<p>My son is a rising senior and considering applying to Haverford. He has not visited, as it's about 1200 miles away, but he may visit as the time draws closer to make a decision.</p>
<p>Would you kindly comment on whether it would be a good fit? He has excellent stats, so I'm not too worried about admission, more about personality fit. He's looking for a college that meets this general description:</p>
<ul>
<li> Emphasizes non-competitive or individual sports over football, etc.</li>
<li> A good place for a science geek, but not a "geek school" where someone can't branch out into languages, politics, Classics, etc.</li>
<li> Caters to nice, smart kids as opposed to the "frat boy" or "jock" type (unless they also happen to be nice, smart kids).</li>
<li> Intimate atmosphere where people really get to know and support one another, but still connected to the surrounding community, so that it doesn't feel isolated.</li>
<li> World-class research opportunities.</li>
<li> A record of sending students to top graduate schools in the sciences.</li>
<li> Serious academics, but not a pressure-cooker where kids don't have time to explore other interests.</li>
</ul>
<p>I think this describes Haverford, but I'm not sure, so I'm asking here. Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>Also, what makes Haverford different from other top liberal-arts colleges? I’m wondering specifically about how it compares to Swarthmore, Carleton, Macalester, and Grinnell. These colleges all seem to fit the same basic profile, as far as I can tell, but I’m sure there are differences I’m not aware of. Thanks again!</p>
<p>Ooh, sorry, one last detail. He is utterly non-competitive with other people, but highly motivated to outdo himself. A school where people compete for grades and high starting salaries would be a very bad match for him. On the other hand, a school where people push themselves to learn all they can, just for learning’s sake, would be an excellent match. I know not all schools are like that. How about Haverford?</p>
<p>It sounds like it should be a really good fit, but I’m not too sure about the town interactions, because even though it’s really close to Philly, it’s still fairly removed. I would just caution you not to assume that he will get in, because Haverford’s a very selective school, and applicant pools are getting increasingly more competitive.</p>
<p>mantori.suzuki – When I visited last fall, I was interviewed by a student and he said (without prompt) that outward competition is not a factor at Haverford. He mentioned that he only knew the GPAs of a couple of his close friends, and even that was because they were discussing and applying to graduate schools. </p>
<p>Sounds like a great match for Haverford. Probably Swarthmore as well. Can’t speak to the other schools. I agree with sirensong’s assessment of the applicant pool these days. Too many outstanding students applying to the same group of schools for all of them to be admitted.</p>
<p>Yep, sounds like a really good fit and I think he should visit. As the other posters have said, it is a very strong applicant pool. Swarthmore sounds like another possibility although it has a reputation of being a bit more of a pressure cooker. </p>
<p>I imagine Carleton, Macalester and Grinnell as pretty similar. However, with Haverford and Swarthmore, he would be close to Philadelphia… plus New York is doable as a day trip.</p>
<p>mantori.suzuki: I think Haverford fits your description. Interestingly enough, I applied to Swarthmore, Macalester, Grinnell, and Carleton too, but not Haverford. I think I was pretty interested in a similar kind of school as your son. Grinnell and Carleton are more rurally located than the other schools. Macalester is less so, but I think it is still quite far from the major cities in Minnesota. One of the advantages of going to Swarthmore or Haverford is that they are in the mid-Atlantic (technically not the northeast), so traveling to New York City and Washington, D.C. is more available. During one of the breaks I went to see my sister who lived in Connecticut and I went to visit my friends at Columbia. I also got to explore New York City, which was awesome, because I had never been there. </p>
<p>I think the workload at Haverford and the other schools is quite less than at Swarthmore. My friend at Swarthmore has a sister who goes to Haverford, and when my friend visited, he said that people at Haverford generally had more free time and could “have more fun.” </p>
<p>I really recommend that you visit all these schools if you can. If you visit Haverford, you should definitely check out Swarthmore, which is so close.</p>
<p>It’s nice that the verdict appears to be unanimous!</p>
<p>A few replies:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>Visiting Haverford and Swarthmore at the same time sounds like a good idea.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t know that he will be admitted, but his stats are great. I’m sure it will come down to essays, recommendations, etc.</p></li>
<li><p>Macalester is actually in St. Paul, which is a pretty big city and borders on Minneapolis, which is even bigger (metro area ~3.5 million).</p></li>
</ul>
<p>dchow08, what your friend said sounds good to me. If I were choosing a school for my son, I’d pick one that’s a little more laid-back, as long as it was still strong academically. The pressure-cooker thing scares me. But that’s just me; it’s my son who has to decide for himself, of course.</p>
<p>I think your son will find what he’s looking for at Haverford. IMHO, I think Carleton and Haverford are very, very similar. Especially with an interest in the sciences, those two can’t be beat.</p>
<p>I think these videos reflect the colleges quite accurately:</p>
<p>Great links, thanks! I’ve watched the Haverford videos and will watch the Carleton videos from home later. I’m getting excited about Haverford! Maybe Carleton, too!</p>
<p>You say : “I don’t know that he will be admitted, but his stats are great. I’m sure it will come down to essays, recommendations, etc.”</p>
<p>Don’t be naive, as most of us initially are. It comes down to which “pieces of the puzzle” each school needs to fill. Most applicants to these schools are well qualified and most are not accepted. Are you from an underrepresented state? Public or private high school? Are you an underrepresented minority? Are you a recruited athlete or musician? Do you have legacy? I believe that these are the deciding factors among very qualified applicants.</p>
<p>I’m not worried about it. He’ll apply to the schools he likes best, and either he’ll be admitted or he won’t. I think he has a good chance of being admitted to some top schools. None of them are a given. Whatever happens, happens. But for what it’s worth, the answers to your questions are yes, public, doubt it, no, and no. (Are Asian-Americans underrepresented? I don’t think so, but maybe it depends on the school.)</p>
<p>I believe that being Asian-American is a disadvantage to students applying to top schools these days. Too many qualified Asian-Americans trying to fit into the “Asian-American” piece of the puzzle. Geographic diversity is a huge plus. Better to be one of ten kids applying from an underrepresented state than to be one of one thousand applying from the states in the northeast. It is a shocking process -at least for most of us.</p>
<p>I believe you, but still I am not panicking. I know there are some kids who are from private schools, white, no legacy, and not a musician or athlete who are admitted to Haverford and other top schools as well. My son has as good a chance as any of them. And again, if he applies and is not admitted, oh well. He’ll take his next choice. I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I don’t think these are reasons not to apply. They are just reasons not to get our hopes up too high, but that’s okay. I would take the same attitude toward Harvard, or toward the University of Wyoming for that matter.</p>
<p>Edit: Also, I’m pretty sure our state is way, way underrepresented at almost any college outside of our state. Maybe even IN our own state. Not too many college graduates out here in the middle of nowhere.</p>
<p>Hooray for Wyoming! I didn’t mean to discourage you from applying to Haverford or to any college. I have seen students going to large state schools (which they really did not want to attend) because they were rejected or waitlisted at the 3-4 top colleges that they applied to. It would be good to avoid this situation. But none of them were applying from Wyoming.</p>
<p>In one of Loren Pope’s books, either “Looking Beyond the Ivy League”, or in “40 Colleges that Change Lives,” he has an interesting section on the impact that current admissions policies have on Asian-Americans.</p>
<p>First, to the initial poster, your son is looking for a very academic college where the students compete with themselves and are not grade grubbers or uber-competitive. While that describes Haverford to a tee, I can’t imagine how terrible American society would be if there was only one or even only 20 colleges out there that fit that description and encouraged that type of environment. Regarding exceptional sciences and research opportunities, the numbers drop off a bit with HC at the top/close to the top but the difference in academic experience though is not worth noting. Yes, HC has the only stem cell research lab among LACs, its president is an MD/PhD from Yale and there are 2 NIH funded labs on campus as well while other LACs have none, and HC is #1 with HHMI grants… but you don’t need to work in an NIH lab to learn undergraduate science or get into an amazing graduate program. </p>
<p>Similarly, Dchow, can you imagine the dire straights America would be in if Swat (only 330 graduates annually) worked its students to the level you describe that is “significantly” much more so than Haverford or Carleton and, by extrapolation, 99% of other colleges as these schools are already considered at the top in terms of “academic” college experiences? The differences are not great among the top 20 colleges/universities or not as great as you’d like to believe. I don’t discount that expectations are stratospheric at Swat, but that doesn’t mean that they are not sky high elsewhere. If you don’t believe me, ask your chairman of chemistry and I believe the head of Swat’s anthro/sociology department as well if they think the work they shell out to you is more than what they experienced at HC</p>
<p>… I for one can vouch that HC’s unique curriculum of organic chemistry freshman year and general chemistry squeezed into 1 semester soph year with advanced topics and then quantum chemistry soph year can bring tears to anyone…</p>
Maybe even IN our own state. Not too many college graduates out here in the middle of nowhere.</p>