the low side for UCLA and UCB. Not impossible, but not likely.</p>